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OwlFancier posted:I said this with indyref but does the government actually have to act based on the results of the referendum? Not a lawyer, but potentially not. Here is the text of the bill. There are too many Schedules at the back for me to want to read, but the bit at the front doesn't seem to have anything about the situation after the referendum, such as whether it's binding - it seems to primarily deal with the authorisation for a referendum and the logistics. My guess is that legally parliament can do whatever the hell it wants with the results of the referendum. The political consequences would be pretty seismic though. As far as I know, the party line is "we've pledged to hold an in-out referendum" and nothing beyond that. Edit: 31 October 1517, Martin Luther nails some paperwork to a door. Prince John fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Oct 31, 2015 |
# ? Oct 31, 2015 01:04 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 15:12 |
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Prince John posted:Not a lawyer, but potentially not. That was my thought, a referendum is asking "what do you fancy" not a legally binding thing. As you say, politically it could be difficult but if the EU situation is untenable, which it could well be given that isolationism doesn't generally work out well, it could be less painful to ignore the result if it turns out unfavorably.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 01:08 |
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This is pretty much always the case with referendums though, isn't it? Referendums say what the will of the people IS, but the government is never under a formal obligation to carry that out. It would just be suicidal not to. Excepting of course that they'd still be able to stay in office for two to three more years regardless.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 01:14 |
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I am mad you folks aren't ending every post with DCFADP.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 01:16 |
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you need to mix it up to keep things fresh George Osbourne Got hosed By Lords
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 01:18 |
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Will George Osbourne Got hosed By The House Of Lords become the David Cameron hosed A Dead Pig of our time?
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 02:43 |
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David Cameron hosed a dead pig right in its dead rotting mouth.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 03:35 |
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thespaceinvader posted:This is pretty much always the case with referendums though, isn't it? Referendums say what the will of the people IS, but the government is never under a formal obligation to carry that out. It would just be suicidal not to. The AV referendum was binding, most others have been consultative, I think. Theoretically there's nothing to prevent parliament passing a bill to nullify a result though.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 09:16 |
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Neurolimal posted:you need to mix it up to keep things fresh Maybe Gideon didn't gently caress a dead pig, that's why the toffs don't like him. DCFADP
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 09:44 |
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I can see a situation where if turnout is very low for the EU ref (which it almost definitely will be) the government could ignore it or call a new one where they get there result they want.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 09:47 |
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OvineYeast posted:The AV referendum was binding, most others have been consultative, I think. Theoretically there's nothing to prevent parliament passing a bill to nullify a result though. That's kind of my point. Parliament is generally only as bound by law as it decides it is, so if it wants to have a theoretically binding referendum then ignore it, it is allowed to. Ignoring the whole 'political suicide' aspect, mind.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 09:52 |
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Kezia is making her mark as Scottish Labour leader: quote:A future Labour government at Holyrood would restore tax credits for working families, its Scottish leader Kezia Dugdale will tell party members. It will be quite interesting to see if the SNP come up with a seriously redistributive alternative once the new powers are announced now that Labour are firmly nailing their colours to the anti-austerity mast.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 10:41 |
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OwlFancier posted:Apparently about 70% of our food, for a start. To be fair that would be some rad architecture.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 11:34 |
Prince John posted:Kezia is making her mark as Scottish Labour leader: Where exactly is she going to get the money to do this?
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 12:08 |
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If UKIP are really going for a military/patriotism angle against corbyn that's one step closer to outright fascism from them
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 12:10 |
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No, just one step closer to revealing what already exists.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 12:11 |
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WMain00 posted:Where exactly is she going to get the money to do this? It says in the article that she thinks she can do it without raising taxes, by not doing the tax cuts proposed by the other two parties (air passenger duty and higher rate tax changes for the SNP and Tories respectively). Presumably we'll have to wait until she actually delivers the speech to get more detail though.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 12:17 |
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WMain00 posted:Where exactly is she going to get the money to do this? quote:She will advocate changes of approach such as ditching SNP plans to cut air passenger duty and Tory proposals to raise higher rate tax thresholds. IIRC, on a UK-wide basis the cost of the Tories' proposed increase in the higher rate threshold is greater than the savings achieved by the tax credit cuts.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 12:20 |
On a UK wide - I fear though the money doesn't add up on a Scottish basis, but in fairness we will need to wait and see whats said first. I do worry though that saying you'll prop up working tax credit and revert any changes shows a certain bit of naivety and plays into the Tories argument of a Labour wanting to run up debt again.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 12:25 |
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I'm pretty sure that's right. The media are doing a fabulous job of ignoring the fact that far from tax credit cuts PAYING DOWN THE NATIONAL DEBT they're actually PAYING TO LINE THE POCKETS OF THE RICH by cutting their taxes.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 12:29 |
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If Parliament attempts political suicide, does that mean that they can be imprisoned without charge or trial until their mental state improves?
