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cliffdiver posted:Speaking of which, once they introduce the Patriarch and Matriarch is it true that the boss is going to be assigned by map? I guess custom maps will still be random but it'll be kind of dumb when the map vote comes up and everyone goes 'Don't vote Volter Manor I hate fighting Hans' or some other similar scenario. I would imagine it will be a random boss. Hans would be much better if he did not just straight up one shot you in his final phase. Runs at you at mach-jesus, one shot melees you before you can blink. Not that fun. Even high level zerkers struggle against his brutal melee onslaught.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:07
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My main issue with Hans remains his stupid "you die now" melee rush, it's so loving lame.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:08
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Require More Fire posted:My main issue with Hans remains his stupid "you die now" melee rush, it's so loving lame. It's definitely the icing on the poo poo cake.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:15
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Require More Fire posted:My main issue with Hans remains his stupid "you die now" melee rush, it's so loving lame.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:56
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Elysiume posted:My favorite is in solo when you can kite the drain for ages but eventually he'll get you anyway. you can't kill him if he doesn't drain you
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Oct 21, 2015 17:02
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Ruggington posted:you can't kill him if he doesn't drain you he takes damage with his shield up, just BARELY any damage. That damage is totally negated when he grabs a person and heals. Yes, I've tested this.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:05
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Elysiume posted:There's really no way to play around it. The fight in general sucks. My favorite is in solo when you can kite the drain for ages but eventually he'll get you anyway. I wish they'd halve both his health and charge speed. Maybe give his grenades a bit more visibility and punch, since those are the only part of the fight that are interesting. You play around it with zerkers, its just frustrating if your zerker isn't on their game and getting between you and Hans. Also try being in mid-air when he does his initial melee, I think it'll knock you back a fair distance away. Hopping around and using the boomstick knockback is something too.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:06
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I'm just gonna come out and say that Hans is not fun at all.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:10
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Hans is just bullshit right now, and it's honestly really frustrating that TWI haven't sent a quick patch to fix it, or those that post in the thread haven't at least acknowledged our complaints. It's just not fun to deal with when he just chooses a player to die. Don't pass Go, don't collect 200 Dosh, Hans looked at you and now you're dead even faster than his pre-nerf machine guns. Those machine guns, as frustrating as they are, at least didn't make Hans un-fun enough that I didn't want to play. Now though, even if you know what was coming there's a very good chance that you simply won't physically be able to react in time. And the times you do manage to get out your combat knife/box cutter/scalpel and block to mitigate the damage from "instant death" to a mere "oh god that hurts", Hans will go "Oh there's a player within 5 meters of me, time to use my melee attack again!" and repeat until dead. Seriously, buff the grenades, nerf the melee. Grenades can generally be dodged with players paying attention, especially now that they have big red markers. Maybe give the grenades an extra second of fuse time in response to buffing the blast/poison damage.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:17
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Skoll posted:I'm just gonna come out and say that Hans is not fun at all. I mean they've outlined why they're going with months between larger content packs (and even done the silly "beta for an early access beta" thing) but for the whole "we need your feedback during the development of the game!" EA premise this is pretty sad.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:27
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Alkydere posted:Seriously, buff the grenades, nerf the melee. Grenades can generally be dodged with players paying attention, especially now that they have big red markers. Maybe give the grenades an extra second of fuse time in response to buffing the blast/poison damage.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:31
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Alereon posted:I'd actually say shorter range and more damage with a shorter fuse time. Maybe make the poison strength scale with how much poison you take? I feel like I currently spend too much time poisoned because I got forced into the edge of a gas cloud for a fraction of a second, but otherwise the grenades are trivial to avoid. Either way, I think the Grenades really should be the biggest "skill check" since they mostly rely on the players paying attention. Having Hans go "You die." is just not fun, be it with his previously somewhat strong guns, and now his way too strong melee. Meanwhile dying to a grenade is...annoying but it's more likely to feel that it's your fault. Hans does need to pose a threat, even to players that have fought him 100+ times, but he shouldn't have the ability to single out one player to instantly die no matter what, even if they're clairvoyant. Because this sums up my views pretty well: RoadCrewWorker posted:Yeah, i still have a fantastic time the 10 waves before him but that fight being so sucky has kept me from going back into the game for weeks now. Consistently ending on a frustrating note is the worst "tension arc" a match could have. EVERYTHING ELSE is fine and wonderful. I mean, I can easily have a complete blast on Commando even though it's easily the most boring and frustrating class to play right now. Then Hans shows up and my choices are "quit, or watch Hans reduce the team to 1 player who spends 20+ minutes kiting before one or the other dies."
