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I believe Harry later after his trip to Azkaban looks back on this event in the context of the Milgram experiment and concludes Hermione was a lot stronger than he initially gave her credit for.
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# ? Oct 20, 2015 16:18 |
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# ? May 17, 2024 21:02 |
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This situation is, in some ways, a lower-stakes version of the Milgram Experiment where subjects are asked to "kill" a subject and nearly everyone obeys. I know he references that at some point, but I'm not sure if he's aware of the comparison here. e: f,b
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# ? Oct 21, 2015 15:24 |
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Chapter 16: Lateral Thinking Part Fifteen quote:
I don’t buy this. Why would Hermione be less likely to resent being singled out? Has she previously shown any signs of being a weak person or of possessing low self-esteem? Quite the contrary – she’s shown sufficiently strength of character to stand up to Quirrell. quote:
I’m not sure if Quirrell’s public highlighting of Malfoy’s manipulativeness is doing Malfoy’s reputation any good. quote:
This is starting to remind me of that Troper Tale in the old TV Tropes thread, the one about how a Troper fought off his bullies with a pencil and made them cry, after which his whole class applauded.
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# ? Oct 22, 2015 08:48 |
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JosephWongKS posted:I’m not sure if Quirrell’s public highlighting of Malfoy’s manipulativeness is doing Malfoy’s reputation any good. Remember that in this story, being manipulative consists entirely of going 'Hello, I am very intelligent and I am extremely clever and manipulative. Look how manipulated you are.' And then another character going 'Oh no! He's manipulating me! I better manipulate back!'
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# ? Oct 22, 2015 08:50 |
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I think you're not supposed to read it "Hermione won't resent being singled out" but "Hermione came pre-singled out by quirrel, so instead of another student going 'malroy shot me what a jerk' he's just a footnote compared to what a terrible person Hermione thinks quirrel is."
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# ? Oct 22, 2015 10:48 |
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JosephWongKS posted:This is starting to remind me of that Troper Tale in the old TV Tropes thread, the one about how a Troper fought off his bullies with a pencil and made them cry, after which his whole class applauded. I wouldn't suppose we could have that tale for reference, could we?
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# ? Oct 22, 2015 10:53 |
Furia posted:I wouldn't suppose we could have that tale for reference, could we? edit: Alternately, google shitthatdidnthappen.txt. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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# ? Oct 22, 2015 11:21 |
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Furia posted:I wouldn't suppose we could have that tale for reference, could we? I think my memory had gotten mixed up and I'd conflated this Troper Tale: quote:
with this Troper Tale: quote:
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# ? Oct 22, 2015 12:40 |
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Nah, you're thinking of this onequote:One time, this troper got pushed around by a bully at school. Having had enough he gathered his Nakama and challenged the bully. The smug jerk, thinking he was guranteed victory, accepted. We met on the roof of the school after class. He Begun by taunting me about the PTSD he knew I had. Suddenly, his goons grabbed my friends. Having been forced to a fight, I moved into my fighting stance. He Began to change. I stood relaxedly, simply informing him that "The predator is now the prey." He slowed. I stared him down. The bully, outmatched.Suddenly He Began to reveal he knew about my aspergers and asexuality too. That was my berserk button. I attacked, a staggering barrage that laid him low. Knowing defeat, He Began to crawl away, as his friends stared in awe. "This kid.. is.. inhuman..". I walked towards his friends and snapped a pencil as I would their spines Heh. They gathered their wounded leader, and I rested, knowing that justice had prevailed.
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# ? Oct 22, 2015 18:08 |
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reignonyourparade posted:I think you're not supposed to read it "Hermione won't resent being singled out" but "Hermione came pre-singled out by quirrel, so instead of another student going 'malroy shot me what a jerk' he's just a footnote compared to what a terrible person Hermione thinks quirrel is." Of course, he could have shot Crabbe or Goyle since their loyalty is guaranteed. Or he could have shot Quirrel. Whether or not you accept that Hermione herself wouldn't resent Draco for choosing her (which she would), and whether or not you accept that other people wouldn't think he was an arsehole for choosing her (which they would), she's still not the only valid target.
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# ? Oct 23, 2015 01:52 |
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Tiggum posted:Of course, he could have shot Crabbe or Goyle since their loyalty is guaranteed. Or he could have shot Quirrel. Whether or not you accept that Hermione herself wouldn't resent Draco for choosing her (which she would), and whether or not you accept that other people wouldn't think he was an arsehole for choosing her (which they would), she's still not the only valid target. He is going to be a jerk ANYWAY, but by targeting a mudblood he gets slytherin approval which he values most. Shooting crabbe/goyle is viable but that makes him untrustworthy, while shooting Quirrel has unpredictable consequences. Hermione is a great target all-around.
