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Nintendo Kid posted:There are always minor tasks that are "worth doing". Do poo poo like keep the computer labs open later get the night owl students to cover the extra shifts. It results in a school that's more useful. I'm not sure what student employment for most public universities looks like, but I would assume you can only justify so many jobs that are literally just a person sitting there.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:31
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Lotka Volterra posted:I assume campus jobs won't/can't be made available to everyone at large state schools. Why? There's plenty of that kind of poo poo to go around. Various labs, libraries, etc., many of which can have extended hours if you assume a large student job need. Dorms need front desk staff as well. Also assume every single professor is given a minimum of three undergrad research assistants. Lab tech roles can exist for science and engineering majors as well. Work/study availability is unlikely to be a sticking point - colleges have no problem finding ways to use that kind of labor.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:32
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I am poor and on disability which trumps your "just poor" and I think the program would be excellent so I win this argument because I am the poorest.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:32
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Lotka Volterra posted:I'm not sure what student employment for most public universities looks like, but I would assume you can only justify so many jobs that are literally just a person sitting there. It's not about justification or even actual work, it's about placating the conservatives who think that people will frivolously get too much education or whatever. Conservatives existing means sometimes you have to do a little bit of dumbass poo poo to get a better policy passed.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:32
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I think that we should force people to work for a corporation for free for a full year or in a salt mine before they get education. My opinion is more valid because I am poor and disabled.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:33
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Hmm yes I wonder what age bracket you're placating with all of these requirements. It gets back to my original loving point.Hollismason posted:I think that we should force people to work for a corporation for free for a full year or in a salt mine before they get education. My opinion is more valid because I am poor and disabled. It's calling not humiliating the poor by reminding of them of their economic status or wealth. No one should live beneath their own dignity.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:34
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Lotka Volterra posted:I'm not sure what student employment for most public universities looks like, but I would assume you can only justify so many jobs that are literally just a person sitting there. If you're willing to get rid of your existing groundskeeper staff there's a ton of jobs to do. I might be biased though as I'm from a land grant university.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:34
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zoux posted:I'm kind of surprised people are getting hung up on this 10 hours thing, it's a pretty minor provision. It's a difference between Hillary's and Bernie's plans, so we must holy war forever over it. I have to say though, I liked Bernie's explanation of public tuition being an analogue to public education a hundred years ago.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:34
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computer parts posted:If you're willing to get rid of your existing groundskeeper staff there's a ton of jobs to do. What that your sole experience is grounds to justify your views and make them more correct than others?
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Oct 14, 2015 22:35
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Anyone who thinks it's possible to run out of work has never been in the military. There's always room for another receptionist or a roving patrol. And we can always paint things, MURALS EVERYWHERE!
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Oct 14, 2015 22:35
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Lotka Volterra posted:I'm not sure what student employment for most public universities looks like, but I would assume you can only justify so many jobs that are literally just a person sitting there. In my university, Rutgers, the state uni of NJ, nearly all the work study stuff was do nothing sit there jobs. You would only have to like do something maybe once a shift - my job was to man this little video games/movies rental thing the student center had which barely anyone used. I ended up with a bunch of extra money beyond college costs just doing that for like 5-10 hours a week depending on the week, it was cush. Dr. Arbitrary posted:Anyone who thinks it's possible to run out of work has never been in the military. There's always room for another receptionist or a roving patrol. And we can always paint things, MURALS EVERYWHERE! Schools paying student artists to paint up murals and poo poo are great. Most of the time it even looks good so it's a bonus.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:37
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Kalman posted:Why? There's plenty of that kind of poo poo to go around. Various labs, libraries, etc., many of which can have extended hours if you assume a large student job need. Dorms need front desk staff as well. Also assume every single professor is given a minimum of three undergrad research assistants. Lab tech roles can exist for science and engineering majors as well. This assumes that labs can take extra students. Unfortunately funding for student researchers is paid for out of your grant, not by the university itself. It's why a lot of undergrad assistants work for credit as part of an independent study. If the University started counting that as employment then that could be possible. There is the joking suggestion made by computer parts, too, that jobs previously handled by members of the community will go to students to pay for tuition, which would be a not great result. I understand if the suggestion is to create a bunch of low-effort jobs that probably won't require much of any kind of actual work, but that's a lot of jobs we're talking about. Aves Maria! fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 22:41
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Kalman posted:Seriously. Look at that scrub who couldn't find someone to pay for him to get an aerospace engineering PhD. Yeah who gets a science PhD without a stipend I didn't even know that was a thing you could do. In fairness to his point obviously not all undergrad programs are the same and the relative cost of 10 hours a week getting an international business degree at your state's local party school is not the same as 10 hours a week in an engineering or architecture program or what have you. Also, is there any provision that says "if you can finish in three years you don't have to work," since you're saving a year of tuition? She doesn't define who is making the jobs, just nebulously says that there will be federal money for those who comply. Can labs at research universities offer paid undergraduate researcher slots and get them? Can universities fund their existing RA/TA programs with federal money? Do co-ops count?
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Oct 14, 2015 22:42
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 quote:NEW HARTFORD, N.Y. (AP) — A central New York couple has been charged with fatally beating their 19-year-old son inside a church and four fellow church members have been charged with assault in an attack that also left the young man’s brother severely injured, police said Tuesday. Uh... Exorcism gone wrong?