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Oct 21, 2015 18:45
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I'd like to add that it's no fun playing 10 rounds as demo, then having to switch to something else for the boss. Hans is like 75% of the reason I don't play more often. The other 25% is not wanting to burn out before new content.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:47
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Kazvall posted:I'd like to add that it's no fun playing 10 rounds as demo, then having to switch to something else for the boss. Hans is like 75% of the reason I don't play more often. The other 25% is not wanting to burn out before new content. The damage resistance is pretty dumb.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:54
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fun fact: on HOE they made Hans final stage harder by adding a bunch of midtier enemies who spawn in right on top of you. Hans? More like hans, sirens, husks, and 
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Oct 21, 2015 19:02
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Alereon posted:I'd actually say shorter range and more damage with a shorter fuse time. Maybe make the poison strength scale with how much poison you take? I feel like I currently spend too much time poisoned because I got forced into the edge of a gas cloud for a fraction of a second, but otherwise the grenades are trivial to avoid. Perhaps making the gas similar to the Spitters acid pool from Left 4 Dead 2. Where if you get out of the area right away you take a little bit of damage but the longer you stay in it the damage scales exponentially. That way if you are paying attention you only get slightly damaged but if you have tunnel vision you'll choke to death real quick. It also will keep people from staying in one area for too long and acts as a temporary area denial.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:33
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Just remove Hans and make the "boss" round only Scrakes and FPs.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:34
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Kazvall posted:Just remove Hans and make the "boss" round only Scrakes and FPs. Half Scrake, Half FP, Siren head. We will call it: Flerakein
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Oct 21, 2015 19:44
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Mesadoram posted:Half Scrake, Half FP, Siren head. Sold.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:47
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Revolver Bunker posted:Perhaps making the gas similar to the Spitters acid pool from Left 4 Dead 2. Where if you get out of the area right away you take a little bit of damage but the longer you stay in it the damage scales exponentially. That way if you are paying attention you only get slightly damaged but if you have tunnel vision you'll choke to death real quick. It also will keep people from staying in one area for too long and acts as a temporary area denial. This all the way. Explosive grenades fill some of the same roles, if shorter-lived, but the gas's lack of range declination seems to create instant armor-strippers in corridors. If you wanted to keep the gas mechanic as-is, then the medic should at least be able to cure it with darts. By the way, is it supposed to make sense that nerve gas destroys armor?
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Oct 21, 2015 19:50
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Require More Fire posted:My main issue with Hans remains his stupid "you die now" melee rush, it's so loving lame. His melee rush would be okay if one swipe didn't do 60 damage so you a) can't survive another swipe and b) can't avoid another swipe.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:14
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I played my first round of Suicidal last night and holy gently caress the Zeds move fast, good fun though. Is there any actual EXP increase from Hard-> Suicidal like there is from Normal->Hard or is it purely from a more zeds to slot sorta thing? I couldn't spot a difference.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:24
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50 health is also way too high to impose a low health movement penalty. I mean low health movement penalties are bullshit anyway but if you gotta have one at least put it at 20 or 25 health. Not that it solves the problem of Hans' 1-2 instakill but it's a start.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:26
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Mesadoram posted:Half Scrake, Half FP, Siren head. So it would be like Goro from Mortal Kombat but a head that screams, two arms would be grinders, one other with a chainsaw, and just for fun replace the last arm with a husk cannon. Zomborgon posted:This all the way. Explosive grenades fill some of the same roles, if shorter-lived, but the gas's lack of range declination seems to create instant armor-strippers in corridors. A good medic should be able to mitigate the gas with no problem as the game is right now. Medics past level 10 should also be able to repair partial armor. I did always find the gas attack odd since you can equip a gas mask on your character. Maybe call it an acid cloud or something.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:29
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Have a high level zerk, get a medic that's at least 20 and just have the zerk tank Hans forever, that's how I've killed him since the last update. Even then a low level zerk can still mitigate a lot of damage via blocking and keep his agroo on himself.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:49
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Alteisen posted:Have a high level zerk, get a medic that's at least 20 and just have the zerk tank Hans forever, that's how I've killed him since the last update. Works right up until the point that Hans decides to activate his nitro-booster and go after someone else. Like, say, the Medic. A Zerker and a Medic (or at least guys with med-guns) is practically required but by no means actually guarantee of a victory no matter how good they are just because Hans can suddenly decide that one of the non-zerker players is annoying him.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:59
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Flipswitch posted:I played my first round of Suicidal last night and holy gently caress the Zeds move fast, good fun though. Is there any actual EXP increase from Hard-> Suicidal like there is from Normal->Hard or is it purely from a more zeds to slot sorta thing? I couldn't spot a difference. You get more experience per kill for each step up. It's not a huge increase per kill, but between the modest increase plus more Zeds, it all adds up very quickly.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:32
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Hans is the funniest part of the game if you have decent-leveled Zerks fighting him. I was in a pub last night where five dudes (including me) wailed on Hans with the Zwei's alt-fire and it was the funniest thing I've seen in KF1 or KF2. Has is almost utterly helpless when he's gangbanged by Zerks; only his BS melee combo can put a dent in you with a good Medic on the team.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:59
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repeatedly slamming hans' stupid face into the dirt is the only good part of fighting him
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Oct 21, 2015 23:14
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So if you hit something with two different weapons, from different perks, how does the game decide which perk gets the experience? I ask because there have been several times when the experience from a Hans kill goes towards medic, despite me being a different perk, and doing most of my damage with that perk's weapons. Does healing and/or taking a few potshots with the medic pistol override everything else I did to Hans?
