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ChiTownEddie posted:I don't disagree with any aspect of the comments about the combat issues. The thing is that despite the advertising I'm not approaching this like a 4x. So the fact that combat seems to be a mutual destruction, build up if only to prevent it, type of situation...is actually okay. I mean this mostly in the respect that it almost makes it more of an interesting strategic choice to try and earn a star or two by making sure you have enough power and picking the right fights. I like a diverse strategy spread and this combat approach seems to fit into that. But you nailed it in far fewer words. People need to adjust their expectations on this thing. If you're expecting TI3, get out as fast as you can. If you're looking for a solid player, I don't think you're going to feel screwed here. But this WILL be available after via retail, ebay, and resale from backers who don't like it. (Come on, not all 10,000+ are going to think it's the bees knees)
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Oct 21, 2015 05:30
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thorsilver posted:How do I actually even do this anymore? Like many people I don't have money coming out of my arse and had to wait for some cash, and now it seems like all the 'All PDFs' tiers are gone, even though we're talking digital products and that doesn't even make any sense. Do I have to back at 'Rising Threats' and then use add-ons for The Fall of Delta Green and to upgrade to the Case Officer's Handbook? It's my understanding that limiting the number of a tier like "all the PDFs" is justified in the form of "it's cheaper if you want to get everything, but you have to jump in right now, and 'everything' is still dependent on what actually gets funded" Ideally they'd (and a general they, not just DG specifically) have a second "all the PDFs" tier with unlimited slots that's more expensive, just for convenience's sake.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's my understanding that limiting the number of a tier like "all the PDFs" is justified in the form of "it's cheaper if you want to get everything, but you have to jump in right now, and 'everything' is still dependent on what actually gets funded" As far as I can tell there are two relevant tiers, "all the new PDFs" and "all the new and old PDFs" tiers, and they are both unlimited, these being Rising Threat and Secrets of the Old Ones. (Well, all the Arc Dream PDFs. The Fall of Delta Green is Pelgrane so it's an addon.) There are a bunch of other miscellaneous tiers that appear to be relics of rethinking the tier structure of the campaign midway through, and they probably wouldn't exist if Kickstarter let you delete tiers that have backers. The best you can do is make them limited to the backers that already have them. Confusing, for sure, but the intended "all the PDF" tiers haven't been removed or made limited.
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Oct 21, 2015 06:36
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I didn't see Headspace RPG dropped here, so there we go.
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Oct 21, 2015 06:57
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Foglet posted:I didn't see Headspace RPG dropped here, so there we go. I'm getting a CTRL ALT DEL vibe from the art in that.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:03
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thorsilver posted:How do I actually even do this anymore? Like many people I don't have money coming out of my arse and had to wait for some cash, and now it seems like all the 'All PDFs' tiers are gone, even though we're talking digital products and that doesn't even make any sense. Do I have to back at 'Rising Threats' and then use add-ons for The Fall of Delta Green and to upgrade to the Case Officer's Handbook? Back at Rising Threats, add $25 for Fall of Delta Green (So select the Rising Threats Tier but put $105 in as the amount) and you're done. Rising Threats comes wtith the Case Officers. I think that Fall of DG is being done separately because it's Pelgrane making it and so they can readily track how many people have ordered it. Or something.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:40
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm getting a CTRL ALT DEL vibe from the art in that. If that helps, the artist is Brian Patterson, author of the d20Monkey webcomic and one half of the Exploding Rogue studios that made Iron Edda.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:59
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So I received my Toughest Girls in the Galaxy stuff the other day, which reminded me of the fact that I didn't remember receiving the first part of the KS (the freebies.) I went back and checked, and sure enough, I received a confirmation email of the package going out, but I don't recall ever actually getting the models. I wrote Raging Heroes and, after a check on their end, they said they'd send out replacements, which I thought was pretty cool of them, since they had no proof the package didn't arrive. I received the models last night, and after going through the packing list, I realized I was missing one model - the weird, gross pregnant biomechanical lady-thing (though they did tone it down from the concept sketches)  No big deal - I didn't want it anyway, and was just going to sell it on Ebay. Turns out, I got lucky - apparently they grabbed the wrong model and gave me this one instead - crazy AdMech lady:  Currently going for $80 on Ebay. 
