Auspol: Not with a bang but with a whisper

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol: Not with a bang but with a whisper

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Solemn Sloth posted:

Going to go out on a limb and call a 22% swing an outlier

@GhostWhoVotes: #Ipsos Poll VIC Federal 2 Party Preferred: L/NP 53 (+11) ALP 47 (-11) #auspol

Don't think so.

# ? Oct 18, 2015 21:30

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 11:17

DeusExMachinima: Sep 2, 2012; This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!

Put this loser on ignore immediately!

Hello Ausgoons, I have heard some stuff about your laws and I was wondering if you could help me out! Is it true that in your country accusations of hate speech carry an assumption of guilt with the defendant having to prove they're innocent? Or is that something one of your political parties was trying to pass? What are voters' attitudes like in your country re: hate speech laws in general?

# ? Oct 18, 2015 23:11

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

in our country I can call you a racist and you have to prove me wrong or pay the wrongthink fine and wear a dunce cap.

# ? Oct 18, 2015 23:20

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

DeusExMachinima posted:

Hello Ausgoons, I have heard some stuff about your laws and I was wondering if you could help me out! Is it true that in your country accusations of hate speech carry an assumption of guilt with the defendant having to prove they're innocent? Or is that something one of your political parties was trying to pass? What are voters' attitudes like in your country re: hate speech laws in general?

Its all tru

BBJoey posted:

in our country I can call you a racist and you have to prove me wrong or pay the wrongthink fine and wear a dunce cap.

This is true and happened

# ? Oct 18, 2015 23:28

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

DeusExMachinima posted:

Hello Ausgoons, I have heard some stuff about your laws and I was wondering if you could help me out! Is it true that in your country accusations of hate speech carry an assumption of guilt with the defendant having to prove they're innocent? Or is that something one of your political parties was trying to pass? What are voters' attitudes like in your country re: hate speech laws in general?

Yes it is all true, you can read about it in this fine book.

# ? Oct 18, 2015 23:36

Birb Katter: Sep 18, 2010; BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Yes it is all true, you can read about it in this fine book.

FROM ANCIENT GREECE TO CONVICTED RACIST ANDREW BOLT

# ? Oct 18, 2015 23:48

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

I dream of the day the government issues an Apology to Andew Bolt....... I just hope it happens in his lifetime

# ? Oct 18, 2015 23:52

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

EvilElmo posted:

Wat.

Seriously? Man you have no clue at all.

It fluctuates back and forth but after reading that quote from Latham, he is probably way more of a shitlord than he lets on.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:05

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:11

norp: Jan 20, 2004; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil

How do you defend the indefensible?

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:15

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

very, uh [checks notes] very carefully

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:21

Amoeba102: Jan 22, 2010

He's got a look on his face that says he doesn't understand what this is all about. Why are people angry and why didn't this happen to the last guy.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:25

Au Revoir Shosanna: Feb 17, 2011; i support this government and/or service

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:33

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Watching Turnbull increase in the polls sure is something. At this point we're not sure if it's honeymoon or not.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:36

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

At some point turnbull has to actually do some policy, not to mention a budget.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:40

Birb Katter: Sep 18, 2010; BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

Solemn Sloth posted:

At some point turnbull has to actually do some policy, not to mention a budget.

You know he's going to throw out a sweet election budget, poo poo even Abbott threw out an election budget last time round in the hopes of getting a bump.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:44

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Solemn Sloth posted:

At some point turnbull has to actually do some policy, not to mention a budget.

Even when he does he's well spoken enough not to have half the country instantly reject it.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:47

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

I wonder what his gimmick will be. Prob Brisbane - Melbourne mag lev or something.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:56

Halo14: Sep 11, 2001

Jesus stop posting the picture of Mr Potato Head.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 00:59

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Birb Katter posted:

You know he's going to throw out a sweet election budget, poo poo even Abbott threw out an election budget last time round in the hopes of getting a bump.

The coalition so far has proven themselves completely unable to walk the tightrope of explaining why the economy is in crisis, while also giving out candy to swing voters. So far Morrison has made his living by exploiting xenophobia, and then a short stint trying to victimise people on welfare. I'm not convinced that he is the ubermensch for a legitimately complex task.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:04

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

Halo14 posted:

Jesus stop posting the picture of Mr Potato Head.

Ok.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:05

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Solemn Sloth posted:

The coalition so far has proven themselves completely unable to walk the tightrope of explaining why the economy is in crisis, while also giving out candy to swing voters. So far Morrison has made his living by exploiting xenophobia, and then a short stint trying to victimise people on welfare. I'm not convinced that he is the ubermensch for a legitimately complex task.

