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Strobe posted:Predator and Engine Upgrade. The long and the short of it is that Chiraneau and Predator gives you very strong dice modification with no actions- Gunner would be even moreso if you wanted to put in the points. This saves your action for boosting, but it also makes your offense still pretty good if you get bumped. The defense on that decimator is going where you want to go, and you need more than the greens to do that. If I see a stress build on a pancake, I just get giddy because none of them have a ton of interesting greens.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:29
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Deviant posted:I had good luck opening with the ion torpedoes to control the board against the opposing heavy hitter. Yeah I put some Ion pulse missiles on my vader for the same idea. My game plan was essentially just expose and run at point blank along its side with the decimator just hoping to force its energy to be dumped into damage on the decimator and being able to grind a tonne of damage while everything else just played normally to help chip away. Killed the rear section but the decimator died first and while the corvette went boom eventually I just lost too much to keep going. Strobe posted:Predator and Engine Upgrade. So its not just me who likes this?  I'm getting less terrible with my builds! Though I do like rebel captive on it purely because I know its coming with a big kill me sign.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:31
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kingcom posted:So its not just me who likes this? You've sussed out most of the Chiraneau builds in the meta, hah! Ysanne, Captive, Something.EU,Predator.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:34
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I was looking at something like this at 98 points. Soontir Fel + Royal Guard TIE + PTL + Autothrusters + TIE Mk 2 Chirpy + Predator + Ysanne + Vader + Gunner + Engine Upgrade Sort of a "here's two motherfuckers that are nowhere near each other, pick your target while the other one fucks you" build.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:38
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Deviant posted:I was looking at something like this at 98 points. I think Stealth Device, Hull Upgrade, or Targeting Computer will do more for Fel than the extra green banks. Very solid build, though, tried and true in tournament play.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:42
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How has the latest wave shaken up the meta? I'm very casual even though I have one or two of everything. I haven't gotten anything from the last wave and am wondering if I should get caught up.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:53
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Panzeh posted:Like for everyone else who can take expose, you get more from a focus action than expose. Also, yeah, the points are also a problem for Corran, otherwise you'd see more Engine Upgrade on him. Usually you just see VI with him. The typical Corran build is actually fairly lean on the points thrown in for upgrades. VI, R2D2, FCS, that's it. To be honest, a Corran without EU is free points for your opponent. If you can't afford it, you can't afford Corran. He has to be able to turn while taking greens, no matter if you're running PtL or VI. Also allows you to actually run away with 3 greens plus boosting.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:56
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Wave 7 has actually done quite a bit too change the meta. Twin laser turret combined with the scoring changes has pushed 2 ship turret builds out of the "#1 best choice forever" spot to merely "good.". This has brought arc dodging lists back a little, along with the reappearance of ships with PS 3-7. Basically, things have opened up a lot, and everything from the two ship builds that have been dominating for the past year, to 3 ship ace lists, to 4 ship builds, to swarms are viable right now.
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Oct 28, 2015 05:02
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It should tell you something that one of the most popular tournament lists post-Wave 7 has a Lambda Shuttle in it 
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Oct 28, 2015 05:18
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The Gate posted:Wave 7 has actually done quite a bit too change the meta. Twin laser turret combined with the scoring changes has pushed 2 ship turret builds out of the "#1 best choice forever" spot to merely "good.". This has brought arc dodging lists back a little, along with the reappearance of ships with PS 3-7. Basically, things have opened up a lot, and everything from the two ship builds that have been dominating for the past year, to 3 ship ace lists, to 4 ship builds, to swarms are viable right now. This is encouraging, I was disappointed with the meta several months ago. It's unfortunate that the FFG model is complete power creep, but that the rest of the meta has opened up is nice at least.
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Oct 28, 2015 05:27
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Booyah- posted:It's unfortunate that the FFG model is complete power creep, but that the rest of the meta has opened up is nice at least. Lack of power creep is part of why I really like X-wing, and honestly I'd probably give up on playing it out side of casual games with wave limits or with squads built from my collection.
