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The Insect Court posted:Legally, probably nothing, given that I already said I am hesitant to toss religious figures and political leaders into jail cells for anything short of what are very clear acts of incitement in the criminal sense. So, where does it become 'incitement in the criminal sense'? Bear in mind an Israeli (Palestinian) child has just been arrested for some Facebook posts.
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Oct 23, 2015 08:49
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Earlier today a terrorist in the west bank attacked and attempted to stab Rabbi Arik Asherman of "Rabbis for Human Rights": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agqi6akkc20 Yes, the terrorist is a settler and the police released a statement that Rabbi Asherman staged a violent provocation against settlers. Rabbi Asherman and other members of Rabbis For Human Rights went to the village of Awata to help Palestinian farmers to harvest olives from their orchards, which is clearly dangerous incitement worthy of getting beaten and almost stabbed over. This sorta poo poo happens almost every day.
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Oct 23, 2015 14:28
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Earlier today a terrorist in the west bank attacked and attempted to stab Rabbi Arik Asherman of "Rabbis for Human Rights":  What the gently caress is wrong with these people.
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Oct 23, 2015 15:50
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Earlier today a terrorist in the west bank attacked and attempted to stab Rabbi Arik Asherman of "Rabbis for Human Rights": Will they kill this terrorist and destroy his family's home?
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Oct 23, 2015 16:26
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Kim Jong Il posted:As repugnant as many of the speech may be, it serves a valuable shaming purpose in the west to bring all of the awfulness to light. It's proper that the metric fuckton of Hamas anti-Semitism stained/stain the cause of Palestinian nationalism, and while there aren't brigades of Kachites marching through the streets, the NRP types need to be taken down a notch, and made to understand that their continued escalation is materially hurting the cause of Zionism. It's just that both of these have to be dealt with in a smart, targeted way, and in many and most cases they're not. What in the ever motherlovingfuck. Are you unironically defending Bibi defending Hitler 
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Oct 23, 2015 17:19
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Kim Jong Il posted:As repugnant as many of the speech may be, it serves a valuable shaming purpose in the west to bring all of the awfulness to light. It's proper that the metric fuckton of Hamas anti-Semitism stained/stain the cause of Palestinian nationalism, and while there aren't brigades of Kachites marching through the streets, the NRP types need to be taken down a notch, and made to understand that their continued escalation is materially hurting the cause of Zionism. It's just that both of these have to be dealt with in a smart, targeted way, and in many and most cases they're not. Are you saying that the metric fuckton of anti-Arab racism coming from Likud and other such parties stained/stains the cause of Israeli nationalism, along with more extreme groups like the settlers and those who defend them? On a different subject, I am trying to understand what the justification is for demolishing the homes of people who are A) merely related to someone accused of a crime, and B) not in Israeli territory. It can't be a legal action, since it isn't within Israeli jurisdiction. It can't be a moral thing, as it is targeting people for merely being related to someone who has committed a crime or been accused of committing a crime. It can't be as a deterrent, because if that were the case you would think we would have seen evidence that it works as a deterrent, when it seems to do the opposite. I am trying to figure out why the targeting of civilians is somehow okay in these cases.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:39
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Venom Snake posted:What in the ever motherlovingfuck. Are you unironically defending Bibi defending Hitler No he is saying that lying is good as long as it hurts people he doesn't like. Wait poo poo
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Oct 23, 2015 17:58
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Broken Mind posted:On a different subject, I am trying to understand what the justification is for demolishing the homes of people who are A) merely related to someone accused of a crime, and B) not in Israeli territory. It can't be a legal action, since it isn't within Israeli jurisdiction. It can't be a moral thing, as it is targeting people for merely being related to someone who has committed a crime or been accused of committing a crime. It can't be as a deterrent, because if that were the case you would think we would have seen evidence that it works as a deterrent, when it seems to do the opposite. I am trying to figure out why the targeting of civilians is somehow okay in these cases. It advances the cause of ethnic cleansing while pretending it's justice.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:55
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Remember earlier I mentioned that a kid had been arrested for a Facebook post? Well, turns out the only democracy in the Middle East has arrested three kids for that and imprisoned them without trial. The father of one of the dead attackers has also been imprisoned without trial for daring to protest withholding of his son's corpse. Two Israeli courts ordered his release so boom, out come the administrative detention orders. http://dlvr.it/CWTrdN Light unto nations.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:12
