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double nine posted:I don't see the endings as a positive choice but more of a "lesser of three evils" sitiuation - what the lesser one is depends on your point of view - enlightened despotism, anarchy or oligarchy. I think this is what the devs were probably going for. I admit that it has always struck me as a bit odd that JC Denton seems to be for a democratic government out of some sort of naive idealism (given the dystopian reality he lives in) yet none of the options at the end give that possibility. Funnily enough the Helios ending is probably the most 'democratic' of them all because he can instantly know what everyone wants and needs, in theory at least. I personally always pick the Helios ending because all other options have clearly failed in the Deus Ex universe but I can totally see people preferring the Illuminati over a literal machine God.
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Oct 30, 2015 18:16
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Scalding Coffee posted:Is that coming from someone in China, I mean, The People's Republic of China? He would get shot for saying bad stuff about the government. Did you forget the government got shut down because reality is the complete opposite of what the guy said? well first of all he's in hong kong and secondly people in mainland china shittalk the government all the time. you just don't blog or demonstrate
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Oct 30, 2015 18:25
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I thought the Helios endings were less a hive mind with a reigning AI God controlling everyone akin to the Borg from Star Trek and more of a way to monitor everyones needs on a ridiculously fast scale so Helios Denton knows exactly how to divert its resources to ensure equality for everyone? You still have the issue Alex brings up, what if people don't want someone intruding into their mind? Would they even people anymore if they knew someone knew every thought that came into their heads? JC's response was essentially "They'll like it. Trust me."
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Oct 30, 2015 18:26
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Momomo posted:You still have the issue Alex brings up, what if people don't want someone intruding into their mind? Would they even people anymore if they knew someone knew every thought that came into their heads? Considering how much property invasion JC comitted throughout most of the game, that fits perfectly.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:12
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closeted republican posted:Considering how much property invasion JC comitted throughout most of the game, that fits perfectly. How unprofessional!
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Oct 30, 2015 19:35
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Samuel Clemens posted:I think either Tracer Tong or Morgan Everett mentions near the end that Helios used its powers to lock the triads inside of their compunds and disable government buildings. Based on that, I'm assuming the Helios ending is basically Helios/JC Denton taking over all technology in the world and shutting down critical resources if people don't obey their orders. Helios was born from an AI to combat terrorist and criminal organizations and the Triads are very clearly a criminal organization with terrorist ties. Momomo posted:You still have the issue Alex brings up, what if people don't want someone intruding into their mind? Would they even people anymore if they knew someone knew every thought that came into their heads? Well yeah but that doesn't seem out of character for JC, as closeted republican points out.
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Oct 30, 2015 20:13
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Momomo posted:You still have the issue Alex brings up, what if people don't want someone intruding into their mind? Would they even people anymore if they knew someone knew every thought that came into their heads? JC's not wrong. Look at the rise of social media. We dump everything out onto Facebook and willingly give up personal information in the name of convenience. People might object to a radical change but if it were brought in gradually it would be imperceptible, and the only people that would care are Richard Stallman types. JC had the same objections Alex had back in Deus Ex 1 with his Morpheus conversation, but Morpheus said essentially the same thing. Humans desire judgment, and Helios would provide the ultimate version of that. Segmentation Fault fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Oct 30, 2015 |
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Oct 30, 2015 20:26
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I always thought of it as sort of a commentary on human nature. I'm personally of the opinion that, if ever there were a post-scarcity but strictly regulated society, people would hate it despite the lack of poverty and need because it's both human nature to act childishly selfish and want to feel superior (read: richer) than those around them, so true equality would piss off a lot of people even if they wanted for nothing. In other words, even if such existed, people wouldn't put up with a benevolent tyrant.
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Oct 30, 2015 20:36
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Segmentation Fault posted:JC's not wrong. Look at the rise of social media. We dump everything out onto Facebook and willingly give up personal information in the name of convenience. People might object to a radical change but if it were brought in gradually it would be imperceptible, and the only people that would care are Richard Stallman types. Gradually, perhaps, but the way JC implemented it was not really like that at all. I don't think people would be very accepting if they knew what his intentions were before it happened.
