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Libluini posted:Keldoclock is one of those people who, if real life were like a video game, would have put all his points at character-generation into the "Obnoxiousness"-stat. I must be cheating because on the android awful app you can make it so that ignored posts don't even show up as " this jerk" placeholders. The only reason I know any of the shitheads on my list are even making GBS threads up a thread is when people quote them or talk about them. And sure, people can argue about ignoring potentially valuable contributions to a discussion but on the other hand keldoclock.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 00:39 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 09:05 |
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SeanBeansShako posted:Back on subject, ROCKET ARTILLERY. Makes a much cooler noise than conventional artillery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjN9Q6YdEDc
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 00:43 |
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SeanBeansShako posted:Back on subject, ROCKET ARTILLERY. The "wargame" franchise would have me believe that it's not very good, as it's scarier than regular artillery but not concentrated enough to do any real damage. This strikes me as probably bullshit for the sake of game balance. Is it?
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 00:59 |
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Splode posted:The "wargame" franchise would have me believe that it's not very good, as it's scarier than regular artillery but not concentrated enough to do any real damage.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 01:19 |
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Splode posted:The "wargame" franchise would have me believe that it's not very good, as it's scarier than regular artillery but not concentrated enough to do any real damage. A Soviet M-31 brigade covered an area of 1200x1000 m with 1152 rockets per salvo, or roughly one rocket per 32 meter by 32 meter square. The safe distance for infantry from a rocket hit was 400 meters.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 01:23 |
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Cythereal posted:You do realize none of these things existed in WW1, right? And the A-H wasn't even issuing cold-weather clothes or enough food? I actually found this post to be a bit informative in a general sense? Sure it doesn't have a direct link to WW1, but it does serve to educate on how weapons require special treatment/design in cold weather conditions.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 01:24 |
Ensign Expendable posted:A Soviet M-31 brigade covered an area of 1200x1000 m with 1152 rockets per salvo, or roughly one rocket per 32 meter by 32 meter square. The safe distance for infantry from a rocket hit was 400 meters. Wow. This is fascinating! I would love to hear more about artillery in general, as well as the training and development of artillery technique and artillerymen (is this a word?) Studying math myself, I've always figured if I were an old-time soldier I would end up in artillery. P.s: I really appreciate the contributions that ensign e, hey gal, etc. make in the history threads. Its reinvigorated my love for history.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 01:45 |
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Ensign Expendable posted:Officers and NCOs in Soviet penal units were paid normally, those sent there as punishment served as privates and earned a private's pay with no bonuses they were preciously entitled to. Upon completion of their punishment, their rank and payment were restored. From my copy of "Penalty Strike" by Alexander Pyl'cyn who was a normal officer in a Penalty Battalion . From memory I recall mention (That I can't find unfortunately) that the shtrafniks considered themselves to be "2/3rds of a Guardsmen" as that's how much pay they received. Mind you this was for a Penalty Battalion which would be comprised of penal officers, not enlisted, which might be different. Also, the author's unit spent most of his time fighting under Rokossovski's command, which might have also modified things somewhat. There's also a funny moment when some officer is cussing out Alexander and threatens to send him to a penalty unit. He just starts laughing and pulls out his ID card with his unit on it and walks off.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 02:10 |
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Xerxes17 posted:I actually found this post to be a bit informative in a general sense I think there's a great value to broad knowledge- having the field painted in broad strokes lets you know where to look when you need something more specific. At least one poster in this forum hunts elk in Alaska and at least two design firearms, so there's practical value if they lurk this thread. Also, there are at least a handful of historical accounts of soldiers leaving their weapons outside their tents when camping in the Arctic, and I know if I were reading those accounts and hadn't thought of it, I'd be wondering why. Ensign Expendable posted:Update: Keldoclock posts in GBS, GBS now also mad about Keldoclock. Haters: Gotta catch 'em all! Eela6 posted:is this a word? Yes. I guess the history of artillery starts somewhere like 500BC, with cannons appearing like, early 1200s and gunpowder bombs launched out of cannons as intermediary. You probably won't find very detailed, consistent accounts persisting over years of use until the Napoleonic Wars. I don't know much about pre-20th century artillery, but I know a little bit about fire control computers. Which are related to the other discussion; Both the Colossus and Z3 are/were computers with very limited functionality. However, as any computer scientist, code monkey or poor bastard who has ever had to look at a pbx, elevator, wearable, covert listening device etc knows, with sufficient sacrifice of speed you can implement complex functions from simpler ones in stupid, inelegant and expensive ways. The Z3 was demonstrated to be Turing-complete, in sense, the same as the computer you are using now in terms of possible operations, in 