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And of course, despite the fact that there is video evidence along with multiple eyewitness accounts, there are people flocking to social media to criticize the assault on the rabbi who had the loving utter nerve to help palestinians harvest olives. What the gently caress is wrong with these people.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:37
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Hong XiuQuan posted:Remember earlier I mentioned that a kid had been arrested for a Facebook post? Well, turns out the only democracy in the Middle East has arrested three kids for that and imprisoned them without trial. The father of one of the dead attackers has also been imprisoned without trial for daring to protest withholding of his son's corpse. Two Israeli courts ordered his release so boom, out come the administrative detention orders. So you were just bullshitting when you talked about wanting to see anyone who explicitly or even implicitly supported or justified violence arrested and locked up? At least when you talked about applying it equally to everyone. I don't see you reconsidering your position on locking up rabbis for incitement.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:40
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The Insect Court posted:So you were just bullshitting when you talked about wanting to see anyone who explicitly or even implicitly supported or justified violence arrested and locked up? You don't see the difference between kids being arrested and imprisoned without trial/charges, and wanting a (presumably) adult rabbi to face charges for the specific crime of incitement?
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Oct 23, 2015 22:00
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The Insect Court posted:So you were just bullshitting when you talked about wanting to see anyone who explicitly or even implicitly supported or justified violence arrested and locked up? What is your opinion on this tho.
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Oct 23, 2015 22:05
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The Insect Court posted:So you were just bullshitting when you talked about wanting to see anyone who explicitly or even implicitly supported or justified violence arrested and locked up? Go back and read what I've said on the topic. I've talked about investigating, arresting and charging and where necessary putting on (fair) trial. I don't talk about imprisoning children without trial. I don't talk about imprisoning someone for requesting his son's corpse without trial and after two courts have already ordered his release. Are you just so inured to the idea of locking up Palestinians without trial you assume that everyone thinks imprisonment without fair trial (or even charge) is the norm?
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Oct 23, 2015 22:18
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Don't be silly, fair trials are for humans, not for Arabs. TIC will evade the question as usual, so I've answered for him. You're welcome.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:24
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Hong XiuQuan posted:Go back and read what I've said on the topic. I've talked about investigating, arresting and charging and where necessary putting on (fair) trial. I don't talk about imprisoning children without trial. I don't talk about imprisoning someone for requesting his son's corpse without trial and after two courts have already ordered his release. Oh, I see. You want them arrested, tried, and imprisoned for incitement, but draw the line at 'administrative detention'? In other words, you still want Palestinians who encourage attacks locked up, you just have concerns about some procedural issues? I assume we can hold you to that and you won't just find another reason to move the goalposts? Are you going to criticize the PA for not arresting and charging imams for incitement? Can I assume you oppose just as strongly the administrative detention of Jewish terrorists? Will you call for the release of settler extremists detained without charges? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 24, 2015 00:14
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The Insect Court posted:Oh, I see. You want them arrested, tried, and imprisoned for incitement, but draw the line at 'administrative detention'? In other words, you still want Palestinians who encourage attacks locked up, you just have concerns about some procedural issues? I assume we can hold you to that and you won't just find another reason to move the goalposts? Are you going to criticize the PA for not arresting and charging imams for incitement? TIC, at this point everyone you are talking to has drawn clear and defensible lines, while you refuse to draw any. You are shadow boxing.
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Oct 24, 2015 00:18
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The Insect Court posted:Oh, I see. You want them arrested, tried, and imprisoned for incitement, but draw the line at 'administrative detention'? In other words, you still want Palestinians who encourage attacks locked up, you just have concerns about some procedural issues? I assume we can hold you to that and you won't just find another reason to move the goalposts? Are you going to criticize the PA for not arresting and charging imams for incitement? You're acting like the rule of law is some sort of minor quibble. What the gently caress is wrong with you.