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# ? Oct 23, 2015 14:32 |
Draco ignored the best target of all: Harry. It gets him respect from the Slytherins and Harry is arrogant enough to take it as a recognition of his unparalleled vague dangerousness.
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# ? Oct 23, 2015 14:50 |
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I mean, Draco isn't nearly as smart or good at reading people as the story thinks he is. No-one is. The idea that the super clever nerd can make everyone do whatever he wants is a huge fantasy for guys like Yud.
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# ? Oct 23, 2015 20:43 |
Yeah this is, if anything, showing how Hermione is way more mature than any of these jokers, including Quirrell
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# ? Oct 24, 2015 05:16 |
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Chapter 16: Lateral Thinking Part Sixteen quote:
This isn’t being “dangerous”, this is just being “creepy”. quote:
And these are just Eliezer’s transparent fantasies about how he’d be an incredible badass killing machine if only he’d condescend to stoop to such levels of barbarism.
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# ? Oct 25, 2015 15:13 |
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That right there is the exact point where I just gave up and stopped reading. I managed to hang on this long by assuming it would get better due to all the rave reviews, but this scene is just too goddamn stupid for anything to justify it.
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# ? Oct 25, 2015 15:24 |
Well, counting people as "objects that can be used for combat" is rather telling. Not to mention half of those shouldn't even count - removing the floor in order to reveal a spike pit isn't exactly a use of the floor. I honestly have no idea what he's trying to prove here, apart from being able to spout contrived bullshit.
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# ? Oct 25, 2015 15:43 |
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It's hard to draw the line between Eliezer's ideas of "so weird it's funny" and "so weird it's creepy", but I'm pretty sure this is one of the parts where you're actually *supposed* to cringe at Harry's creepiness. IIRC, at some point later on he wonders "am I ever going to live that one down?".
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# ? Oct 25, 2015 16:00 |
Yeah, it's pretty hard to attribute this poo poo to the character when you know that the writer is a genuine nutjob.
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# ? Oct 25, 2015 16:09 |
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Stroth posted:That right there is the exact point where I just gave up and stopped reading. I managed to hang on this long by assuming it would get better due to all the rave reviews, but this scene is just too goddamn stupid for anything to justify it. This is the point where I fell in love, because it was so ridiculous and over the top and horrible that it had to be self parody. But apparently Poe's law was in full effect, and it's quite possible that the person who recommended it to me liked it non-ironically. This makes me sad.
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# ? Oct 25, 2015 16:13 |
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Not knowing a drat thing about who Yud was, I was still charitably thinking "yeah, he's poking fun at things like the wizard duel in the first book and the incredibly dangerous magic they get taught even from first year." The high point for me is just round the corner, and I'm interested to see how it reads now I know who he is.
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# ? Oct 25, 2015 16:19 |
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This might explain part of why the story's so popular. Everyone interpreted it as the side of Poe they preferred and walked away happy.
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# ? Oct 25, 2015 17:49 |
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This is awful, but "Having a Gryffindor attack the enemy is an ordinary use, of course -" is legitimately funny. Well. Comparatively?
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# ? Oct 25, 2015 19:14 |
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The scene reads like an attempt to look into the mind of a future school shooter.chrisoya posted:This is awful, but "Having a Gryffindor attack the enemy is an ordinary use, of course -" is legitimately funny. Well. Comparatively?
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# ? Oct 25, 2015 23:38 |
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anilEhilated posted:Well, counting people as "objects that can be used for combat" is rather telling. Not to mention half of those shouldn't even count - removing the floor in order to reveal a spike pit isn't exactly a use of the floor. NihilCredo posted:It's hard to draw the line between Eliezer's ideas of "so weird it's funny" and "so weird it's creepy", but I'm pretty sure this is one of the parts where you're actually *supposed* to cringe at Harry's creepiness. IIRC, at some point later on he wonders "am I ever going to live that one down?". Cingulate posted:The scene reads like an attempt to look into the mind of a future school shooter.
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 02:44 |
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Tiggum posted:The problem with the scene is the disconnect between Harry's answers and the supposed point of proving that he's dangerous. Someone who was actually dangerous wouldn't come up with unusual uses for objects in the room, they'd just hit you. If it was an exercise in creativity it would be rather macabre for school but it would make sense. It doesn't demonstrate that Harry is dangerous though. Just interpret it as dangerous to himself and you're golden. He's pretty clearly mentally hosed up.