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Oct 28, 2015 05:58
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I run and am successful playing with a list that is three ships that have been available since day 1. The only things that have changed are two EPTs (Predator, VI) and one pilot (Wes).
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Oct 28, 2015 06:05
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Lack of power creep (or maybe cuz its power got boosted to such heights that everything else is just catching up?), or rather being able to play with older ships with newer upgrades if it is indeed power creep, is why I look forward to playing with Han + 3Z again after the meta comes around full circle again.  I just really like that drat mini swarm with an arc dodger - with turrets.
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Oct 28, 2015 06:10
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This is a list I'm going to try tomorrow night now my YV-666 has arrived. I just wish Moralo Eval had an EPT so I could run him with daredevil. Chuck a HLC on him and it makes it a very hard to avoid 4 dice attack with a target lock and Greedo. The problem with Bossk and the mangler is that it only works in his primary arc. Firespray-31: · Kath Scarlet (38) Predator (3) Engine Upgrade (4) K4 Security Droid (3) Inertial Dampeners (1) YV-666: · Bossk (35) Daredevil (3) "Mangler" Cannon (4) Engine Upgrade (4) K4 Security Droid (3) · Greedo (1) Total: 99 Bossk is the obvious target because of Greedo but his extra manoeuvrability should keep him getting shots in and should allow Kath to get some solid 4 or 5 dice shots in with her rear arc. If Bossk is unstressed he can 3 hard turn then 1 hard boost to almost talon roll and get shots on anyone trying to tail him. He can also use his red 0 manoeuvre to play mind games with people and cause bumps. If he is stressed then a 1 bank gets him a target lock, followed by boosting 1 hard to still get a shot on anyone trying to tail him using his auxiliary arc. In the initial joust he can just 1 forward or bank for a TL and focus. Ideally he can push through enough damage before going down that Kath can just kite everyone else around mopping up.
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Oct 28, 2015 07:41
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Strobe posted:I run and am successful playing with a list that is three ships that have been available since day 1. The only things that have changed are two EPTs (Predator, VI) and one pilot (Wes). Yeah, I've seen a lot of people on the X-Wing wiki bitching about power creep and "pay to play" since the Episode 7 core set came out with the T-70 and TIE/fo, complaining that the new ships represent power creep because the T-70 doesn't pay literally the same point cost in upgrades for its boost and extra shield that a T-65 would have to pay in points to take them as mods, plus new maneuver dials. The problem with this argument is: 1). The people usually decrying this as power creep are morons. I know this because if a Blue Squadron Novice cost, for example, the 29 points that a Rookie Pilot + EU + Shield Upgrade would cost if you did it that way then literally nobody would ever fly T-70s. Trying to break costs down that way is a foolish endeavor, because nobody flipping out about how their regular TIE Fighters are invalidated (like one guy did across three or four articles) is considering opportunity cost in that equation. The real cost of using a Blue Squadron Novice in your list is that for 24 points, nearly a quarter of your total, all you're getting is a slightly better low PS X-Wing, which is a combination that serves no useful niche...that 24 points could get you two Headhunters if you want cheap blockers, or make a significant down payment on a better heavy-hitter. Wedge Antilles for instance is 29 points. Meanwhile, the cheapest TIE/fo at PS1 costs 15 points per ship with no EPT, meanwhile Black Squadron pilots may not have the shield, target lock, or fancy S-loops, but they cost 14 points, have PS4 (which is better than most other lovely swarm ships like Headhunters) and an EPT slot. 2). Most people are still using ships and cards that were available, as Strobe says, from day one. Maybe they aren't running Wedge and Dutch like we are, but the Falcon, Soontir Fel, Y-Wings...if what was going on was true power creep, people would be abandoning the older ships in favor of new stuff constantly, and while plenty of new ships and cards find places for themselves in the meta as waves go by (IG-2000's, Punishers, the Hound's Tooth, etc) it's kind of silly to accuse a game of power creep when some of the enduring cornerstones of the game since its inception is still one of the earlier ships released for it, even after scoring adjustments and successive waves of new developments. 3). X-Wing has always been "pay to play" because Fat Han and 4B1Z don't just spring forth miraculously from the aether. Nonetheless it's still possible to assemble a competitive list without breaking your budget on plastic spaceships, and ultimately actual player skill still counts for quite a bit as opposed to "throw the best, most expensive units at things, done." That's why we've got multiple people in this thread wrecking shop with lists based around the T-65, a ship that the average X-Wing wiki contributor dismisses as trash garbage that's virtually unplayable.
