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Flowers For Algeria posted:all of which would contribute to a pacified society and the gradual elimination of this ghastly gun culture. And I agree with you on the gun culture. Have you ever looked at the home furnishings section of a Cabelas or Bass Pro catalog? That poo poo is ghastly. Don't even start me on pink camo. Edit: Stuff like this. This is tacky as hell 
stealie72 fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 20:40
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Reminder for Friday, October 16th 2015 that some 80 people have perished or will perish in the United States of America beause of guns today. There have been a couple shootings on street corners, a bunch of suicides with guns, a few gun-related accidents resulting in death today, and some cops shooting people. A good fraction got killed by people they knew and who had no criminal record. Owning a gun was actually the number 1 cause of death for these people because the injuries that led to most of their deaths were self-inflicted, and some were shot by their own guns. The gun was the reason right? I'm sure there's nothing deeper than that.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:41
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various cheeses posted:Do you also think alcohol and drugs should be banned? They don't exactly bring a lot of benefits to society, do they? How far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go? I'm assuming it's just guns you hate, because you assume every last gun owner is some amalgam of a school shooter, fat racist redneck, a gang banger, and an inept retard first placing his hand on a firearm. No, because banning them would not be of general social benefit, unlike banning firearms.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:44
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Tezzor posted:No, because banning them would not be of general social benefit, unlike banning firearms. How many people die every year from alcohol and drug related causes? How many benefits are there to offset keeping them legal?
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Oct 16, 2015 20:45
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Ozmiander posted:I love the argument that these crimes happened BECAUSE OF GUNS. Not because someone wanted to kill themself, others, etc. Some significant fraction of those deaths did in fact happen because of guns, in the sense that if the assailant did not have a gun they would have been unable or unwilling to kill someone.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:45
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If gun owners get cancer do they resign themselves to the fate they've got, knowing full well that's it's not the cancer that's killing them, it's themselves, because cancer doesn't kill people, people with cancer kill people (with cancer)
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Oct 16, 2015 20:46
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Tezzor posted:Some significant fraction of those deaths did in fact happen because of guns, in the sense that if the assailant did not have a gun they would have been unable or unwilling to kill someone. You realize that a $1 Walmart knife is statistically more deadly than a pistol, right?
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Oct 16, 2015 20:46
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Ozmiander posted:How many people die every year from alcohol and drug related causes? How many benefits are there to offset keeping them legal? Unlike banning alcohol and drugs, banning guns (or severely regulating them) is an unqualified success everywhere in the developed world.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:47
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Tezzor posted:Some significant fraction of those deaths did in fact happen because of guns, in the sense that if the assailant did not have a gun they would have been unable or unwilling to kill someone. Yes you see guns infect the mind and make you kill KILL KILL
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Oct 16, 2015 20:47
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Ozmiander posted:You realize that a $1 Walmart knife is statistically more deadly than a pistol, right? You realize that us hate beauty, us love ugliness, and is big crime to make anything perfect on Bizarro World, right?