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Oct 30, 2015 21:07
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JustJeff88 posted:I always thought of it as sort of a commentary on human nature. I'm personally of the opinion that, if ever there were a post-scarcity but strictly regulated society, people would hate it despite the lack of poverty and need because it's both human nature to act childishly selfish and want to feel superior (read: richer) than those around them, so true equality would piss off a lot of people even if they wanted for nothing. In other words, even if such existed, people wouldn't put up with a benevolent tyrant.
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Oct 30, 2015 21:26
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I always thought it was weird that Icarus and Daedalus would 'merge' to become an entirely new AI entity. It's like, getting a game developed in the 90's can often be next-to-impossible on a modern system without some third-party software, but we're supposed to believe these two highly complex AI's just came together just like that? I always thought that the creation of Helios was orchestrated right from the very started, and the first two AI constructs were created especially for that merger to succeed.
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Oct 30, 2015 21:37
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I think if I'm going to mind meld with any omnipresent cyborg philosopher, it would want to be JC Denton
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Oct 30, 2015 21:59
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HoboWithAShotgun posted:I always thought it was weird that Icarus and Daedalus would 'merge' to become an entirely new AI entity. It's like, getting a game developed in the 90's can often be next-to-impossible on a modern system without some third-party software, but we're supposed to believe these two highly complex AI's just came together just like that? I always thought that the creation of Helios was orchestrated right from the very started, and the first two AI constructs were created especially for that merger to succeed. They were probably just inspired by Neuromancer; the titular AI and another called Wintermute merge into an entirely new entity.
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Oct 30, 2015 22:03
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:They were probably just inspired by Neuromancer; the titular AI and another called Wintermute merge into an entirely new entity. loving awesome book that you should all read, on an aside. It basically single handedly birthed modern Cyberpunk, particularly Shadowrun.
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Oct 30, 2015 22:07
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Fuzz posted:loving awesome book that you should all read, on an aside. It basically single handedly birthed modern Cyberpunk, particularly Shadowrun. On the subject of cyberpunk, if you wanna read two great books that predate the movement by many, many years but contain all the prototyptical elements, try The Shockwave Rider and The Stars My Destination. Stars in particular has all the genetic makeup of a good cyberpunk story. Megacorps, cybernetic implants....And it came out in 1957. The protagonist, Gully Foyle, is on the resident list in the 'Ton Hotel. 
Al Cu Ad Solte fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Oct 30, 2015 |
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Oct 30, 2015 22:23
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The Demolished Man, also by Alfred Bester, is very good as well. Leader of a megacorporation trying to commit a murder when there are telepathic detectives.
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Oct 31, 2015 13:57
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The Demolished Man, also by Alfred Bester, is very good as well. Leader of a megacorporation trying to commit a murder when there are telepathic detectives. Looks interesting. Thanks!
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Nov 1, 2015 13:52
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a7m2 posted:Looks interesting. Thanks! Yeah, Minority Report obviously cribs a lot from that one.
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Nov 1, 2015 17:40
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Fuzz posted:Yeah, Minority Report obviously cribs a lot from that one. Philip K Dick's, or the movie?
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Nov 1, 2015 17:58
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a7m2 posted:Philip K Dick's, or the movie? Both, I'd think, since the movie was based on the book, which was written after The Demolished Man. All of those books were born from a fear of McCarthyism and Cold War paranoia, as well as a reaction to Japanese internment camps.
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Nov 1, 2015 18:27
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Fuzz posted:Yeah, Minority Report obviously cribs a lot from that one. Basically everything with telepaths in cribs from The Demolished Man (hence why, eg, the main telepath guy in Babylon 5 is called Alfred Bester)
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Nov 1, 2015 18:46
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Bester also coined the term "Esper" in one of his short stories.
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Nov 1, 2015 19:21
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:Bester also coined the term "Esper" in one of his short stories. Can't be a coincidence that "Bester" and "Esper" are assonant.
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Nov 1, 2015 20:48
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Read Bester's "Stars my Destination" as well, because that has had a huge impact on Sci-Fi. As well as being an incredible book. I read Bester's best work (Stars/Demolished Man), Dune and the Foundation trilogy when I was a teenager, and its crazy how much those handful of books inform modern scifi. I mean, is not JC Denton the Kwisatz Haderach? I know they also crib from things (Foundation has a LOT of the history of the fall of the Roman/Byzantine empires in it for example), but every time I reread them I'm reminded how inventive they are. (Tension, apprehension, And dissension have begun.)
