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HEY GAL posted:a modern pike for a modern war English people are terrible at learning languages. And I badly want to go to something like that in the future. Being a lunatic on horseback waving his sword in the air and raving about God and killing the other side makes it all the better. HEY GAL posted:probably, except maurice of nassau gave them in latin too in his book lol I know Martin Luther had started the trend of putting Bibles in non-latin languages, but wasn't Latin still a near universal language for the aristocracy at this point? I've been imagining that when German and Spanish armies meet in the 30 Years War, it's mostly Latin that gets spoken to get the message across. I also emailed a Professor of German History and have acquired more books on the 30 Years War. Some have translated accounts of battles. One has an account written in Ye Olde Scotts
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Oct 27, 2015 11:42
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HEY GAL posted:lots of cav out there Looking at the push of pike, it looks like everyone is angling their pikes downwards, presumably to avoid accidentally poking an eye out. A very reasonable safety precaution, but I can't help but wonder how many people end up staggering away from the push clutching at their groins.
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Oct 27, 2015 11:48
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Tomn posted:Looking at the push of pike, it looks like everyone is angling their pikes downwards, presumably to avoid accidentally poking an eye out. A very reasonable safety precaution, but I can't help but wonder how many people end up staggering away from the push clutching at their groins. edit: crotch height would be dangerous because people would be more likely to fall
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Oct 27, 2015 11:52
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HEY GAL posted:it's lower than that even, you just get hit in the knees and shins a lot. People didn't wear cups then?
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Oct 27, 2015 12:12
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Hazzard posted:People didn't wear cups then?
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Oct 27, 2015 12:37
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I meant at the reenactment. Even a blunt stick hurts a fair amount when it's thick enough. I was imagining everyone, even if not in armour, would have some chest and groin protection concealed beneath their clothes.
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Oct 27, 2015 12:42
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Only the armor wearers are actually wearing protection, and what you see is what we've got. I've got a bruise the side of my palm on my left inner thigh. The musketeers are lightly armored or unarmored but nobody hits them.
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Oct 27, 2015 12:44
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HEMA seems safe by comparison. The occasional stab hurts, but we have better protection.
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Oct 27, 2015 12:55
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Hazzard posted:I know Martin Luther had started the trend of putting Bibles in non-latin languages, but wasn't Latin still a near universal language for the aristocracy at this point? For the Church. I'm not sure J Random Graf von Soldierbro needed or wanted to speak Latin, even in the actual middle ages rather than the early modern period.
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Oct 27, 2015 12:57
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Hazzard posted:HEMA seems safe by comparison. The occasional stab hurts, but we have better protection. Edit: feedmegin posted:For the Church. I'm not sure J Random Graf von Soldierbro needed or wanted to speak Latin, even in the actual middle ages rather than the early modern period. Edit 2: After Gustavus Adolphus was killed, nobody knew what the hell was going on and morale was seriously wavering in the area near where he had last been seen. During this time, one (Lutheran) field chaplain told another "I think the king is wounded" in Latin, to avoid starting a panic. Very useful. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 12:57
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HEY GAL posted:Yeah, I was baffled when I started taking fencing classes and everyone was so tentative about getting hit. I had a dude tell me I should wear big padded gloves when I fought with pikes. And if you ever have any weapon forced through your hand and the handle is a bit rough, you will learn why. I've lost a patch of skin from the basket of my sword being rubbed against my thumb from impacts on the basket. HEY GAL posted:On the one hand, either he can find enough Germans on the other side to talk to or he's picked up enough languages along the way to say "Shoulder pike" in five or six of them. On the other hand, I read somewhere that in Catholic regions, if you were literate at all you probably had a smattering of Latin--the 17th and 18th century Jesuits are well known for their popular plays, and they put those on in Latin, although they'd hand out pamphlets summarizing the action in German first. Edit: In the original writing, is Wallenstein written as Wallenstein or Waldstein? I'm collecting together notes on the original naming of various figures. I have no idea where the change from Waldstein came from. Hazzard fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 13:05
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Hazzard posted:And if you ever have any weapon forced through your hand and the handle is a bit rough, you will learn why. I've lost a patch of skin from the basket of my sword being rubbed against my thumb from impacts on the basket. quote:This confuses me. If they didn't want the common folk reading the Bible and understanding it, why teach them some Latin? Hazzard posted:Edit: In the original writing, is Wallenstein written as Wallenstein or Waldstein? I'm collecting together notes on the original naming of various figures. I have no idea where the change from Waldstein came from. spelling is more of a gentle suggestion than anything else at this time, I've run into a guy whose name is spelled von Ossa zu Dehla, von Ossa zu Thal, von Ossa zu Lehna, and a whole shitload of other things. Sometimes Pappenheim spells his last name with a B.