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Oct 16, 2015 20:48
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Tezzor posted:Unlike banning alcohol and drugs, banning guns (or severely regulating them) is an unqualified success everywhere in the developed world. Various Cheeses: Don't forget to add "And prohibition was successful" to your list of things you learned.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:49
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-Troika- posted:The gun control people in this thread seem to spend far more time thinking about what if murder scenarios and have far more of a fascination with weapons, judging by what's been posted. No you are
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Oct 16, 2015 20:49
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Ozmiander posted:You realize that a $1 Walmart knife is statistically more deadly than a pistol, right? Not at all. More deadly than any sort of long gun, including "assault weapons," but pistols are super popular for criming and far outpace cutting as a suicide method.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:49
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Dead Reckoning posted:Not at all. More deadly than any sort of long gun, including "assault weapons," but pistols are super popular for criming and far pace cutting as a suicide method. I was referring more to survivability than likeliness to be attacked with.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:51
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various cheeses posted:Yes you see guns infect the mind and make you kill KILL KILL It's not that they create the motivation to kill, but that they make violence easier and deadlier, so that some percentage of people who committed violence with guns would not have been able or willing to commit that violence without them, or their attempt would have failed or resulted in less grievous injury. Incredibly basic and unavoidably accurate fact.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:51
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various cheeses posted:Yes you see guns infect the mind and make you kill KILL KILL You're being willfully obtuse. Firearms are a more effective method for killing people than the alternatives that might have been used otherwise; you know this, it's why you want to have guns in the first place. Without guns, some of those deaths could have been prevented because a) alternative methods of suicide are more likely to result in failed attempts b) attacks with less effective weaponry might have resulted in the victim's survival in some cases and c) some attackers are cowards who won't commit the crimes they plan to without access to firearms. But by all means go on pretending that only weird mind control could possibly matter.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:52
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Ozmiander posted:I love the argument that these crimes happened BECAUSE OF GUNS. Not because someone wanted to kill themself, others, etc. Flowers For Algeria posted:When a gun fires the bullet that ends a life, the gun is partly responsible for the death. Not guilty, because it is an inanimate object, but responsible. It is involved. It is the cause of the death. The death occurred because of the gun. stealie72 posted:At least you're open about wanting a pacified society. Uhhh yeah what's wrong with that? I thought you'd be happy with less violence, less crime and less violent crime all around? Unless you're actually a criminal, or unless you really want to kill a criminal to show how much of a tough guy you are, it would be a pretty positive goal.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:54
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Ozmiander posted:I was referring more to survivability than likeliness to be attacked with. If $1 knives are better at killing people than $300-$1800 pistols, why do you need guns for self defense? Seems like I just saved you a ton of money. Or you're laughably full of poo poo.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:54
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I respect your rights to believe guns should be gone, but in the end you'll have to take my toys from my COLD. DEAD. HANDS!
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Oct 16, 2015 20:55
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Tezzor posted:If $1 knives are better at killing people than $300-$1800 pistols, why do you need guns for self defense? Seems like I just saved you a ton of money. Or you're laughably full of poo poo. Who says my goal is to kill an attacker, rather than just stop his aggression? It'd be totally awesome if he saw it and either ran, surrendered or was taken down with a non lethal injury.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:56
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Uhhh yeah what's wrong with that? I thought you'd be happy with less violence, less crime and less violent crime all around? Unless you're actually a criminal, or unless you really want to kill a criminal to show how much of a tough guy you are, it would be a pretty positive goal. Ozmiander posted:I respect your rights to believe guns should be gone, but in the end you'll have to take my toys from my COLD. DEAD. HANDS!
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Oct 16, 2015 20:57
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Ddraig posted:If gun owners get cancer do they resign themselves to the fate they've got, knowing full well that's it's not the cancer that's killing them, it's themselves, because cancer doesn't kill people, people with cancer kill people (with cancer) They never resign themselves, they're strong and will never be victims. They usually shoot the cancer until it's dead.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:58
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Did they eventually pry it from his cold, dead hands?
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Oct 16, 2015 20:58
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Since we've established that the weapon does not matter at all, and that guns are actually worse than killing people than knives, how come every army in modern history with any kind of budget has preferred to equip its soldiers with expensive, complicated firearms, and not just with knives? Or, say, boards with nails in them? Or just send them out with their bare hands? Seems extremely improbable that everyone in the world would have have this collective insanity for over the last two centuries, but here we are. Weird
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Oct 16, 2015 20:59
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stealie72 posted:
I haven't started thinking yet, and i don't plan to start now. Ddraig posted:Did they eventually pry it from his cold, dead hands? I literally GISed "Heston's dead hands" first, but didn't find anything.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:00
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Tezzor posted:Since we've established that the weapon does not matter at all, and that guns are actually worse than killing people than knives, how come every army in modern history with any kind of budget has preferred to equip its soldiers with expensive, complicated firearms, and not just with knives? Or, say, boards with nails in them? Or just send them out with their bare hands? Seems extremely improbable that everyone in the world would have have this collective insanity for over the last two centuries, but here we are. Weird Soldiers generally aren't close enough to their enemies to use knives.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:00
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Tezzor posted:Since we've established that the weapon does not matter at all, and that guns are actually worse than killing people than knives, how come every army in modern history with any kind of budget has preferred to equip its soldiers with expensive, complicated firearms, and not just with knives? Or, say, boards with nails in them? Or just send them out with their bare hands? Seems extremely improbable that everyone in the world would have have this collective insanity for over the last two centuries, but here we are. Weird I would pay good money to watch two armies fight with boards with nails.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:01
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Ozmiander posted:Who says my goal is to kill an attacker, rather than just stop his aggression? Wouldn't he be more scareder of your knife and the jutsu that causes it to turn into both a hail of blades and a impenetrable scale armor?