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Oct 21, 2015 13:09
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homullus posted:Hey, no problem, any time. I can totally see, thanks to your business acumen and lucid explanation, how selling a low-margin item at even closer to cost via KS is always strictly better than having your product on store shelves where people who don't use KS can see it. No problem. - Margins: KS/Payment processors take ~10%. Maybe you offer a 10-20% discount over MSRP via KS pledges. Selling to a distributor who in turn sells to a retailer, you end up with 50% or less of MSRP. If CSI can sell games for 30% off MSRP and still stay in business, they have to be buying those games at less than 30% off. So typically KS is going to net your more than retail sales. At worst, you are getting the same profit per sale. But this is still better than selling via retail, because: -Cash flow: If you're trying to fund game production, the money needs to come from somewhere. Via traditional means, you're going to be beholden to a bank that's going to want collateral (which for very small companies can mean personal property) You aren't going to presell your game to distributors, so you have to have an ongoing income source to hit those monthly payments (with interest). So with traditional means you have a whole different level of money management you have to deal with. -Gauging demand: Traditional production means you essentially guess at demand, and then print up a batch. If you print too few, you lose out on volume production discounts and potential sales. If you print too many, you then end up paying carrying costs on merchandise - which will quickly kill what little profit margin you have. With KS, you know that 100% of what you produce is already sold, and if you want to produce more for retail, the profit from presales can directly fund the additional copies. That was today's short lesson of why you don't know what the gently caress you're talking about.
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Oct 21, 2015 14:58
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Aquelarre finally stands a chance of getting an English translation in the guise of a Deluxe Giant Book and whatnot: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1861515217/aquelarre-the-dark-and-mature-medieval-rpg-now-in/description $20K seems hopeful I wish Kickstarters for translations of P&P things were more common(I have to imagine the state of Anima would be faring so much better in these modern times...), but here's hoping this makes it and further paves the way for more stuff breaking all manner of language barriers.
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Oct 21, 2015 15:12
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ExiledTinkerer posted:Aquelarre finally stands a chance of getting an English translation in the guise of a Deluxe Giant Book and whatnot: Oh poo poo, dark and mature?!
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Oct 21, 2015 15:20
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Crackbone posted:No problem. That was a short lesson of why KS is good for game designers. That was never in question, but well done! Tell me why backing a game in an already very successful Kickstarter headed for retail helps the designer more than having some units moving through retail. How are you supporting Jamey better by backing a successful KS than by having stores and distributors seeing his products move off shelves?
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Oct 21, 2015 15:24
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Era: The Empowered - Superhero RPG from Shades of Vengeance  quote:Era: The Empowered uses the Era d10 Ruleset, which was invented in 2011 by Ed Jowett. It has been slightly adapted to suit the specifics of this game but the principles remain the same as the rule set used in Era: The Consortium and Era: Lyres. Also they did an AMA over on RPGNet a week or so ago, and still only managed to get 10 backers and half of their $500 funding goal.
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Oct 21, 2015 15:27
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With a logo like that, how could their kickstarter have failed?
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Oct 21, 2015 15:46
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This has some of the worst art I've ever seen in a Kickstarter. What is wrong with Blue Shirt Guy's right arm?
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Oct 21, 2015 15:46
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Delta Green sounds like a clusterfuck with how many people have questions like "how do I get all the PDF files".
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Oct 21, 2015 15:50
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Jimmeeee posted:This has some of the worst art I've ever seen in a Kickstarter. What is wrong with Blue Shirt Guy's right arm? Guy in robot suit is also either really huge or was originally in the foreground, but then later got shoved back without being ensmallened. The woman in front of him might be as tall as his navel. If he has one.
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Oct 21, 2015 15:51
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In other news, I was just reminded that 7th Continent exists and is still going; they just broke $900k.  It's a $100 buy-in for the "get everything except the four add-ons" level, but holy poo poo you get a ton of stuff.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:08
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That is literally the Storyteller system
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Oct 21, 2015 16:28
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Evil Mastermind posted:In other news, I was just reminded that 7th Continent exists and is still going; they just broke $900k. Unfortunately the S&H isn't baked in to those pledge levels, so add 10-15 pounds if you're lucky, 20-35 if you aren't. A total of 160 Canadian for their base game is a really rough ask even though I like the concept.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:36
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Echophonic posted:Delta Green sounds like a clusterfuck with how many people have questions like "how do I get all the PDF files". Yeah...that one looks like a classic case of over complicating things to the extreme. Kickstarter is not really set up to allow customers to pick-and-mix.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:41
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I'm surprised Kickstarter doesn't have a built in addon menu thing. Or if it does that they didn't use it for DG, or that it wasn't appropriate or whatever.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:43
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From a customer friendliness and clarity standpoint, I think Kickstarters work best when there's a clear progression of reward tiers. PDF -> softcover -> hardcover for books, for example. If a backer ever has to consult a reward matrix or ask in the comments "so how do I pledge for X, Y, but not Z", it's too complex for Kickstarter's interface.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:47
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Kickstarter only recently added in auto-calculated shipping, so I wouldn't bet on them improving their pledge interface any time soon. I don't think they particularly want to encourage add-ons - the way their creator-pointing interface is set up, I think they want pretty much a 1:1 correlation between pledge level and reward received.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:50
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homullus posted:That was a short lesson of why KS is good for game designers. That was never in question, but well done! Tell me why backing a game in an already very successful Kickstarter headed for retail helps the designer more than having some units moving through retail. How are you supporting Jamey better by backing a successful KS than by having stores and distributors seeing his products move off shelves? For the exact same reasons I mentioned above. Your mistake is thinking that he wants to move to a traditional publishing model. He already sells to retailers now. A big hit game generally does a 10k print run, he's already managed close to that, with more than half of those sales being a $100 version. He gets more $$$ per copy this way, and he still gets to sell via traditional outlets. So to turn the question around, why do you think it benefits him to buy his games via retail?