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Oct 28, 2015 08:24
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Booyah- posted:It's unfortunate that the FFG model is complete power creep, It's.... not?  The list that is most popular in tournaments right now is a TIE Advanced (Wave 1), TIE Interceptor (Wave 2) and Lambda Shuttle (Wave 3). That list uses a grand total of two cards from the latest wave, one card from wave 6, and the rest are all from waves 1-3. FFG even buffs old ships that have fallen by the wayside, like the TIE Advanced. One of the selling points of X-Wang is that they've done a wonderful job of reigning in power creep. Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 11:07
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Booyah- posted:This is encouraging, I was disappointed with the meta several months ago. It's unfortunate that the FFG model is complete power creep, but that the rest of the meta has opened up is nice at least. Seems like a swarm of TIE Fighters is still one of the scariest things out there.
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Oct 28, 2015 11:18
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kingcom posted:Seems like a swarm of TIE Fighters is still one of the scariest things out there. It is, but a lot of people are scared to play 'em in tournaments. My 5-Z+Bosskinator squad really messes people up because they're so used to 2-3 ship builds. They are very strong against fat turrets. I think there's a pretty stark difference in the design of things game-wise from Wave 5 onward that has significantly improved the game- most of the worst stuff in the game is from Wave 1-3 when FFG really didn't value things correctly.
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Oct 28, 2015 11:31
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Geisladisk posted:It's.... not? You're forgetting the three cards that only come from a $100 Epic scale ship expansion. FFG wont "buffs old ships that have fallen by the wayside" for free. It still feels like power creep when, instead of new ships being more powerful than old ships, its the new cards that come with those new ships that allow old ships to be more powerful.
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Oct 28, 2015 12:09
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Tequila Ranger posted:You're forgetting the three cards that only come from a $100 Epic scale ship expansion. FFG wont "buffs old ships that have fallen by the wayside" for free. I'm not a big fan of packaging the TIE Advanced buff with the Raider, but no matter how expensive the paywall they lock the buff behind, bringing old ships up to par with new ships is not power creep. You'd have a point if the cards that came with the Raider made the TIE Advanced overpowered, it'd be power creep.
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Oct 28, 2015 12:13
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This is unavoidable if FFG is unwilling to redo point costs/stats/dials, which they wont do for various reasons. Unfortunately this isn't a videogame where you can go and fix stuff in a way that ensures that everyone has the fix. I'd rather them fix old ships with new cards rather than leave old ship to rot on the vine. And they will never do card only expacs because they make a substantial amount of money from tourney whales (like me).
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Oct 28, 2015 12:17
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So I finally got the x wing starter to go along with my armada fleet. I'd like to buy maybe 2 more small ships per side so that I can entice friends and such with slightly larger, crazier battles. Are there any "obviously buy this" and "this is definitely a trap choice" picks out there? I'm thinking for rebels just a y/a wing and another x wing, and cool (and different) ties in some form for imperials. It'd be cool to be able to do Stuff with the easily recognisable ships from the movies, rather than the EU.