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Nov 2, 2015 03:08
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That's the book that was brought up that I said "also by Alfred Bester" to  [edit] vvv A slightly redundant recommendation for a great book, you're history's greatest monster MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 17:53
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MrL_JaKiri posted:That's the book that was brought up that I said "also by Alfred Bester" to Ah, sorry 
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Nov 2, 2015 19:58
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I've always loved the way everyone in Deus Ex, but especially Jaime Reyes, has to sit on chairs like they're little kids in booster seats.
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Nov 3, 2015 05:03
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Why is that chair so huge?
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Nov 3, 2015 06:59
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Former Human posted:Why is that chair so huge? This might sound a little funny, FH, but I'm not permitted to answer that question.
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Nov 3, 2015 07:24
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Revision seems to nerf ADS so it doesn't detonate grenade traps. So you can't do the "detonate the sniper tower in Area 51 with your mind-powers" trick, boooooo.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:08
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I don't know if this is something I never really paid attention to or if it's something Revision changed, but Jaime Reyes is really short. also whatever mod decided to add sunglasses to Louis Pan needs to be expunged from this earth. Again, not sure if that's Revision or one of the component mods.
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Nov 5, 2015 01:04
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Psion posted:I don't know if this is something I never really paid attention to or if it's something Revision changed, but Jaime Reyes is really short.
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Nov 5, 2015 01:41
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Deus Ex's Nethack sounds fun:quote:Finally Beat It Also the emails in the game paint a much darker note than the rest of the game. Hell, the Wall Cloud is full of virus for airborne dissemination over the US.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:24
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Isn't that spelled out by the Tong Illuminati rant and the Walton Simmons transmission to the chinese general on the wallcloud itself?
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Nov 5, 2015 11:33
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Party Plane Jones posted:Deus Ex's Nethack sounds fun: It's not just the emails, everything about the world in DX is dark but they try not to make the entire experience awful for you as a player. I mean the entire framing device is a nanotechnology plague breaking down the entire global society, killing untold thousands of people with riots and military occupation more or less worldwide as MJ12 builds a skull throne of constant, omnipotent, omnipresent surveillance and control. Whether it's an artifact of being made in 2000 or not, though, I think the game's better off for keeping most of that in your imagination by way of references, emails, datacubes, and so on though, rather than trying to shove it in your face nonstop.
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Nov 5, 2015 17:53
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Wow, the "optional" Walton Simons fight in the ocean lab is TERRIBLE in DX Revision. They gate the doorway he's behind so it's impossible to sneak past him, and then after the mandatory dialogue (at least on hard) he instantly one-/two-shots you with a plasma rifle, even if you have level 4 cloak and level 4 ADS active. I had to turn on my legs, save the game, then hop over him before the dialog kicked in, and then manage to run around a corner before the insta-plasma shot murdered me.
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Nov 6, 2015 01:59
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Linguica posted:Wow, the "optional" Walton Simons fight in the ocean lab is TERRIBLE in DX Revision. They gate the doorway he's behind so it's impossible to sneak past him, and then after the mandatory dialogue (at least on hard) he instantly one-/two-shots you with a plasma rifle, even if you have level 4 cloak and level 4 ADS active. I had to turn on my legs, save the game, then hop over him before the dialog kicked in, and then manage to run around a corner before the insta-plasma shot murdered me. If you open by throwing a gas grenade he runs rather than shoots.
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Nov 6, 2015 02:03
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:If you open by throwing a gas grenade he runs rather than shoots. Linguica fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Nov 6, 2015 |
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Nov 6, 2015 02:31
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I had a hell of a time with him as well. His ADS seems to work on HE20 rounds, which was my usual method of dealing with him.
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Nov 6, 2015 09:29
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I followed the OP's advice and I got the gep gun and it's pretty good but it's too loving [i[big[/i]. Also I feel a little bad about stealing from random people's bank accounts.
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Nov 20, 2015 00:12
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