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Oct 21, 2015 17:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's my understanding that limiting the number of a tier like "all the PDFs" is justified in the form of "it's cheaper if you want to get everything, but you have to jump in right now, and 'everything' is still dependent on what actually gets funded" edit: this is all based on what they're posted in the comments and/or their Q&A section, apologizes if I've misunderstood anything.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:03
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Echophonic posted:Delta Green sounds like a clusterfuck with how many people have questions like "how do I get all the PDF files". They have actually just made things even more complicated: the $300 "NEW AGE" tier gets you all printed books and all new PDFs funded by the project; the $350 "OLD WAYS" tier gets you NEW AGE plus all the old Delta Green PDFs.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:06
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Cyphoderus posted:That is literally the Storyteller system But he invented it in 2011.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:10
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Crackbone posted:For the exact same reasons I mentioned above. Your mistake is thinking that he wants to move to a traditional publishing model. He already sells to retailers now. A big hit game generally does a 10k print run, he's already managed close to that, with more than half of those sales being a $100 version. He gets more $$$ per copy this way, and he still gets to sell via traditional outlets. So to turn the question around, why do you think it benefits him to buy his games via retail? My reasoning is the "he gets to sell via traditional outlets" part. Really, I totally get that KS is good for designers up front, but if you DO sell via traditional outlets beyond that KS preorder, your product is competing for shelf space and it keeps its place on those shelves longer if the units are actually moving. "Oh, we are sold out of Scythe again? Order two more." And what that shelf position does that KS doesn't is put the product in front of people who don't use Kickstarter. With such a pretty game, it's going to be purchased by some people when they see it. They won't purchase it if they can't see it on a shelf. So IF his intention is to only sell the copies made as part of the KS -- via the KS or via the leftovers going to retail -- and never do another print run, then yeah, sure, it helps him less for you to buy at retail. Doubly so if most of the retailers carrying his games do so via retailer KS backing. If he would do a reprint should the retail copies sell very well, then having units flying off the shelves absolutely helps him more once his KS is well-funded. Scythe is a pretty game with hot art and mechs; of all of his games, it's the one that I think has the broadest appeal, and the one best-suited to a traditional publishing model. Jamey specifically called out the value of his relationships with distributors and retailers in one of his KS blogs (the one about not selling existing inventory of previous products as bundles with new KS), which is not the stance of somebody eschewing traditional publishing.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:40
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Apparently, Garbage Day is coming out... 4 months early? Okay, sounds good?
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Oct 21, 2015 17:40
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homullus posted:My reasoning is the "he gets to sell via traditional outlets" part. Really, I totally get that KS is good for designers up front, but if you DO sell via traditional outlets beyond that KS preorder, your product is competing for shelf space and it keeps its place on those shelves longer if the units are actually moving. "Oh, we are sold out of Scythe again? Order two more." And what that shelf position does that KS doesn't is put the product in front of people who don't use Kickstarter. With such a pretty game, it's going to be purchased by some people when they see it. They won't purchase it if they can't see it on a shelf. If people didn't back it on kickstarter it would never see the shelf Also he gets to sell to retailers through kickstarter as well without having to negotiate with anyone other than the distributors and manufacturers.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:47
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signalnoise posted:If people didn't back it on kickstarter it would never see the shelf I am sorry that you did not read the other posts or the post you are quoting. I am not talking about the benefits of KS vs. not-KS, though: Scythe's KS is already over a million dollars over its funding goal. Does backing a game one million dollars over its goal benefit the designer more than having that product purchased off of shelves after the Kickstarter? I am suggesting (apparently controversially) that at some point, a designer might want a product to live in the retail world beyond KS, and having demand for it outside of the KS helps keep that product in the minds of consumers and retailers.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:00
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homullus posted:I am sorry that you did not read the other posts or the post you are quoting. I am not talking about the benefits of KS vs. not-KS, though: Scythe's KS is already over a million dollars over its funding goal. Does backing a game one million dollars over its goal benefit the designer more than having that product purchased off of shelves after the Kickstarter? I am suggesting (apparently controversially) that at some point, a designer might want a product to live in the retail world beyond KS, and having demand for it outside of the KS helps keep that product in the minds of consumers and retailers. But it already does; I can buy Euphoria and Viviculture from CSI/Amazon right now (well, not Viviculture, but that's because it's inbetween printings).