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Oct 28, 2015 14:09
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KongGeorgeVII posted:This is a list I'm going to try tomorrow night now my YV-666 has arrived. I just wish Moralo Eval had an EPT so I could run him with daredevil. Chuck a HLC on him and it makes it a very hard to avoid 4 dice attack with a target lock and Greedo. The problem with Bossk and the mangler is that it only works in his primary arc. Seems cool, I dont have a mangler cannon yet (I'm letting my wallet rest a little while before I buy a couple IG-2000s) so I'm goin with Moralo Eval+Kath for my LGS' next X-wing day Moralo Eval + HLC + Bossk + Gunner (48) Kath Scarlet + Veteran Instincts + Ion Cannon + K4 + Glitterstim + Engine Upgrade (51) =99 I'm basically gonna try 2 different ideas here and see how they fly, Bossk crew + gunner synergy is pretty cool so I wanna see how that turns out, and I want to try to Ion and then overtake for the full monty, with engine upgrade so Kath can wiggle into arc better. If I had it, i might run Connor net instead of the ion cannon, Lemme know how Inertial Dampeners work out on Kath, I thought about it. Also, generally doesn't Predator not mesh with Target Lock (ie K4 spam)? I thought you could only reroll dice once during a combat? As I go through the squad builder I keep finding more and more expansions I need to get 1 card from  Predator, Tactician, Daredevil, Push the Limit, etc.
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Oct 28, 2015 14:22
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Yeah you really want to get a Push the Limit for that Kath.
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Oct 28, 2015 14:47
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Pyronic posted:Seems cool, I dont have a mangler cannon yet (I'm letting my wallet rest a little while before I buy a couple IG-2000s) so I'm goin with Moralo Eval+Kath for my LGS' next X-wing day I always seem to miss obvious stuff like the overlap between K4 and predator when list building. Might swap predator for outmanoeuvre, although swapping K4 for recon specialist would also be pretty good. e: Actually yeah, PTL seems pretty great in this case.
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Oct 28, 2015 15:19
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lenoon posted:So I finally got the x wing starter to go along with my armada fleet. I'd like to buy maybe 2 more small ships per side so that I can entice friends and such with slightly larger, crazier battles. Are there any "obviously buy this" and "this is definitely a trap choice" picks out there? I'm Timmy as gently caress, so all of this is coming from a "push ships more dice whee" perspective. Rebels - A-wings are a hell of a lot of fun to push around, but not hugely effective. That said, if you got Rebel Aces, you'd get a really good A-wing and B-wing combo, all in one box and for a little less than buying them separately in most places. B-wings are pretty solid ships, and they're different enough from the regular Rebel dials if you want to mix things up. Y-wing isn't a bad choice, but for my money, I'd buy a K-wing. The TLT upgrades are really useful later on, they make Miranda a really effective choice as a whole, and if you're in it to throw dice, you can load the thing down with ordinance and learn about bombs and missiles. Imperials - The Phantom is mechanically optimal, although not as crushingly good as it used to be. It's tricky to fly superbly, but you can do well enough with it as a new player and throw a lot of dice on offense and defense. Buying an Interceptor blister is a no-brainer. You want Soontir Fel. You'll want to proxy Push the Limit, which is a massively important Elite Pilot Talent, and probably Autothrusters. Alternately, buy the solo Interceptor and Imperial Aces for a whole bunch of interceptors, one of which has sweet red racing stripes. And the Punisher is also pretty fun for the same reasons as the K-wing, although it isn't as much of a mandatory purchase since its upgrade cards aren't as great as the K-wing's stuff.
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Oct 28, 2015 15:21
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Panzeh posted:I think Stealth Device, Hull Upgrade, or Targeting Computer will do more for Fel than the extra green banks. Really? I thought TIE Mk2 would help him since he's always picking up Stress via PTL. I do see the merit of TC though, seems like the best upgrade of the 3. Deviant fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 15:46
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I prefer Stealth Device myself, the problem with the inties is defence, not offence and it can potentially save more hit points than a hull upgrade.