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 12:31 |
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WMain00 posted:On a UK wide - I fear though the money doesn't add up on a Scottish basis, but in fairness we will need to wait and see whats said first. Good. Tax credits exist for a reason, and the sooner the Tory 'if you don't cut what we're cutting you're bad' narrative is challenged the better. Can't win the argument on their terms
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 12:34 |
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WMain00 posted:I do worry though that saying you'll prop up working tax credit and revert any changes shows a certain bit of naivety and plays into the Tories argument of a Labour wanting to run up debt again. If she can do it within the Scottish budget she would show quite clearly that there is no need to do it. Because unlike the UK as a whole, the Scottish budget is actually fixed, or to a degree anyway. In some ways it's quite clever.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 12:42 |
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WMain00 posted:I do worry though that saying you'll prop up working tax credit and revert any changes shows a certain bit of naivety and plays into the Tories argument of a Labour wanting to run up debt again.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 13:11 |
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Really weird to see the cover of today's Mail is cheering the return of the final British Guantanamo Bay detainee. It's like they occasionally have these anti-right wing moments that seem to come out of nowhere- you know, like when they revealed that David Cameron hosed a dead pig.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 13:21 |
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WMain00 posted:Where exactly is she going to get the money to do this? Giving money to poor people has a fiscal multiplier of > 1, so it'll turn a profit by itself over a sufficiently long period of time.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 13:29 |
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Squalitude posted:Really weird to see the cover of today's Mail is cheering the return of the final British Guantanamo Bay detainee. It's like they occasionally have these anti-right wing moments that seem to come out of nowhere- you know, like when they revealed that David Cameron hosed a dead pig. The dead pig thing was one Tory loving over another Tory because he'd broken their corrupt, incestuous contract, no?
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 13:40 |
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a pipe smoking dog posted:I can see a situation where if turnout is very low for the EU ref (which it almost definitely will be) the government could ignore it or call a new one where they get there result they want. What is it they demand for strike action? 70% approval from 80% turnout?
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 13:51 |
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Oops, it happened again!
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 13:52 |
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I love that this is a recurring problem.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 13:54 |
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Squalitude posted:Really weird to see the cover of today's Mail is cheering the return of the final British Guantanamo Bay detainee. It's like they occasionally have these anti-right wing moments that seem to come out of nowhere- you know, like when they revealed that David Cameron hosed a dead pig. On the other hand http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3296382/Last-British-prisoner-Guantanamo-Bay-Shaker-Aamer-released-13-years.html
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 13:55 |
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baka kaba posted:Good. Tax credits exist for a reason, and the sooner the Tory 'if you don't cut what we're cutting you're bad' narrative is challenged the better. Can't win the argument on their terms
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 13:56 |
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feedmegin posted:On the other hand http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3296382/Last-British-prisoner-Guantanamo-Bay-Shaker-Aamer-released-13-years.html
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 14:00 |
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OzyMandrill posted:They exist to subsidise lower-than-living-wages, so businesses don't have to. I mean I don't object to skimming tax off the top of business and reinserting it at the bottom because you're achieving broadly the same thing as requiring higher wages and it strengthens the state in doing so.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 14:02 |
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GodDAMMIT this is why we took him OUT of the Hulture Secretary position.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 14:23 |
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OwlFancier posted:I love that this is a recurring problem.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 14:29 |
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Oberleutnant posted:Why did I look at the comments. Oh God
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 14:30 |
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Mark Steel's piece on tax credits in the Independent was pretty good.Mark Steel posted:George Osborne should be aware of his achievement, because he must be one of the first people to be warned he’s being too mean to the poor by a body made up of the aristocracy, people dressed in ermine and bishops. It was illustrated with a picture of the Fat Controller moments after opening the Ark of the Covenant for some reason, though. I've also seen some things pointing out that people like Karen Brady and Michelle Mone voted for them, which might damage their public image a bit.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 14:40 |
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OzyMandrill posted:They exist to subsidise lower-than-living-wages, so businesses don't have to. They exist so that people with low wages aren't thrown under a bus, yeah. Especially in times where the economy's in trouble and it needs to be stabilised. Removing them should be the end of the process of raising wages, not the start of it
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 15:10 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 15:12 |
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I completely trust the Tory government to get us half way to a low welfare, high wage economy.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 15:14 |