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Oct 24, 2015 00:22
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For what it's worth reasonable people generally do not believe that being detained without charges is a good thing. This is called "The Law". It's an amazing thing that you should probably be more versed in. I'd have supported not keeping Adolf Eichmann detained without any charges levelled against him, because when you have one law for one person, and another for a different, then you're going down a very dangerous road that will not end well for anyone.
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Oct 24, 2015 00:33
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The Insect Court posted:Oh, I see. You want them arrested, tried, and imprisoned for incitement, but draw the line at 'administrative detention'? In other words, you still want Palestinians who encourage attacks locked up, you just have concerns about some procedural issues? I assume we can hold you to that and you won't just find another reason to move the goalposts? Are you going to criticize the PA for not arresting and charging imams for incitement? I'm fairly sure most people objecting to e.g. the indefinite detention of people at Guantanamo Bay would not have objected so strongly if they had been imprisoned for life after being convicted of a crime at a fair trial.
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Oct 24, 2015 00:35
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Jeez, I knew IC really hated Arabs, but not that much.
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Oct 24, 2015 01:07
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Venom Snake posted:What in the ever motherlovingfuck. Are you unironically defending Bibi defending Hitler You're just now learning that Kim Jong-Il is a terrible person?
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Oct 24, 2015 02:36
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Venom Snake posted:What in the ever motherlovingfuck. Are you unironically defending Bibi defending Hitler Uh, no, I'm disagreeing with Hong.
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Oct 24, 2015 05:05
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Kim Jong Il posted:Uh, no, I'm disagreeing with Hong. Yes, we gather that you think that total dissimulatoon, in the face of decades of effort to make the holocaust an a politically accepted hallmark of atrocity, of the type condemned absolutely by yard vashem, has its upsides.
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Oct 24, 2015 05:08
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In truth, Bibi's policy has from the first to the last been totally suicidal for Israel. He has made the country itself party political in the US and reliant only on historic guilt in Europe. He has created no good will in the west.
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Oct 24, 2015 05:13
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Disinterested posted:In truth, Bibi's policy has from the first to the last been totally suicidal for Israel. He has made the country itself party political in the US and reliant only on historic guilt in Europe. He has created no good will in the west. It has been the habit of pretty much every right-wing government around the world to wreck their countries to get questionable short-term gains. When seen that way, Bibi is jsut a particular incompetent one.
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Oct 24, 2015 05:55
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Kim Jong Il posted:Uh, no, I'm disagreeing with Hong. What exactly are you disagreeing with? That Husseini wasn't the architect of the final solution?
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Oct 24, 2015 07:56
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Kim Jong Il posted:Uh, no, I'm disagreeing with Hong. You said that this was good because you think a man whos been long dead isn't considered enough of a monster by the west? The only real thing Iv seen you do this entire thread is to attempt to truth in the middle indefensible bullshit. Holocaust revisionism is loving awful.
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Oct 24, 2015 08:14
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Look at all these antisemites trying to blame Hitler.
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Oct 24, 2015 09:43
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In entirely different news, since Economy Minister Aryeh Deri refuses to use his unique powers to fast-track the approval of the current gas exploitation and revenue framework signed with Nobel Energy for fields off of Israel's Mediterranean coast, Netanyahu plans to have him resign his post --- and speaking to Israel's "Meet the Press", Deri has expressed a willingness to do so --- leaving Netanyahu as acting minister so he can do it instead. This is the head of a pivotal partner in the coalition (that's all of them, due to the razor-thin margin it has), so he must be getting something out of it either for himself or for Shas's political machine.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:49
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zeal posted:are you trying to contend that the Jim Crow laws weren't 'codified in law and supported by the military'? Cause segregation's in that list, and I've got some bad news about the decades between the 1890s and 1960s. It'd be hard to call them democratic, given that after Reconstruction ended and federal troops were withdrawn, many Southern areas engaged in blatant vote fraud, and in many others angry mobs of ex-Confederate soldiers literally expelled the elected governments by force and imposed their own instead.