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Oct 28, 2015 15:56
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KongGeorgeVII posted:I always seem to miss obvious stuff like the overlap between K4 and predator when list building. Might swap predator for outmanoeuvre, although swapping K4 for recon specialist would also be pretty good. Kath/PTL/K4/Engine Upgrade is insane and is only 48 points, leaving you a lot of points for all sorts of other things. I like 4x Binayre Pirate and I plan on outfitting them with XX-23 S-Thread Tracers when that's out.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:00
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If I kit out an interceptor it's getting autothrusters, PtL, Royal Guard title, and a stealth device. Makes them ridiculously survivable, at least until they take their first hit.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:00
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Mathematically a Stealth device is the equivalent of a hull upgrade after two enemy attacks, and is better after 3. Without counting focus.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:02
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Deviant posted:Really? I thought TIE Mk2 would help him since he's always picking up Stress via PTL. The only extra greens you get are 3 banks, though, you already have a dial full of green.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:03
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Ok, when you put it that way, Stealth does seem way better.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:05
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lenoon posted:So I finally got the x wing starter to go along with my armada fleet. I'd like to buy maybe 2 more small ships per side so that I can entice friends and such with slightly larger, crazier battles. Are there any "obviously buy this" and "this is definitely a trap choice" picks out there? grassy gnoll posted:I'm Timmy as gently caress, so all of this is coming from a "push ships more dice whee" perspective. I agree with all of the above. After buying the TFA core set, we got the plastic spaceship fever and placed an order for all of the following: Rebel Aces, Millenium Falcon, Original Core Set, Imperial Aces, TIE Advanced, and Slave 1. I will go online to a list builder and put together two opposite lists that I think are roughly equal. I'll explain why I chose what I chose, and the rough strategy ideas behind them and how they're intended to be flown. Then we flip a coin for the lists. Using the online builder means that as long as I have the ships and dials, I can build out whatever I want (even using cards gated behind expensive epic ships) The things that seem to always make it in the list are 2 or more cheap TIE buddies, the TIE advanced, and an interceptor. T70 X Wing, Millennium Falcon, and B Wing are also frequent fliers. Out of all the ships I bought, the A Wing from Rebel Aces and the Slave 1 are the least likely to make it to the table. I've also never run more than one interceptor at a time, so you could probably get away with just the Interceptor blister pack, especially if you're willing to proxy stuff by using online lists.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:09
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Deviant posted:Ok, when you put it that way, Stealth does seem way better. But only if you luck out and roll the evades and need them. If you're fighting two-red attackers, you're at the best odds of dodging past damage that would have hit you. If you're fighting three-red attacks (or the deeply upsetting four-red close range onslaught), then you've got bad odds unless you're banking evade tokens to keep the damage off. Stealth devices are almost my favorite thing to see on an enemy ship, because I roll a lot of three and four red attacks, and I pop those cards off easily.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:27
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That's why you use it on Soontir, since you can almost always count on getting a focus. It is still better to have the SD over a hull upgrade or shield upgrade, especially teamed with Autos. Of all the possible second modifications, SD is the best bang per buck, TC is good but you can waste the use of it if you find yoursefl unable to use an action to use it.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:42
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I think I played the best game of X-Wing I've ever experienced at my league this evening. I lost, but it was so close and so much fun. I was running Deathrain, Howlrunner and three Black Sq. Pilots with Crack Shot against the Palpmobile, Darth Vader and Carnor Jax. I pasted Carnor pretty early despite losing one Black Sq. to an asteroid by flying stupidly, and the rest of the game was a horrifying battle of attrition that killed Palpatine, Deathrain, Howlrunner and one Black Sq. pilot and left the remaining one on two hull against Vader with two hull. Vader eventually won after we fought around each other for a bit since I could pull off 1-turns and he couldn't. At the end, I barrel-rolled when I should have focused, he got me in arc with my unmodified green dice and blew the poor TIE away. I love this game so much.
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Oct 29, 2015 11:47
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That's my current list and it's so fun. Try a Connor net if you have trouble with arc dodgers.
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Oct 29, 2015 19:23
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ConfusedUs posted:That's my current list and it's so fun. Oh yeah, that's how I managed to burn down Carnor almost immediately on contact. Chucking a Connor Net out the front right into his path was hilarious. I know they do less damage that Proxy Mines, but the control is hideously powerful. Honestly, I found myself wishing I had more of them, or that I'd brought Ion Bombs instead of Seismics.
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Oct 30, 2015 00:11
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Wave 8 is at the printer now! Also, is this the dumbest list you ever darn seen? Ten Numb + Mangler (35)\ Keyan Farlander + PTL (32) Blue Ace +Autothrusters + r2d2(33)
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