I think they've backed off the 'economy in crisis' button lately and are talking more about the 'economy of the future' which is basically ripping away worker entitlements that are supposed to be making business not agile enough or some poo poo.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:09

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

So Dutton's defence of the situation just came out.

ABC posted:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-19/peter-dutton-says-somali-woman-did-not-want-abortion-australia/6864668
Immigration Minister Peter Dutton says an asylum seeker who says she was raped on Nauru was flown back to the island because she told medical staff she did not want an abortion in Australia.

The 23-year-old woman's lawyer, George Newhouse, said she did not change her mind about the abortion, but was not given counselling.

Mr Dutton said interpreters helped medical staff communicate with the woman during most consultations and her decision was clear.

"We provided a charter flight for this lady to come to Australia, she received medical assistance and made a decision that she didn't wish to go ahead with the procedure," he told Radio National.

"I'm very, very concerned about the privacy of this lady, but I'm dragged into this debate to clear up what I think is a political motivation by some of the advocates."

The Somali woman, known as Abyan, was flown back to immigration detention on Friday.

Mr Newhouse said abortions were illegal on Nauru and his client would now be forced to have the baby, unless she was brought back to Australia.

"When you ask her what her future is, it's really a matter for the Prime Minister," he said.

"The decision is with the Government."

Mr Newhouse said he had not made any moves to apply for Abyan's permanent stay in Australia.

"We had no instruction to keep her in Australia under a migration scam," he said.

"When we heard an hour before she was being removed from the country without treatment that that was going to happen, of course we tried to stop her going back without treatment.

"But, that was a temporary injunction."

Mr Newhouse said he would be having further legal discussions regarding his client's future today.

Lefty Lawyers wage lawfare again.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:16

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

gay picnic defence posted:

I think they've backed off the 'economy in crisis' button lately and are talking more about the 'economy of the future' which is basically ripping away worker entitlements that are supposed to be making business not agile enough or some poo poo.

Most people when they hear turnbull talking about agile either have no idea what he's talking about, or know it's a load of middle management wank that they've heard their fuckwit boss bleat on about.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:25

Eediot Jedi: Dec 25, 2007; This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

"I'm very concerned about her privacy, but here are the sweet details to protect my starch rear end. It's ok I didn't mention any real names!!!"

That's not how privacy works. It's hosed how the privacy of on water matters is absolute but the minister can loving bust out this poo poo about medical treatment/non-treatment to protect his rear end.

And yes I know someone is going to empty quote this and just bold the protect his rear end bit.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:30

Kegslayer: Jul 23, 2007

DeusExMachinima posted:

Hello Ausgoons, I have heard some stuff about your laws and I was wondering if you could help me out! Is it true that in your country accusations of hate speech carry an assumption of guilt with the defendant having to prove they're innocent? Or is that something one of your political parties was trying to pass? What are voters' attitudes like in your country re: hate speech laws in general?

It's not true at all. You had some people get upset because a certain pro-government commentator got taken to court after he wrote a bunch of articles naming a number of Aboriginals for taken advantage of their heritage because they weren't black enough.

The court ruled that he was full of poo poo since he hadn't even bothered to do any research, much less a google search.

The government then went on a full 'Free Speech' rampage and tried to appeal the law before realising that running the 'it's okay to be a racist' card probably wasn't going to win it the next election.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:32

Eediot Jedi: Dec 25, 2007; This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

Literally mad as hell right now that I worked a lovely APS job for years where a person's privacy was considered sacrosanct and the fastest way to get yourself fired, fined or jailed was to gently caress with that, but a loving Minister can just blab whatever he likes and will face zero consequences.

Kegslayer posted:

The government then went on a full 'Free Speech' rampage and tried to appeal the law before realising that running the 'it's okay to be a racist' card probably wasn't going to win it the next election.

What happened to Brandis, I lost track of him after Turnbull came from behind with the knives.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:34

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Noted sweater enthusiast, George Brandis.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:37

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Tommofork posted:

What happened to Brandis, I lost track of him after Turnbull came from behind with the knives.

He lost the Arts Ministry because he needed to concentrate on being a bad Attorney General

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:39

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

From courier fail:

quote:

THOUSANDS of Australian students feel cheated by universities seemingly corrupted by the dollars of foreign students.

Bringing this anger to a head is the mad insistence of universities on group assignments.

These are socialistic projects in which groups of students work collectively and share the same mark � which means conscientious ones carry the slackers and strugglers.

Yes, plenty of Australians are slackers but the problem is now much worse because a fifth of our university students are from overseas, and many struggle with poor or sub-standard English.