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Oct 14, 2015 22:43
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You can always employ some people in digging up holes, other people in counting them, and yet others in filling them up.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:43
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Kalman posted:Seriously. Look at that scrub who couldn't find someone to pay for him to get an aerospace engineering PhD. I don't pay tuition and I get paid for my work. I don't know where you got that. My incorrect has linits in what they want to pay because of benefits, even if I get funding through AFOSR.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:44
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A Winner is Jew posted:and I'm probably the richest person/came from a family with the most money that posts in DnD. nah
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Oct 14, 2015 22:45
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Luigi Thirty posted:
I'll go ahead and call conversion therapy gone wrong of some type or some other horrible poo poo.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:46
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tehllama posted:Yeah who gets a science PhD without a stipend I didn't even know that was a thing you could do. A lot of what makes an engineering degree hard is trying to do it in 4 years (even if most sane institutions look at 6 year rates). There's no reason why you couldn't extend the recommended length of time for those degrees, especially if college is free.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:47
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Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the 10 hours also include working at like a starbucks or something?
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Oct 14, 2015 22:47
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What if instead we made all colleges free but every year we held a lottery and one student from each school was publicly executed?
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Oct 14, 2015 22:48
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tehllama posted:Yeah who gets a science PhD without a stipend I didn't even know that was a thing you could do. The 10 hours is not about tuition. It's about everything else: class fees, books, food, housing, additional materials for certain degrees (e.g. art students will need materials for their preferred media). The point is that it shouldn't cost more than you can get from 10 hours of entry level work a week to afford your entire life during college. So you're not saving any tuition by getting done in three years, since the tuition is 0 regardless.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:49
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Hollismason posted:What if instead we made all colleges free but every year we held a lottery and one student from each school was publicly executed? We practically have that now!
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Oct 14, 2015 22:49
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"college students need more skin in the game "
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Oct 14, 2015 22:50
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A Winner is Jew posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the 10 hours also include working at like a starbucks or something? Potentially. I'm not actually certain how 10 hrs of work is being defined which has led to my wariness about the plan. If 10 hours of work includes things like spending time doing (what would otherwise be free) work in a lab or for a professor, or volunteering for student groups/the university itself then I'd be much less opposed to the idea.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:50
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Kalman posted:Why? There's plenty of that kind of poo poo to go around. Various labs, libraries, etc., many of which can have extended hours if you assume a large student job need. Dorms need front desk staff as well. Also assume every single professor is given a minimum of three undergrad research assistants. Lab tech roles can exist for science and engineering majors as well. Speaking as a grad student, why would you do this? What did we ever do to you?  It's hard enough with one of them running around, any more than that and they'll start daring each other to eat the cadmium salts.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:51
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Lotka Volterra posted:I assume campus jobs won't/can't be made available to everyone at large state schools. Yeah this is the funny thing about this is my school of thousands of students maybe at most had 100 campus jobs that only went to people of you knew some one working it already. And working 10 hours a week there was considered lavish.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:51
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computer parts posted:If you're willing to get rid of your existing groundskeeper staff there's a ton of jobs to do. It's good to see you're finally extending your horizons past primary education, Mr. Speaker.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:51
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Hollismason posted:What if instead we made all colleges free but every year we held a lottery and one student from each school was publicly executed? What method of execution are we talking about here? showbiz_liz posted:We practically have that now! Yeah, if it's some lame "gunned down by police" thing then gently caress that. Things like being blown from a fun, keelhauling, or scaphism I'm open to though.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:52
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Nolanar posted:Speaking as a grad student, why would you do this? What did we ever do to you? Think of it as early-career management experience.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:53
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Nolanar posted:Speaking as a grad student, why would you do this? What did we ever do to you? No significant scientific research would ever get done without undergrads. No grad student wants to spend 40 hours/wk doing the scut work that their cadre of undergrads does (mostly) for free.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:53
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PHD students can be certified and sworn police officers for cheap, hell I'm just an ideas guy
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Oct 14, 2015 22:54
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A Winner is Jew posted:What method of execution are we talking about here? Running on a treadmill till they collapse and fall into the pit of screaming horrors.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:57
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Luigi Thirty posted:
something like that happened in Australia like 10 years ago. the lady was schizophrenic but her husband and some 20 year old "evengelical" and some friends. they basicaly punched her in the throat until she died. http://thedollop.libsyn.com/76-australian-exorcists-live-with-wil-anderson a good podcast on the incident.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:58
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Lotka Volterra posted:No significant scientific research would ever get done without undergrads. No grad student wants to spend 40 hours/wk doing the scut work that their cadre of undergrads does (mostly) for free. That's highly field-dependent.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:59
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Life sciences are the only sciences that matter imo
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Oct 14, 2015 23:00
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The 10 hour work requirement makes Hillary's plan much more likely to pass in congress since it makes the students have "skin in the game". Bernie Sanders always talks about this stuff as if he can just ram it through congress. His perfect visions of these plans have no chance in today's congress. Not that Hillary's do either, but hers have a greater chance.
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Oct 14, 2015 23:05
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Lotka Volterra posted:Life sciences are the only sciences that matter imo It sort of depends on the consistency/requirements of the work as well, I once had to spend so much time teaching undergrads identifications that I would literally have saved myself time telling them to go home. Granted, they had no qualifications in my field and only worked 3/hrs a week. Wasn't my idea  .
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Oct 14, 2015 23:11
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People don't understand that universities are already insanely profitable and even basically don't have to pay their students or even professors to dole out papers that attract even more money and prestige. Hell even the private sector can take a massive tax break for it when they offer money.
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Oct 14, 2015 23:11
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Mitt Romney posted:Bernie Sanders always talks about this stuff as if he can just ram it through congress. Yes, Bernard "Bernie" Sanders is constantly going on about how easy it will be to effect change.
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Oct 14, 2015 23:12
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