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Oct 21, 2015 23:23
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I am loving garbage at Hans solo so even when I surprise myself and barely reach the end of a 10 wave HoE solo it's like, welp time to die  Even before they buffed his melee strength.I'm just not Nothing But Headshot or Fleshpound AI wrangling enough to hack it on Suicidal very well the times I've swung by it. Where I left off I'm in this annoying area where Hard waves are not "hard" unless I gently caress up like an idiot around a scrake or pound, but Suicidal, along with ammo count/cost changes, reminds me I'm not actually that great at aiming under pressure (and gorefasts don't panic while on fire so it's less safe to sprinkle them with the CnB them in an ammo efficient manner). Kazvall posted:I'd like to add that it's no fun playing 10 rounds as demo, then having to switch to something else for the boss. Hans is like 75% of the reason I don't play more often. The other 25% is not wanting to burn out before new content. Yeah. I would't tell people who WANT to do that they are playing wrong. But if you are "doing it wrong" for sticking with your perk and it's perk weaponry, that's a problem. "Why the gently caress are you using your gunslinger weapons as gunslinger instead of switching to today's optimal build?"
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Oct 21, 2015 23:24
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I've been playing parry berserker lately and if you got a medic on you and you can parry consistently, it makes Hans almost laughable. I just got out of a game where everyone else ran out of ammo and started needling Hans with pistols to death while he just kept getting parried.
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Oct 22, 2015 00:06
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Revolver Bunker posted:So it would be like Goro from Mortal Kombat but a head that screams, two arms would be grinders, one other with a chainsaw, and just for fun replace the last arm with a husk cannon. Even though their engine would not support it, I love the idea of randomised mix-n-match zeds. A bloat comes jogging and wheezing at you with a chainsaw arm or crawler legs.
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Oct 22, 2015 00:39
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Gromit posted:Even though their engine would not support it, I love the idea of randomised mix-n-match zeds. A bloat comes jogging and wheezing at you with a chainsaw arm or crawler legs. I'm imagining a scorpion spitting acid and waving a chain-stinger about. Terrifying, truly. It's like if Spore was built on Silent Hill assets.
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Oct 22, 2015 00:46
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Just got out of playing some tonight and staring at the Demolitions level up panel and... my problem with the class is it's level ups are entirely unexciting. Every 5 levels you get one more ammo for all your perk weapons... but not your grenades, oh well! Also you do a bit more damage and become less likely to blow yourself completely to pieces. Perkwise a lot of its perks are uninspired or extremely niche in use until you get to level 25 where Nuke is. There is also little choice between what is the best to take at most break points, or both perks are so uninteresting/useless you just pick whichever you prefer. Unstable Dynamite is so good why bother with giving everyone else on your team a single grenade? You explode when you almost die or you take marginally less (explosive?) damage and sometimes your teammates get that too. Siren Resistence is unquestionable and if you put it on a tier with anything else you're going to ignore the other perk because gently caress Sirens. Off-Perk, On-Perk: do 10% more damage with other perks weapons (takes away from using class weapons) or you stumble things harder, not particularly interesting. And then you get Nuke, and by god I can't wait to try out Nuke. What's the other Zed time perk? I can't even remember now, but it doesn't sound as cool as Nuke.
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Oct 22, 2015 01:03
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If on-perk drastically reduced self damage and shortened the fuse length, Demo would be more playable, I think.
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Oct 22, 2015 01:16
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on-perk lets you stun fp's with on contact grenades
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Oct 22, 2015 01:21
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My problem with Demo is how many of my rounds mysteriously fail to detonate. Cloaked stalkers only explain so many vanishing explosives!
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Oct 22, 2015 01:22
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Alereon posted:My problem with Demo is how many of my rounds mysteriously fail to detonate. Cloaked stalkers only explain so many vanishing explosives! We're actually loading our guns with leftover ammo from Red Orchestra 2. It's a cost cutting measure.
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Oct 22, 2015 01:24
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Alereon posted:My problem with Demo is how many of my rounds mysteriously fail to detonate. Cloaked stalkers only explain so many vanishing explosives! I think dead bodies can act as blockers as I get duds when I'm shooting low and crawler corpses seem to be to blame. This is especially bad if you upped the coolness level by increasing the corpse count.
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Oct 22, 2015 02:28
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