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Oct 21, 2015 18:04
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Crackbone posted:But it already does; I can buy Euphoria and Viviculture from CSI/Amazon right now (well, not Viviculture, but that's because it's inbetween printings). A product needs a certain amount of demand to have a successful Kickstarter. A product needs a certain amount of demand post-KS to live in retail. At some point past the Kickstarter's funding goal, an additional purchase benefits a designer more in the latter than in the former, by keeping the designer's product on the shelves. The fact that you can still buy Viticulture and Euphoria in stores now supports my point, not yours. Why not just admit that you didn't read my original post fully, or didn't understand it? Edit: this can't be entertaining for the thread, I'm done posting about it. We can talk about it via PM if you like! homullus fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 18:14
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inklesspen posted:They have actually just made things even more complicated: the $300 "NEW AGE" tier gets you all printed books and all new PDFs funded by the project; the $350 "OLD WAYS" tier gets you NEW AGE plus all the old Delta Green PDFs. This is what they shuld have done in the beginning. Is the $300 tier equal to what you get if you buy them all 1:1, value-wise? I'm so loving confused by what's an add on, what isn't, etc. now. I hate Kickstarters like this.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:19
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Evil Mastermind posted:In other news, I was just reminded that 7th Continent exists and is still going; they just broke $900k. Reminder that it's basically a Choose Your Own Adventure book with every paragraph printed on a different card and they're padding the play time by including the time it takes to read out each card. It's poo poo. Don't back it.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:26
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dwarf74 posted:Apparently, Garbage Day is coming out... 4 months early? I'm not exactly sure how you're trying to convey that so I'll just assume it is happy confusion. We put the delivery date a lot farther back than we thought we'd actually have it ready. It keeps people happy. We were mainly worried about the can not being ready because we had to custom make it but also keep it the same dimensions as the playtest cans I was using. Right now we're finalizing the play-mat artwork and getting the retail packaging right.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:26
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Yep, stunned, happy confusion. I think it's spectacular you're beating your goals.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:31
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homullus posted:A product needs a certain amount of demand to have a successful Kickstarter. A product needs a certain amount of demand post-KS to live in retail. At some point past the Kickstarter's funding goal, an additional purchase benefits a designer more in the latter than in the former, by keeping the designer's product on the shelves. The fact that you can still buy Viticulture and Euphoria in stores now supports my point, not yours. I'm not sure at what point retailers would be like, "that kickstarter was to successful, no one else will want to buy that game!" instead of just "wow look at how successful that kickstarter was, lets get some." I mean i guess if they dont move off the shelves of the store that would be a telling sign but that happens with brand new games that dont have kickstarters also. Your assumption is that having a game sold at retail will increase its total sales, and you also assume that more kickstarter sales will decrease total retail sales. I am kinda of the assumption that most of the people buying the game via kickstarter are not the ones that would pick it up randomly from a store. Sure there will be some cross over, but you are not necessarily tapping the exact same market, and a large amount of kickstarter success will probably get more stores interested.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:31
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homullus posted:A product needs a certain amount of demand to have a successful Kickstarter. A product needs a certain amount of demand post-KS to live in retail. At some point past the Kickstarter's funding goal, an additional purchase benefits a designer more in the latter than in the former, by keeping the designer's product on the shelves. The fact that you can still buy Viticulture and Euphoria in stores now supports my point, not yours. Your original quote was: quote:Buying at retail makes it more likely a store would order yet another copy to replace the one you bought Your misconception here is that having a product on retail shelves is somehow the main driver for sales. Some of the simpler games that have jumped into big-box distribution, that might be true. But games like Scythe aren't going to get into Target. Niche game purchases are driven by reviews or playing the game and wanting your own copy. Demand is generated by direct exposure, not sitting on a shelf. Shipping more copies via KS means you are delivering directly to people; people who are more likely to play it and be enthusiastic about it (Kickstarter overenthusiasm is definitely a thing). You're more likely to generate demand by having 10,000 owners who want to show off their new toy than by having 5000 owners and 5000 sitting on store shelves with 100 other titles. It is true that KS takes away from retail sales, but the point is it's far more beneficial to sell via KS then back-fill retail demand. Retailers will order a game if people are asking to buy it - if the initial KS doesn't generate more demand then you still win, as you've fulfilled demand and done so in a more profitable, and risk-free way. Crackbone fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 18:40
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