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Oct 16, 2015 21:01
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Ozmiander posted:Soldiers generally aren't close enough to their enemies to use knives. Huh. So...in practice, knives are less useful for killing people than guns?? But you just said the opposite, and the statistics seem to bear out this newer claim. Something doesn't add up here. You're going to jail for a long time.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:03
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Tezzor posted:Huh. So...in practice, knives are less useful for killing people than guns?? But you just said the opposite, and the statistics seem to bear out this newer claim. Something doesn't add up here. You're going to jail for a long time. I said pistol wounds are more survivable than stab wounds. At least use my actual mistakes to make me look dumb, dude.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:04
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stealie72 posted:I think you mean peaceful, not pacified. And unless you have a magic wand to make all the guns disappear, good luck with that. Sorry for the mistake, non-native speaker here. Simply reducing gun availabity and limiting proliferation would greatly contribute. Also lol if you believe that as a gun owner you're protecting anyone's rights, like you're the last line of defense against the criminal hordes or somesuch delusional nonsense.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:04
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Tezzor posted:Suppressors are legal here, and probably easier to get. They require licensing and registration and fees and a background check, just like in those other countries. Sorry, many pages back. Suppressors dont require any of those here in Finland. Except if you are buying a suppressor but you do not have a license for a gun, then you need a license for it.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:04
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Ogmius815 posted:That's hilarious coming from the people who think their shooty toys are so important as to completely determine votes. You just say that because you don't care about guns. What if it was about the 4th amendment instead?
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Oct 16, 2015 21:09
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stealie72 posted:Ironically, we're the ones with the means to protect their right to that belief. Makes you think, doesn't it. Here we can see Hilarious Masturbatory Gun Owner Fantasy #2, in which the gun owner uses his weapon to protect himself from a tyrannical government hell bent on destroying his rights to life, liberty, and property.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:09
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-Troika- posted:You just say that because you don't care about guns. What if it was about the 4th amendment instead? Well, one of those rights involves being able to travel around the country as you please and to be secure from arbitrary police actions. The other involves toys. So you know, not really the same.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:11
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Ogmius815 posted:Here we can see Hilarious Masturbatory Gun Owner Fantasy #2, in which the gun owner uses his weapon to protect himself from a tyrannical government hell bent on destroying his rights to life, liberty, and property. Antis day dream about sun bathing on a pile of demilled guns while touching themselves, confirm or deny.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:12
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Ozmiander posted:I was referring more to survivability than likeliness to be attacked with. Ozmiander posted:I said pistol wounds are more survivable than stab wounds. At least use my actual mistakes to make me look dumb, dude. Hey you remember that time that guy in China stabbed all those people on the exact same day as Sandy Hook? You remember how he stabbed a similar number of people? You remember how none of the stabbing victims died?
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Oct 16, 2015 21:13
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Sorry for the mistake, non-native speaker here. Haha yeah, peaceful society sounds a lot better than pacified society - which brings about the image of some conquered country. The LA riots or the Baltimore riots from last year are pretty good examples of times when yes, you are actually the first line of defense against a horde of angry people. No, you don't go out and shoot them all, but they'll definitely be less inclined to trash your store/house if you're defending it with a gun. It's not often that you need a gun obviously, but if you do end up needing one, you'll be glad you have it.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:13
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Ogmius815 posted:Here we can see Hilarious Masturbatory Gun Owner Fantasy #2, in which the gun owner uses his weapon to protect himself from a tyrannical government hell bent on destroying his rights to life, liberty, and property. Next step: One of you says "lol, like people with guns can stand up to a modern military" while ignoring the US military's past 15 years of adventure in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:14
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Who What Now posted:Hey you remember that time that guy in China stabbed all those people on the exact same day as Sandy Hook? You remember how he stabbed a similar number of people? You remember how none of the stabbing victims died? Probably because he used a chinese knife.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:14
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