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mr. mephistopheles posted:How is Trump not Lando Calrissian. Lando is successful.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:13
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Trabisnikof posted:I think the platinum coin is more likely than us hitting the debt ceiling and not defaulting on loan payments. No, the platinum coin is a fantasy. Trabisnikof posted:Maybe we could get a bridge loan from the IMF or something? Heh.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:15
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Epic High Five posted:I imagine he'll find the votes when Chinese assassins start offing the Freedom Caucus because a US default means China loses at least 1/3 of its economy overnight Obama working with evil communists to persecute real Christians.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:15
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Zeroisanumber posted:No, the platinum coin is a fantasy. More like a nightmare, but still can come true. quote:The Secretary may mint and issue platinum bullion coins and proof platinum coins in accordance with such specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary’s discretion, may prescribe from time to time
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Oct 20, 2015 21:17
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None of us are going to see Star Wars because the world will be destroyed.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:18
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The platinum coin is a dumb idea. If Congress really simply can't raise the debt ceiling in time the better approach is to invoke the 14th Amendment. 90% of people won't care, but for those that do the optics of pointing to the Constitution, instead of One Weird Trick To Mint A Trillion Dollars are much, much better. In addition, the economic optics of issuing debt are better economically than printing currency - printing currency to meet government spending is what failed states do. Both are wretched ideas compared to just lifting the ceiling and Obama will never openly consider them because then Congress might think it can get off the hook. This is more once we've blown past Nov 3rd and default is about to hit.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:18
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Trey Gowdy's "investigative" committee is dumping 200 sensitive documents 1 day before Hillary Clinton's testimony, against the security recommendations of the State Department: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/state-department-objects-benghazi-panel-email-release-214965#ixzz3p8PXbVvp quote:While State is opposing the public email disclosure by the House panel, the agency also conducted a “sensitivity review” of the records in response to committee Chairman Trey Gowdy’s plan to make the records public. Certainly it's not political to release 200 documents against the security recommendations of the State Department 1 day before her testimony in an attempt to catch her unprepared. I imagine there must be some good talking points for the GOP in those documents unless he's just flailing around in response to his collapse in the past couple of weeks.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:19
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Hollismason posted:Maybe they think this is the only way they can win the 2016 elections? Cause the default and destroy Obama's "legacy" and we go into the 2016 election with unemployment sky high and the econmy destroyed. So would no-kidding jackboot fascism. I don't see that as an appealing outcome.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:19
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You know, even if Boehner can't find people to vote for the debt ceiling, I suspect he can find people to abstain or find urgent plans elsewhere to lower the amount of votes he needs.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:21
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TheRamblingSoul posted:So would no-kidding jackboot fascism. I don't see that as an appealing outcome. Populist and fascist are in no way opposites, you get that right?
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Oct 20, 2015 21:21
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Yeah so how would that even be enforced
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Oct 20, 2015 21:22
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evilweasel posted:There's no reason a debt limit needs to exist at all. As we're seeing right now, it doesn't exactly do anything good at all, just create problems. Not that Boehner will get rid of it, but if Democrats get control of Congress back they should. So why do we have it?
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Oct 20, 2015 21:23
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So just checking, but I'm a software engineer, my wife is an associate(or assistant? Whichever one is the one with tenure) professor and speaks French, we both have passports, we could just leave the country and get jobs elsewhere right?
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Oct 20, 2015 21:24
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zoux posted:So why do we have it? It exists solely so that politicians can have something to fight over with regards to DEBT. greatn posted:So just checking, but I'm a software engineer, my wife is an associate(or assistant? Whichever one is the one with tenure) professor and speaks French, we both have passports, we could just leave the country and get jobs elsewhere right? If the US defaults and the American economy collapses there ain't gonna be jobs anywhere in the world, buddy. It's like trying to escape a full-on nuclear war.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:24
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Nintendo Kid posted:It exists solely so that politicians can have something to fight over with regards to DEBT. But they didn't start fighting over it until recently.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:25
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Epic High Five posted:I imagine he'll find the votes when Chinese assassins start offing the Freedom Caucus because a US default means China loses at least 1/3 of its economy overnight Assuming the world economy went bust, what kind of an outcry would there be from the world community from essentially imploding the international order over demands to curtail women's reproductive rights?