1998 by Raul Rojas, by extending its functionality via the linked horrible hack. Although it is behind a paywall, there is also a similar proof for extending complete functionality from Colossus. So, Libluini, both the Colossus and Z3 are programmable computers as we understand them today, at least by formal proof- in actuality they were both specialized tools that were really only good at doing one task, like, say, your printer. Your printer could run any program the computer you're posting with can, if you are willing to sit there and slowly lose your sanity long enough to get it to work. However, you are absolutely correct that the Z3 predates the Colossus. I explain my thought process thusly: Ultimately there are surely more contenders for the title of "first computer", and just like "first lightbulb" "first domesticated plant" "first automobile" "first crossbow", we will probably never know. It seems that tools just manifest themselves into reality when the wills of their creators demand it, and people are far too much alike for there to really be a first example- even if we know for a fact that a given object is the first one, we certainly can't track down the concepts. Edit: Wow, and I can buy it new for $4000 from a shady Beijing motorcycle shop with a website from the 1990s? Wicked! Keldoclock fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Oct 17, 2015 |
# ? Oct 17, 2015 02:14 |
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Xerxes17 posted:From my copy of "Penalty Strike" by Alexander Pyl'cyn who was a normal officer in a Penalty Battalion . From memory I recall mention (That I can't find unfortunately) that the shtrafniks considered themselves to be "2/3rds of a Guardsmen" as that's how much pay they received. Mind you this was for a Penalty Battalion which would be comprised of penal officers, not enlisted, which might be different. Also, the author's unit spent most of his time fighting under Rokossovski's command, which might have also modified things somewhat. Ah, guess not then. Guards officers made 1.5 times as much as regular units. Eela6 posted:Wow. This is fascinating! I would love to hear more about artillery in general, as well as the training and development of artillery technique and artillerymen (is this a word?) Studying math myself, I've always figured if I were an old-time soldier I would end up in artillery. Then boy, do I have some numbers for you: http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/08/artillery-and-high-explosives.html http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2015/06/m-8-16-rocket-launcher.html http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2015/03/tiger-ii-trials-gunnery.html http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2015/02/valentine-mkix-trials.html http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2014/12/rocket-bike.html http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2014/01/ml-20-artillery-tables.html http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/08/d-25t-artillery-tables.html http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/07/ballistic-tables-of-88-cm-l71-kwk-43.html http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/05/accuracy-revisited.html
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 03:01 |
Arquinsiel posted:Wargame seems to regard artillery as a thing you use to let the enemy know where your FOB is located so they can send planes after it TBH. Artillery is woefully under-performing there even against infantry in the open. Every game, both table top and video, seems to regard artillery as something you do to irritate and discombobulate the enemy in preparation for killing them all with your troops. But every game is also built on the premise that destroying enemy troops = winning so if arty was as effective as it is IRL there would be no fun games.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 03:42 |
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At least wargame includes the oft-missing smoke shell for artillery.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 03:48 |
Ensign Expendable posted:Then boy, do I have some numbers for you: This is great stuff. I find the differences between the German and Soviet methodology w/r/t, say, accuracy statistics fascinating. In the stuff you've linked here, the Soviets seem far more interested in not just when shots miss, but °how° and where. That's real thinking. Are these kinds of differences in thought process about statistics, data, and mathematics representative in general?
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 06:49 |
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Slavvy posted:Every game, both table top and video, seems to regard artillery as something you do to irritate and discombobulate the enemy in preparation for killing them all with your troops. But every game is also built on the premise that destroying enemy troops = winning so if arty was as effective as it is IRL there would be no fun games. Wargame Airland Battle treated arty like this and they took a step in the lethal direction for Red Dragon. While it was great for knocking down OP mens in houses, great artillery almost always leads to very static gameplay since it's as punishing to clusters of attacking troops as is it to defenders. It's such a hard thing to really balance well, for a video game especially when you factor in all the different kinds like mortars, tubes and rockets. Artillery sucks. It's pretty hard to explain to some people just how lethal modern artillery/air power is because it's hard to even put in perspective for them. In reality, modern rocket artillery is loving terrifying because they can carry very scary payloads a very long and accurate way. When people get in conversations about modern war I just try to emphasize how loving scary it is with those examples where the Israelis double tapped those Gaza buildings to alert the occupants, and then make them disappear. Air power, but still a good example. Mazz fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Oct 17, 2015 |
# ? Oct 17, 2015 07:57 |
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Is there a good source to read about the war in Syria and Iraq from a military science perspective?