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Oct 24, 2015 20:00
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Main Paineframe posted:It'd be hard to call them democratic, given that after Reconstruction ended and federal troops were withdrawn, many Southern areas engaged in blatant vote fraud, and in many others angry mobs of ex-Confederate soldiers literally expelled the elected governments by force and imposed their own instead. You could say that the Federal troops that enforced desegregation were a military deployment to an unruly region. Only, somewhat unique in history, the region was unruly because they wanted to limit democratic rights and freedom. 
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Oct 24, 2015 20:55
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Main Paineframe posted:It'd be hard to call them democratic, given that after Reconstruction ended and federal troops were withdrawn, many Southern areas engaged in blatant vote fraud, and in many others angry mobs of ex-Confederate soldiers literally expelled the elected governments by force and imposed their own instead. No it wouldn't. It would in fact, be very easy to call them democratic and legally sanctioned. Stomping on black people has a long and proud history in America that binds the nation together as they vote democratically to keep them niggers in line somewhere far away from the ballot box.
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Oct 24, 2015 20:59
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Disinterested posted:Yes, we gather that you think that total dissimulatoon, in the face of decades of effort to make the holocaust an a politically accepted hallmark of atrocity, of the type condemned absolutely by yard vashem, has its upsides. Literally nothing you're discussing any relevance at all to what I said.
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Oct 24, 2015 22:29
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It's getting to the point now where I'm starting to have active contempt towards people who self-censor about Israel around their zionist family members or friends for the sake of "harmony"
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Oct 25, 2015 01:22
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Let's keep it 100; sometimes no matter how strongly you feel about something you should probably bite your tongue about it. I totally get what you're talking about but hey, you gotta pick your battles.
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Oct 25, 2015 01:24
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Ultramega posted:Let's keep it 100; sometimes no matter how strongly you feel about something you should probably bite your tongue about it. I totally get what you're talking about but hey, you gotta pick your battles. This, and I can't remember the last time an argument over the loving Thanksgiving table ended in both sides walking away more enlightened and with different opinions than when they went in.
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Oct 25, 2015 02:54
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XMNN posted:It's perfectly consistent to think that it is ok to lock someone up if they have been charged with or convicted of a crime but not if they haven't. In fact this is (theoretically) pretty much the entire basis of western legal systems. Of course, there are very obvious objections to administrative detention(in Israel or elsewhere). It's just that it's a staggeringly obvious dodge when H.X. implies he wants Israeli police tossing Arab-Israelis in jail for Facebook posts supporting the current wave of 'resistance' as long as certain basic procedural safeguards are met. If he thinks that the people responsible for social media posts like these belong in jail, then it hasn't been very apparent given the nonstop link spam of "evil Rabbi says a thing" posts. All I'm saying is that if someone is champing at the bit to lock up rabbis who say things like "It's acceptable to kill disabled terrorists" must either also insist that any Muslim religious authority who says something along the lines of "It's acceptable to carry out attacks against Jewish civilians" belongs in an Israeli prison(as long as they get arrested by Israeli police and convicted by Israeli courts), or by definition then it's not the content of the speech that is disturbing but the identity of speaker.
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Oct 25, 2015 03:13
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The Insect Court posted:All I'm saying is that if someone is champing at the bit to lock up rabbis who say things like "It's acceptable to kill disabled terrorists" must either also insist that any Muslim religious authority who says something along the lines of "It's acceptable to carry out attacks against Jewish civilians" belongs in an Israeli prison(as long as they get arrested by Israeli police and convicted by Israeli courts), or by definition then it's not the content of the speech that is disturbing but the identity of speaker. Your example was in Gaza. If any imam within Israel said anything similar, they would in fact be in an Israeli prison. Radical Muslim groups within Israel such as the Islamic Movement are very careful to couch their rhetoric in generalities; members who fail to do so (such as Raed Salah) run the risk of imprisonment for incitement. Unlike your example of "evil rabbis who said a thing" and are free to do so, because, hey, it's not like Arabs count. Lum_ fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Oct 25, 2015 |
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Oct 25, 2015 04:28
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:This, and I can't remember the last time an argument over the loving Thanksgiving table ended in both sides walking away more enlightened and with different opinions than when they went in. Actually, they don't deserve any of my delicious turkey, the shitheads. 
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Oct 25, 2015 06:24
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