Result: an Australian student in a group assignment can be dragged down or a foreign student with bad English gets dragged up to a good mark they don�t deserve.

How high is the resentment? One post-graduate student at Melbourne University posted a complaint on the University of Melbourne Confessions website that resonated so strongly that it received 9500 likes and 2500 comments, many from students adding their own horror stories.

The post-grad student, call him �A�, told of being given a group assignment with seven international students, all friends. Only one turned up to meetings to discuss the project with A. She represented the others but presented no ideas.

When A complained to his course co-ordinator he was allegedly told this was a test of his leadership. So A took on most of the work and �just started on an idea on my own�, regularly posting drafts of this �group� assignment to their joint Facebook page.

TAX PROBE: Foreign students buying mansions in Australia

CHEAPER DEGREES: Lower Aussie dollar lures international students

Eventually one of the others wrote back to say the group�s English was terrible and could A rewrite and correct their own contributions. �They wrote about 50 words in each,� A noted, and �ALL of them were copied from Wikipedia�.

So A made a deal. He�d write most of the assignment, and the international students could just do the formal presentation to the co-ordinator. But with just one day to deadline, the others messaged him that �their English was too crap to do the presentation and that they want me to do it�.

Now, here�s the big picture. Fee-paying foreign students are a $12 billion a year gold mine, paying nearly a third of the total income of some universities.

More than 200,000 now study here, a quarter from China. They make up nearly half of RMIT University�s students, for instance, and 40 per cent of the University of Wollongong�s. Of course, many are Asia�s best young brains. Many work harder than Australians and bring great skills. Educating them also builds us a great bridge to our neighbours.

But universities meanwhile struggle to cope with many foreign students with inadequate English, but who wants to fail them and lose the fees? How to find the extra staff?

Enter group assessments. Universities claim these are important exercises to build teamwork and leadership.

As Deakin University puts it: �The successful completion of a group assignment usually means that you have acquired many very important skills, particularly communication, analytical and interpersonal skills. These are highly valued by employers.�

Maybe, but they certainly help universities. Instead of having to mark, say, 100 assignments, an academic now marks just 20.

Even better, students with bad English can get carried along by ones with good English. Fewer fail, then.

Again, I repeat. Australians can be bludgers, too. And students with poor English can still bring other skills to a group assessment, such as scientific nous.

But dozens of university students past and present � few wishing to be identified � tell me they�ve gone through much the same strife as A.

Here are just some.

Reader Al: �When I was completing � an engineering degree I was emailed exactly this at 2:30am to compile into a group project due at 9:30am that day by a mature age Chinese student: �Personnel Issues lack of expert to execute the project and labors get exhausted because every year there are many infrastructures ongoing and require a large number expert and experience labors...� And so on.

Reader JohnO: �Whilst doing my undergrad degree (at Monash), I was quite often the only Anglo� I was appalled at the utter lack of English capability in the students I was working with. In many cases their work was literally cut and pasted from the internet � To make things even worse, Monash began failing entire teams of people if even one member was guilty of plagiarism.�

Reader J: �When I did my Bachelor of Laws, I was put in a group of five for a presentation� One student rarely turned up to class, and the other three had issues speaking English. I ended up having to write a script for each person, which we then delivered to our tutor. One student couldn�t read the script (English wasn�t his first language) �. We got 62 per cent (a pass) for the assessment, which dragged my final mark down to a credit as opposed to a High Distinction.�

Reader Z: �I did an accounting degree with roughly 80 per cent foreign students� I was in a group with two foreign students� Their parts consisted of paragraphs of terrible English that you would expect from a primary school student, plus very well written sections that were clearly copied from reference material. As all group members were given the same mark, I was up all night editing the assignment, improving the English and rewriting the plagiarised sections. The foreign students got a high mark due to all my hard work.�

Reader Stuart: �I lectured at (university name withheld) in the business school from 2006 until 2012� I had to basically mark as softly as I possibly could to allow these students through� Group assignments are a huge curse. The idea is there will be someone in the team who will keep things in line to make sure there is no plagiarism. But it severely disadvantages good students.�

Yes, these are just anecdotes, untested, but there are dozens of them, and the pressure on universities to just shovel through foreign students is real.

Dr Robert Waldersee, of the Independent Commission Against Corruption, confirms that academics reported feeling �pressure � to pass students that they believe should not have passed�.

�In one case,� he told the ABC, �an academic described where he had failed 50 per cent of the class and under pressure had to reconsider, and ended up only failing 20 per cent.�

So how badly has the money from foreign students corrupted our own standards, dragging down our brightest students?

By Andrew Bolt

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:52

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Group work sucks but so does life after university and it's good preparation for it.