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Oct 27, 2015 13:09
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HEY GAL posted:you don't wear thin leather gloves? HEY GAL posted:who says they don't want the common folk understanding the bible? HEY GAL posted:either/both/neither/sometimes there's also a J or two in there.
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Oct 27, 2015 13:13
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Yeah, it's not that medieval Christians didn't want people understanding the bible, it's just that they knew translation is dodgy at best and didn't want people getting the wrong idea. That's how you get hosed up heresies and the like. Translation is fine for conveying meaning, but a lot of the nuances and emphasis can fall by the wayside. When you're discussing the fine points of morality and theology that's a big deal. A modern example of this would be the importance that Muslims place on reading the Koran in Arabic. Now put that back in an era with no public education and where literacy itself isn't nearly as common as it is today.
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Oct 27, 2015 13:19
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yo cyrano there's lots of firearms in the links i posted
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Oct 27, 2015 13:20
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HEY GAL posted:spelling is more of a gentle suggestion than anything else at this time, I've run into a guy whose name is spelled von Ossa zu Dehla, von Ossa zu Thal, von Ossa zu Lehna, and a whole shitload of other things. Sometimes Pappenheim spells his last name with a B. Maybe he had a cold those days. 
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Oct 27, 2015 13:21
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VanSandman posted:Maybe he had a cold those days. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 13:28
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Wallenstein is that spider from Perdido Street Station? E: got my books mixed up. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 13:34
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Cyrano4747 posted:Yeah, it's not that medieval Christians didn't want people understanding the bible, it's just that they knew translation is dodgy at best and didn't want people getting the wrong idea. That's how you get hosed up heresies and the like. Translation is fine for conveying meaning, but a lot of the nuances and emphasis can fall by the wayside. When you're discussing the fine points of morality and theology that's a big deal. A modern example of this would be the importance that Muslims place on reading the Koran in Arabic. Now put that back in an era with no public education and where literacy itself isn't nearly as common as it is today. Plus, you know, peasants are illiterate anyways and there aren't enough Bibles to go around for priests (well, OK, that was before the printing press). And yes, the "Catholics don't want peeps to reed the Bible" is a surprising American protestant (I think) conspiracy.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:55
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wrt. the flashlight chat: edit: and his other masterpiece: 
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Oct 27, 2015 15:08
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JcDent posted:Plus, you know, peasants are illiterate anyways and there aren't enough Bibles to go around for priests (well, OK, that was before the printing press). Not all of them, tho. Remember that in many places, it was just ordinary peasants doing all the local management and some of those had to be able to read or write in order to carry out their tasks. Like reeves and stuff in England. Can't really manage poo poo if you can't do any bookkeeping whatsoever. Ginzburg's The Cheese And The Worms is a p famous work about that sort of thing: a miller (millers were well-to-do in many places) who can read reads a bunch and promptly starts getting weird as poo poo ideas about cosmology and stuff and ends up interrogated by the inquisition.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:08
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Hogge Wild posted:edit: and his other masterpiece: Years ago after a range trip some friends and I started reading that while cooking lunch. We had to do it in shifts because whoever was reading would become unable to talk from laughing every couple pages. It's mind-blowingly bad.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:30
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It's a good thing that image is so low-resolution. For a security expert, he seems to be quite unconcerned about someone copying his key from the photograph and sending it to the neighboorhood prankster  On the topic of millers: All of the pre 1900s military logistics stuff I've read places some pretty massive importance on the production of bread- typically in a given region the bottleneck to feeding soldiers was not the grain supply, but the rate at which it could be made into flour. If millers are rich, it stands to reason there are not many millers, so why is that? What's the shortage? Is it too expensive to build mills, or is it too hard to power mills (i.e. is there a shortage of wind or water powered sites on which to build mills)? Keldoclock fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 15:37
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Cyrano4747 posted:Years ago after a range trip some friends and I started reading that while cooking lunch. We had to do it in shifts because whoever was reading would become unable to talk from laughing every couple pages. It's mind-blowingly bad. I was unaware this existed - somebody make a let's read thread Also the existence of this book vexes me doubly, as I was just in the middle of writing a book about practical self defense using halberds
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Oct 27, 2015 16:05
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the weapon is useful but concealed carry might be a bit of a problem
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Oct 27, 2015 16:07
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Nebakenezzer posted:I was unaware this existed - somebody make a let's read thread Please do this. The cover picture alone is just hilariously goony.