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 04:25 |
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Cingulate posted:The scene reads like an attempt to look into the mind of a future school shooter. nah
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 04:29 |
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Chapter 16: Lateral Thinking Part Seventeen quote:
Now that his classmates are all aware of how creepy Eliezarry is and (presumably) on guard against him, can he still be the most dangerous student in the classroom? The most lethal knife is the one you did not expect, after all. quote:
That’s a good point. I had not noticed that myself. quote:
It’s not clear whether the author intends the readers to admire Quirrell / Eliezarry or to be disgusted by them.
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 04:46 |
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JosephWongKS posted:That’s a good point. Is it though? You don't notice that Harry's ideas are all about how to kill someone because that's where your mind went as well. It's how most people would interpret the task, I think.
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 04:55 |
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Tiggum posted:Is it though? You don't notice that Harry's ideas are all about how to kill someone because that's where your mind went as well. It's how most people would interpret the task, I think. e: Oh yeah, forgot about the "most dangerous person" context. Yeah gently caress Quirrell. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Oct 26, 2015 |
# ? Oct 26, 2015 06:28 |
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No gently caress you Quirrel you're the one who set up the question this way. Proving you're the most dangerous person would surely involve murder. Also I hope they don't drag this poo poo out. But then I remember who wrote this.
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 06:29 |
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If a character just bothered to bring up the quite rational point that "He did that because it's how you intentionally framed the question," this entire scene would be derailed. Or does intent and how you expect words to be taken based on personalities and how brains work not factor into rationality, I can't keep track.
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 06:45 |
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Chapter 16: Lateral Thinking Part Eighteen quote:
I’m not sure about Quirrell’s objective here, whether as a teacher or as a stooge of Voldemort. Is Quirrell trying to rehabilitate Eliezarry’s reputation by giving Eliezarry a chance to show his reluctance to hurt his fellow classmates? quote:
That would have been my choice as well. Quirrell did say “select any student” instead of “select any other student. quote:
What? quote:
My guess is that this mystery guardian angel is the Voldemort-shard within Eliezzary, speaking up to preserve the vessel in which it is embedded.
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 07:59 |
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So what was the lesson and how did Harry dodge it? Quirrell is a bad teacher.
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 08:25 |
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Tiggum posted:So what was the lesson and how did Harry dodge it? Quirrell is a bad teacher. Godbot only knows what the lesson was meant to be.
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 09:04 |
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Tiggum posted:So what was the lesson and how did Harry dodge it? ... Edit - this is a fairly bad book, which conveys a bad philosophy and is utterly inconsistent about its themes and worldbuilding. However, reading it three paragraphs at a time, instead of chapter by chapter, and trying to come up with the worst possible interpretation for those paragraphs is a bad practice which contributes to the thread going full retard. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Oct 26, 2015 |
# ? Oct 26, 2015 13:41 |
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When I first got to the part before this last one, I thought Harry was the most dangerous student because his ideas are impractical, over-the-top, and outright insane, which therefore indicates he's an unpredictable maniac who jumps at the opportunity to get clever, and is going to get himself and people he cares about hurt or killed if he doesn't slow the gently caress down and starts thinking before he opens his mouth. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to end up being the actual point made. Xander77 posted:Edit - this is a fairly bad book, which conveys a bad philosophy and is utterly inconsistent about its themes and worldbuilding. However, reading it three paragraphs at a time, instead of chapter by chapter, and trying to come up with the worst possible interpretation for those paragraphs is a bad practice which contributes to the thread going full retard. This is also true.
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 18:00 |
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Is there a thread like this for My Immortal?
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# ? Oct 26, 2015 18:06 |
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Chapter 17 – Locating the Hypothesis Part One quote:
It took eight entire chapters after Eliezarry made it to Hogwarts (in Chapter Nine) before he finally gets down to experimenting with magic (not counting his “experiments” with Comed-tea). quote:
Either Eliezarry’s fellow students are a lot kinder than most children would be in the face of Eliezarry’s sociopathy and general weirdness (as displayed in the past few chapters), or he’s still coasting on his celebrity as the baby who banished Voldemort.
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# ? Oct 27, 2015 09:36 |
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# ? May 17, 2024 21:02 |
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Who actually has a book with the first ten thousand primes listed. Who would print a book with ten thousand primes. There's zero use to that. Any real use for that information would be computerised.
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# ? Oct 27, 2015 09:43 |