[EDIT: A lot of cheating and free riding could be eliminated by requiring students to present their assignments orally, but I guess the resources aren't there in most cases, especially in first year subjects with hundreds of students.]

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:57

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

From courier fail:

By Splode

# ? Oct 19, 2015 01:59

Cleretic: Feb 3, 2010; Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Kegslayer posted:

It's not true at all. You had some people get upset because a certain pro-government commentator got taken to court after he wrote a bunch of articles naming a number of Aboriginals for taken advantage of their heritage because they weren't black enough.

The court ruled that he was full of poo poo since he hadn't even bothered to do any research, much less a google search.

The government then went on a full 'Free Speech' rampage and tried to appeal the law before realising that running the 'it's okay to be a racist' card probably wasn't going to win it the next election.

Didn't one of Alan Jones or Andrew Bolt get convicted for inciting the Cronulla riots, too, or am I misremembering something?

# ? Oct 19, 2015 02:03

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Most group assignments I've done with international students have resulted in similar problems to the examples in there. I don't mind the poor English because I know I sure as hell couldn't go to another country and do a course in a second language but the plagiarism gives me a shits. One of them gave me his contribution to out project, not only was it a c/p from wikipedia, it was the wrong loving wikipedia article. His response? "Oh, sorry. I didn't know it was one of those assignments where you had to read and understand". :eng99:

# ? Oct 19, 2015 02:03

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

gay picnic defence posted:

Most group assignments I've done with international students have resulted in similar problems to the examples in there. I don't mind the poor English because I know I sure as hell couldn't go to another country and do a course in a second language but the plagiarism gives me a shits. One of them gave me his contribution to out project, not only was it a c/p from wikipedia, it was the wrong loving wikipedia article. His response? "Oh, sorry. I didn't know it was one of those assignments where you had to read and understand".

But surely people shouldn't be doing courses in a language they don't understand, it's ridiculous.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 02:16

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

So Dutton's defence of the situation just came out.

Lefty Lawyers wage lawfare again.

I was literally screaming at Fran Kelly to point out that the last time there were allegations of collusion from Border Farce it was shown to be a big steaming pack of lies. Do you think she did?

# ? Oct 19, 2015 02:18

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

gay picnic defence posted:

Most group assignments I've done with international students have resulted in similar problems to the examples in there. I don't mind the poor English because I know I sure as hell couldn't go to another country and do a course in a second language but the plagiarism gives me a shits. One of them gave me his contribution to out project, not only was it a c/p from wikipedia, it was the wrong loving wikipedia article. His response? "Oh, sorry. I didn't know it was one of those assignments where you had to read and understand".

This is quite literally race baiting because this issue isn't to do with international students, it's to do with lovely students. International students do not have a monopoly on being lovely students. The best group member I've ever worked with was an international and the worst was Australian. Anecdote =/= evidence.

Also forcing large group work on people is a lovely way of assessing individual performance, so if there's an issue there just assess individually and HERP DERP ISSUE SOLVED.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 02:19

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

gay picnic defence posted:

"Oh, sorry. I didn't know it was one of those assignments where you had to read and understand".

He's going to fit right in to this country.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 02:20

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

There are legitimate concerns to be raised regarding universities putting pressure on staff to treat international students with a light touch when it comes to plagiarism/assessment quality so they keep getting those sweet overseas fees but as observed it's quite difficult to separate said concerns from "those fokkin orientals don't know nuffing about good learnin!!!".

# ? Oct 19, 2015 02:31

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 11:17

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

My last assignment ever was a few months ago and the international students in my group were excellent. Intelligent, analytical and insightful. They just had crap English. So we divided and conquered, I volunteered to edit and proof read the ~80ish parts of the assignment and we each agreed to split the assignment up into several parts that we all researched and put together separately. Where there was an issue with communicating an idea, we went back and forth until we had clarity and consensus. There was a point where we thought there was a copy/paste from an article there, went back and clarified and it was a miscommunication and rectified.

I compare that to one of the other groups who all had perfect english but were full of alpha-personalities and spent most of their time debating what to do and how to do it that they ran short of time. Another group just ran out of time because they were poo poo at planning - again, with perfect English.

It is difficult to tease apart the issues in this case. Of course there is pressure on our universities to admit and pass international students, but that pressure could easily be solved by more rigorous pre-university education on ethics and expectations of university life. Perhaps the universities can make that a prerequisite of their courses (and of course charge for the privilege). Hooman is right, this isn't an issue with international students, it's an issue with lovely students and there are multiple ways of ensuring lovely students are either prepared for the workload and expectations, or quite rightly flunked when they don't perform.

# ? Oct 19, 2015 02:37

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