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Oct 27, 2015 16:13
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HEY GAL posted:the weapon is useful but concealed carry might be a bit of a problem That's chapter 1. Nature has all sorts of ways of saying do not touch - walking around with a halberd is one of them. Also not being a concealed weapon sidesteps all sorts of laws
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Oct 27, 2015 16:15
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Keldoclock posted:On the topic of millers: All of the pre 1900s military logistics stuff I've read places some pretty massive importance on the production of bread- typically in a given region the bottleneck to feeding soldiers was not the grain supply, but the rate at which it could be made into flour. If millers are rich, it stands to reason there are not many millers, so why is that? What's the shortage? Is it too expensive to build mills, or is it too hard to power mills (i.e. is there a shortage of wind or water powered sites on which to build mills)? Barriers to entry and getting a little bit from a lot of transactions is a pretty good way to get wealthy. I'd be surprised if an army's requirements weren't significantly more than an area could normally create demand for, and milling is probably the step where it's hardest to acquire or move the materials for it.
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Oct 27, 2015 16:18
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Keldoclock posted:On the topic of millers: All of the pre 1900s military logistics stuff I've read places some pretty massive importance on the production of bread- typically in a given region the bottleneck to feeding soldiers was not the grain supply, but the rate at which it could be made into flour. If millers are rich, it stands to reason there are not many millers, so why is that? What's the shortage? Is it too expensive to build mills, or is it too hard to power mills (i.e. is there a shortage of wind or water powered sites on which to build mills)? Early on, it was fairly usual for nobles to control the mills in order to squeeze out profits from the local peasants. And of course you can't build a mill in any old place, and if there's not a just perfect stream to power a water wheel, it takes a significant amount of labor to build a small canal to divert a stream to get power.
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Oct 27, 2015 17:15
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Keldoclock posted:On the topic of millers: All of the pre 1900s military logistics stuff I've read places some pretty massive importance on the production of bread- typically in a given region the bottleneck to feeding soldiers was not the grain supply, but the rate at which it could be made into flour. If millers are rich, it stands to reason there are not many millers, so why is that? What's the shortage? Is it too expensive to build mills, or is it too hard to power mills (i.e. is there a shortage of wind or water powered sites on which to build mills)? Chiefly it's the surge in demand. Suddenly you need twice as many mills, and at the time a mill was an expensive high tech investment. You couldn't just grab twenty peasants and tell them to make a mill, and have it done by Sunday.
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Oct 27, 2015 17:20
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Kemper Boyd posted:Not all of them, tho. Remember that in many places, it was just ordinary peasants doing all the local management and some of those had to be able to read or write in order to carry out their tasks. Like reeves and stuff in England. Can't really manage poo poo if you can't do any bookkeeping whatsoever. And executed, I think. Also, since millers had control of an essential part of the food supply, they were both wealthy and disliked. Similar to modern day lawyers. There's a reason why the Miller in Chaucer is portrayed the way he is.