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Oct 20, 2015 21:25
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evilweasel posted:You know, even if Boehner can't find people to vote for the debt ceiling, I suspect he can find people to abstain or find urgent plans elsewhere to lower the amount of votes he needs. Honestly, if he can't scare up 30 votes I don't know what to think anymore. greatn posted:So just checking, but I'm a software engineer, my wife is an associate(or assistant? Whichever one is the one with tenure) professor and speaks French, we both have passports, we could just leave the country and get jobs elsewhere right? The knock-on effects for a collapse of the US bond/banking sector would drag the rest of the world down too.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:26
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greatn posted:So just checking, but I'm a software engineer, my wife is an associate(or assistant? Whichever one is the one with tenure) professor and speaks French, we both have passports, we could just leave the country and get jobs elsewhere right? If you'd find a country that would give you a work permit sure. We don't have exit controls (yet).
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Oct 20, 2015 21:26
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zoux posted:So why do we have it? Because it is currently the law, and Congress has yet to repeal it. I haven't looked into it, but it was probably some chicanery show law passed to look like they were serious budget makers to their rube constituents or something.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:27
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Yeah every country in the world would be probably be affected.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:28
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zoux posted:But they didn't start fighting over it until recently. Recently meaning like since the 90s, and in this particularly stupid way not until Obama, yeah. TheRamblingSoul posted:Assuming the world economy went bust, what kind of an outcry would there be from the world community from essentially imploding the international order over demands to curtail women's reproductive rights? You... you're aware that tons of the world is in line with the republicans on abortion in particular, and women's rights in general? poo poo Australia still has several states more restrictive then the worst red state could hope to be.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:29
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zoux posted:So why do we have it? Once upon a time it sounded good, probably as a sweetener to get some guys to vote for a budget that ran a deficit as a promise that they'd balance it in the future. But it simply makes no sense for Congress to pass a bill limiting the amount it can spend because the next spending bill overrides that. If you wanted a "real" debt limit it would need to be constitutionalized and force Congress to budget within it. As it exists now it's just a way for Congress to gently caress up.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:30
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TheRamblingSoul posted:Assuming the world economy went bust, what kind of an outcry would there be from the world community from essentially imploding the international order over demands to curtail women's reproductive rights? It wouldn't matter because we'd all be hosed together. To get away from doom and gloom, I don't think that we will ever hit the debt ceiling, but dicking around with it the way that we do fucks with out economy and it really needs to go away forever.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:32
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Zeroisanumber posted:It wouldn't matter because we'd all be hosed together. Maybe the conservatives just think it'll be so bad for everyone globally that the USA would still be number 1, and that's all that's important.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:34
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I think they genuinely don't believe that a debt default would be as bad as everyone is saying. I seem to remember some messaging along those lines last time around.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:35
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Most people don't even know why it is important so that's another thing. I think that the Republicans sending us over the cliff wouldn't actually harm their party it'd be solely blamed on the Democrats and in fact i think they'd be better off as a party if we were in a horrible financial crisis.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:36
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With all the talk of Ryan for speaker, what was his opinion on the Debt Ceiling last time around? I forget.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:37
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i think he's voted for and against it at various times in his political career.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:40
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Hollismason posted:Most people don't even know why it is important so that's another thing. I think that the Republicans sending us over the cliff wouldn't actually harm their party it'd be solely blamed on the Democrats and in fact i think they'd be better off as a party if we were in a horrible financial crisis. In the 2011 debt ceiling crisis, Obama's poll numbers went down more than anyone else or any party. Pennsylvania is blaming their Democratic governor for the state GOP's hostage taking. The 2013 Shutdown had 0 negative effect on the 2014 midterms, it actually might have motivated the GOP base more to vote. If a default or 6+ month long shutdown happens under President Obama or President Clinton, I highly suspect Obama/Clinton will receive most of the blame simply for being President when it happened. And I bet that the GOP will be rewarded heavily in the elections for it. Mitt Romney fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 21:41