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 08:17 |
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Mazz posted:It's pretty hard to explain to some people just how lethal modern artillery/air power is because it's hard to even put in perspective for them. Is it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_qJm3HrjWo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vF-WvIL82Q
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 09:17 |
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Keldoclock posted:Is it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_qJm3HrjWo a good post, now use this as a template for when you post again. Oh you made a mistake here where you accidentally typed some words, watch out for mistakes like this in the future Keldoclock posted:Is it?
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 09:58 |
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stop bagging on keldoclock unless he actually says something dumbEela6 posted:P.s: I really appreciate the contributions that ensign e, hey gal, etc. make in the history threads. Its reinvigorated my love for history.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 11:16 |
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Cythereal posted:A very drunk zoo in all likelihood. I'll host the AA squad, then.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 11:38 |
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Keldoclock posted:Both the Colossus and Z3 are/were computers with very limited functionality. However, as any computer scientist, code monkey or poor bastard who has ever had to look at a pbx, elevator, wearable, covert listening device etc knows, with sufficient sacrifice of speed you can implement complex functions from simpler ones in stupid, inelegant and expensive ways. Wikipedia is poo poo, news at eleven Also you are totally wrong about the Z3. The Z3 had no specialized task, it was a programmable digital computer which could do whatever you programmed it to do. The Colossus only could decrypt things and you indeed would need to do a lot of wrangling with the thing to make it do anything else. In the most simple terms possible: The Colossus was like a printer. Theoretically it could do something else besides it's task, but that would need a lot of effort to do. The Z3 was more like the later home computers in that it wasn't specialized on a single task. If you take the time to learn the weird programming language Konrad Zuse wrote, you could do anything with it a later computer like the C64 could do. Welp, you'd need a better monitor of course but you get the gist. Your last paragraph is weird and wrong bullshit, so I assume you would have deleted it if you hadn't forgotten to proofread your post and just be nice and ignore it.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 11:56 |
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By Keldoclock's logic the Hussites are the ones we should thank for their design and conceptual work in developing the first tank, because what are tanks but armoured wagons with people inside shooting at stuff?
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 12:20 |
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Mazz posted:Wargame Airland Battle treated arty like this and they took a step in the lethal direction for Red Dragon. While it was great for knocking down OP mens in houses, great artillery almost always leads to very static gameplay since it's as punishing to clusters of attacking troops as is it to defenders. It's such a hard thing to really balance well, for a video game especially when you factor in all the different kinds like mortars, tubes and rockets. Artillery sucks. If we had a map with big icons showing exact enemy positions and was placing artillery right where we want it with the click of a mouse, we would scarcely need anything other than artillery in conventional conflict- that's why artillery in games is probably never going to be what it is in real life.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 12:26 |
Libluini posted:Wikipedia is poo poo, news at eleven The only thing really missing from the Z3 was conditional branching (IF X then Y ELSE Z), so it's not fully equivalent in instruction set to modern programming, but it's been proved that doesn't stop you emulating whatever a C64 could do if you have enough time and memory, just in pratise. The thing is the Germans never really used it for much, Konrad Zuse only developing it as a aid to civil engineering projects in the first place, and such much of the potential benefit from having such a good machine available to them was lost. It was used for a few things, but not nearly as much as it could be, and Zuse didn't do much of academic note afterwards IIRC.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 12:31 |
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100 Years Ago This British-French intervention in the battle for Serbia really isn't going very well at all; the Brits insist on guarding Salonika in case somebody tries to steal it, and the French are slogging forward over extremely difficult roads, muttering vague imprecations about how difficult resupply is going to be. The fighting Father Galaup goes in search of his German bayonet and has quite the adventure in No Man's Land, as Louis Barthas's new binoculars get him into trouble. Bernard Adams panders to the Internet, and Sir Ian Hamilton's place in our story comes to its final end.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 12:47 |
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The reason rocket artillery exists is that people really don't like getting shot at by artillery. One of the lessons from WW1 was that even if you spend an hour shooting at a tiny area there are gonna be some dudes that survived anyway, because as soon as the booming starts, people dive for cover. The first few artillery shells that land are the most effective ones, and that's why having a lot of gun tubes is important - it gets you that big first punch. After the first minute or so of bombardment you're not nearly as effective anymore and you should stop firing for effect and start firing for suppression while your guys get in position for an assault. It follows that if you want the greatest possible effect you want as many tubes as possible. However, artillery pieces are expensive and massing them in one place is risky, so enter rocket artillery: you get all the boom at once from a single cheap vehicle - a single truck can have the same effect as a whole battalion of conventional tube artillery. Sure, each rocket is more expensive than a single artillery shell, but it also has longer range and it's the gun that's expensive anyway. The above is also the reason that MRSI and things like the Bandkanon 1 exist - getting all the boom at once. Sorry if this is too much pointing out the obvious, by the way.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 12:51 |