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Oct 27, 2015 17:35
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sullat posted:And executed, I think. To be fair to the Inquisition, they first let him off lightly and told him to shut up about his dumb bullshit. Which he didn't, which is why they got him kacked. That particular miller reminds me of a modern-day stoner to be honest.
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Oct 27, 2015 17:57
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Mills were openly monopolistic, and you could find yourself in some poo poo if you tried to use a mill other than was customary for your village. And if you tried to mill at home they'd confiscate your grinding stone. One monastery paved their walkway with confiscated stones.
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Oct 27, 2015 18:14
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Kemper Boyd posted:To be fair to the Inquisition, they first let him off lightly and told him to shut up about his dumb bullshit. Which he didn't, which is why they got him kacked. "What if, like, all the universe was, like, milk?"
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Oct 27, 2015 18:29
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100 Years Ago Serbia: still hosed. Western Front: trenches merrily flooding like they did last year. Italian Front: blizzards stopped play. French strategy: Joffre is attempting to crowdsource his next battle (although not interested in what the English have to say).
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Oct 27, 2015 18:52
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JcDent posted:And yes, the "Catholics don't want peeps to reed the Bible" is a surprising American protestant (I think) conspiracy. It's not just American. My Protestant Dad has been saying it for years. I wouldn't be surprised if it's something that came out a few decades after the Reformation in Britain and just permeated through society, because Catholics are awful because we say so.
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Oct 27, 2015 18:55
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HEY GAL posted:That guy was the worst for adding random H es everywhere in the middle of every word. Wallenstein's spelling is OK--it probably reflects a pretty thick accent but it's at least consistent--but he never uses commas or sentence breaks. (Or calls anyone by the second person, which it turns out was not a polite convention since he's the only one who does that. The effect is weird as hell.) Mansfeld's syntax is comprehensible but all I have is his rough drafts so the handwriting is terrible and he never sharpens his pens. Gallas? Great handwriting. Oh boy, handwriting. I could rant about that for an hour or so. John Jellicoe was a great admiral but his handwriting is damned awful. Not sloppy, just tiny and cramped and hard to read. Not as bad as Assheton Curzon-Howe, though, who has the tiniest handwriting I've ever seen. One of my colleagues had a theory that Charles Beresford had a stroke around 1905 or so because his behavior became erratic and his penmanship got worse, on the latter I don't know how they could tell since it always looked like he was trying to write with the wrong hand or he was impersonating a arthritic man with Parkinson's. Fisher, meanwhile, used exclamation marks and underlines like the Time Cube guy. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 19:07
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Oh boy, handwriting. I could rant about that for an hour or so. John Jellicoe was a great admiral but his handwriting is damned awful. Not sloppy, just tiny and cramped and hard to read. Not as bad as Assheton Curzon-Howe, though, who has the tiniest handwriting I've ever seen. One of my colleagues had a theory that Charles Beresford had a stroke around 1905 or so because his writing got worse, frankly I don't know how they could tell since it always looked like he had Parkinson's or was trying to write with the wrong hand. Fisher, meanwhile, used exclamation marks and underlines like the Time Cube guy. oh! when someone has been there before you like two hundred years ago, popped all the seals off with a loving knife, and put them in a separate file which probably damaged them! because the study of wax seals used to be its own thing! HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 19:12
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HEY GAL posted:wallenstein's handwriting is good looking and easy to read, and his ink hasn't faded, but everything that comes out of the office of Leopold, Erzherzog of Further Austria, is a goddamned bitch to read i hate it i hate it so much I thought of some more eccentricities: Francis Bridgeman finished most of his sentences with exclamations. Gordon Moore used Greek letters to mark important bits of text instead of numbers or regular letters. Lewis Bayly's writing reminds me of a sixth-grade girl's with all the loops, but apart from that it could be from a kid practicing cursive. Arthur Wilson wrote everything like it was italics.
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Oct 27, 2015 19:21
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 secretary's handwriting: good looking, well-disciplined, nice mansfeld's signature: sharpen your goddamn pennnnn
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Oct 27, 2015 19:34
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