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Hollismason posted:Most people don't even know why it is important so that's another thing. I think that the Republicans sending us over the cliff wouldn't actually harm their party it'd be solely blamed on the Democrats and in fact i think they'd be better off as a party if we were in a horrible financial crisis. I wouldn't put it past republicans to think that if there was a major economic collapse while a democrat was in the white house about a year before the election it would allow them to take it... just like that Obama did in 08.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:41
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zoux posted:I think they genuinely don't believe that a debt default would be as bad as everyone is saying. I seem to remember some messaging along those lines last time around. There's definitely idiots who don't get it. There's also smarter idiots who aren't crazy enough to want to default, but think that convincing everyone they're crazy enough to default gives them leverage. But Boehner knows it's bad and there's enough people who know it's bad to pass the increase. Question is if they're willing to risk their seat to be one of the visibly sane ones: they all want someone else to do it.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:41
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haveblue posted:That miniseries is better than all the prequels combined, and a successful marriage of superhero jedis to war-movie milieu, and Tartakovsky is a goddamn genius.  Lote posted:Also there would be accusations that Alderaan was a false flag attack. Did the Empire ever publicize the Death Star's attack? Could a space station really blow up a planet? All we've seen is the Death Star blow up capital ships. Did somebody say, apologia for the destruction of Alderaan? quote:Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet. It's a dictatorship people can do business with. They collect taxes and patrol the skies. They try to stop organized crime (in the form of the smuggling rings run by the Hutts). The Empire has virtually no effect on the daily life of the average, law-abiding citizen. It's always Pinochet they point back to fondly, every goddamn time. quote:The destruction of Alderaan is often cited as ipso facto proof of the Empire's "evilness" because it seems like mass murder--planeticide, even. As Tarkin prepares to fire the Death Star, Princess Leia implores him to spare the planet, saying, "Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons." Her plea is important, if true. Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 21:44
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Mitt Romney posted:In the 2011 debt ceiling crisis, Obama's poll numbers went down more than anyone else or any party. Pennsylvania is blaming their Democratic governor for the state GOP's hostage taking. The 2013 Shutdown had 0 negative effect on the 2014 midterms, it actually might have motivated the GOP base more to vote. This is the exact reason why i think they would let this happen. They realize that this Presidency is incredibly important what with Supreme Court nominations etc..
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Oct 20, 2015 21:47
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I'm waiting, with baited breath, for Mr Last's defense of the bombing of the MSF Hospital in Kunduz.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:48
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evilweasel posted:There's definitely idiots who don't get it. There's also smarter idiots who aren't crazy enough to want to default, but think that convincing everyone they're crazy enough to default gives them leverage. But Boehner knows it's bad and there's enough people who know it's bad to pass the increase. Question is if they're willing to risk their seat to be one of the visibly sane ones: they all want someone else to do it. Well let's hope that averting global economic Armageddon doesn't rely solely on House members finding political courage.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:51
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Anyone who votes for the debt ceiling raise or a clean bill will absolutely get killed in their elections by lunatic right wingers.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:53
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Mitt Romney posted:Boehner is having problems even coming up with 30 votes for a clean debt ceiling vote now. http://thehill.com/policy/finance/257393-gop-votes-scarce-on-debt-ceiling-hike Uhh but the article says that he's probably got 50-70 votes? And he got 91 Republican votes in September to avoid a shutdown.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:55
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A lot has changed in 12 months though.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:57
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Your afternoon news update: Millennials are getting priced out of starter homes. In another sign that the Democratic coalition is fraying, BLM activists have demanded that the DNC add at least one debate dedicated to addressing the movement. WaPo columnist: Menendez was right, Obama's Iran deal is a failure! Another WaPo columnist: Republicans were right, Obamacare is a failure!
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Oct 20, 2015 21:58
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Captain_Maclaine posted:It's always Pinochet they point back to fondly, every goddamn time. Well yeah, it's the only time Chicago-style economics worked.
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Oct 20, 2015 22:00
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