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Is rocket artillery also useful for minimising the effect of counterbattery? Once you've launched your rockets the launcher truck is now much lighter and can quickly gently caress off, and if it does get blown up at least it was much cheaper than tube artillery.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 12:55 |
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The Lone Badger posted:Is rocket artillery also useful for minimising the effect of counterbattery? Once you've launched your rockets the launcher truck is now much lighter and can quickly gently caress off, and if it does get blown up at least it was much cheaper than tube artillery. The Soviets were pretty good at shooting and scooting with Katyushas from what I understand.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 13:05 |
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Panzeh posted:The Soviets were pretty good at shooting and scooting with Katyushas from what I understand. There's the great story of the katyusah batteries hiding under the river bank of the Volga in Stalingrad, reversing out of cover to launch then back into cover to reload
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 13:30 |
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Rabhadh posted:There's the great story of the katyusah batteries hiding under the river bank of the Volga in Stalingrad, reversing out of cover to launch then back into cover to reload
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 13:42 |
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There were also periodic attempts to attach rocket artillery to front-line tanks, particularly during WW2 including the Calliope and Whizbang.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 13:43 |
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Cythereal posted:There were also periodic attempts to attach rocket artillery to front-line tanks, particularly during WW2 including the Calliope and Whizbang. Don't forget (successful) attempts at attaching them to any vehicle whatsoever. Renault UE Chenillette with attached German rocket launcher system? Check Hotchkiss H35 with same as above? Check and others.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 13:52 |
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Don't forget (successful) attempts at attaching them to any vehicle whatsoever.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 13:57 |
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The nazis were desperately low on tanks in the closing months of the war...
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 14:01 |
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I've heard of lions led by donkeys, but this is ridiculous.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 14:09 |
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Trin Tragula posted:100 Years Ago Btw i dont know if you spotted this yet but Hamilton became a big fan of Hitler in the interwar years...
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 16:49 |
This is the only video anyone needs on artillery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x84uzzVynY8
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 17:24 |
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nothing to seehere posted:The only thing really missing from the Z3 was conditional branching (IF X then Y ELSE Z), so it's not fully equivalent in instruction set to modern programming, but it's been proved that doesn't stop you emulating whatever a C64 could do if you have enough time and memory, just in pratise. Actually, he did a lot, like founding his own corporation and developing a shitton of German computers until his death in 1995. I don't want to spam this thread with his extensive life's work though, so you have to go to Wikipedia for it. Military relevant is only his work for the Henschel HS 293 flying bomb: Konrad Zuse developed with the S1 and the S2 (1942/1943) their onboard-computers. The instruments he developed for the HS 293 were the first analog-digital converters. Konrad Zuse would probably the most important computer person to know about if either Germany had won the war, the allies hadn't stolen any technology they could get their hands on or if German corporations after the war hadn't made some really boneheaded choices. But all that stuff did happen, Telefunken collapsed and today only Germans know what the German computer industry is doing/has done. C'est la vie.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 17:47 |
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Trin Tragula posted:100 Years Ago Abbé Galaup rules.
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 19:39 |
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More old cannons? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytOWmfupUt8
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# ? Oct 17, 2015 19:41 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 09:05 |
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Jumped into the thread with 700 unreads. Skimming I can see cannon chat, a goon who hacks military drones as a hobby, and apparently our very own HEGEL getting harassed by GBS. I am willing to fetch my pike and rally. I will shoot pistols out the window in their direction. I will knock on their doors, punch their kids in the face, and then run them through with my dagger (then hang for it.) Seriously if she is driven from this forum by creeps and doxxing, I am out. Animal fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Oct 17, 2015 |
# ? Oct 17, 2015 20:11 |