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P-Mack posted:Choked to death on a bullet during a drunken party trick gone wrong. Maybe the 30YW version of the old west "died with his boots on" is "died with his balls in his mouth"? 
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Nov 3, 2015 21:34
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I found this while reading up on Octaberskaya, and well, you'll see in a moment why I had to share it with you.  Disney: The Eastern Front
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Nov 3, 2015 21:54
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GOD loving DAMNIT
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Nov 3, 2015 21:55
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Ensign Expendable posted:You're too tall to be a tanker. A Soviet ergonomics guide I have pins the height of an average person at 170 cm. At the start of the 20th Century, the average adult male in the US was about 5'6" tall and weighed 150 pounds. People got bigger through the century thanks to better medicine and nutrition, but when most of those tanks were being designed, soldiers were still considerably smaller than what we are used to today. So the interiors of tanks in WWII were still plenty cramped, but not as bad as it seems.
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Nov 3, 2015 22:00
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Nenonen posted:Assumed family name "Oktyabrskaya", deary me. Just how fanatic party supporter must you be to rename yourself after a revolution? Nah, peasants went without surnames until the Soviet censuses. They just adopted something nice and patriotic.
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Nov 3, 2015 22:04
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hogmartin posted:Maybe the 30YW version of the old west "died with his boots on" is "died with his balls in his mouth"? New thread title.
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Nov 3, 2015 22:23
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hogmartin posted:Those are no joke what I'm looking for. chitoryu12 posted:Fury isn't the pinnacle of realism by any means, but it's probably the best World War II tank depiction in media right now that isn't just "Tank sits on camera and fires at buildings until hit by a Bazooka". For Cold War MBTs, watch The Beast of War. It takes place in the Soviet-Afghan War of the 1980s and centers around a lost T-55. Both movies have a ton of camera time inside the vehicle.
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Nov 3, 2015 22:24
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hogmartin posted:So I've heard of infantrymen complaining about, say a 2-week FTX. I don't know dick about this but I get the impression that they go out into an operating area, sleep in bivvy sacks, eat MREs, and get periodic objectives and periodic supply. What's that like for tankers? Do people sleep in the tank? Where? I'm swedish and this is how we do it; Tankers sleep in tents. Sleeping in the tank is against regulations, and you don't get many opportunities to question why. That said, infantry does the same normally, some units at at some points forego the tents for a reinforced cover to your sleeping bag (is that a 'bivy sack'?) We called those 'Ensamma vargen' (tr. Lonely Wolf) (not for oora, for conveying how cold those sacks are haha). E. There is absolutely no space for the entire crew to sleep in the tank. The driver, maybe? But every soldier in every time will always know that; when you're tired, you sleep where you can, when you can. ThisIsJohnWayne fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 22:38
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Arquinsiel posted:Episode 3 of Our World War was inside a tank too. A biiiiiit different though, what with the crazy WWI crew sizes etc. This is, of course, more than compensated for by having to share space with all kinds of exposed high-velocity flywheels, drive belts, etc. And no exhaust pipe. Worst of all, they didn't even have room for a proper BV. Ghastly.
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Nov 3, 2015 22:49
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Keldoclock posted:I found this while reading up on Octaberskaya, and well, you'll see in a moment why I had to share it with you. That uniform is closer to an Afrika Corps one than anything a Soviet tanker wore.
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Nov 3, 2015 22:57
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:I'm swedish and this is how we do it; Tankers sleep in tents. Sleeping in the tank is against regulations, and you don't get many opportunities to question why. That said, infantry does the same normally, some units at at some points forego the tents for a reinforced cover to your sleeping bag (is that a 'bivy sack'?) We called those 'Ensamma vargen' (tr. Lonely Wolf) (not for oora, for conveying how cold those sacks are haha). Thanks, this is good. It's easy to see how a crew works stationary when you look at the plan views, but how stuff works when tons of poo poo are moving around you, and how you live for weeks with the vehicle, are totally alien to me. I kind of guessed there wasn't room for everyone to sleep within the hull but what do I know? Also not sure why it's specifically against regulations. Some of my best sleep ever has been drop-dead tired on a toolbox with a Naugahyde pad over it in something like 90 decibel noise. I think a bivvy sack is like a sleeping bag with a little built-in shelter, but I don't remember if I heard of it from backpackers, from soldiers' issued kit, or if the soldiers bought extra kit to supplement what they were issued. I don't know a whole lot about infantry life; if I'd wanted to forego hot coffee and air conditioning, I wouldn't have gone submarines. Speaking of which, if anyone has any questions about those in general, I'd be glad to help. I did an abortion of an A/T thread about modern submarining like a decade ago, but I'll answer what I can if anyone has nagging mysteries about them like I about tanks.
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Nov 3, 2015 23:14
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hogmartin posted:A bit, but the part where they included human models was a little short and I'm more trying to understand how 3-4 guys actually live in these things for weeks and still operate them as weapons. Thanks though! A- its uncomfortable. B-gunner and driver or driver and dismount will sometimes rotate duties. C- you don't spend 24/7 inside the thing. the driver gets down and does maintenance in the morning and evening. the commander is off to meet with platoon leader/platoon sergeant. the gunner supervises/assists the driver. everyone eats and bullshits at night and most people sleep outside. If you watch Generation Kill, you can see the daily cycle. there is also series of videos from OIF 2.0 where a 'reporter' is embedded with a platoon from 2nd LAR but i cant remember who the guy was.
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Nov 3, 2015 23:15
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MassivelyBuckNegro posted:If you watch Generation Kill, you can see the daily cycle. there is also series of videos from OIF 2.0 where a 'reporter' is embedded with a platoon from 2nd LAR but i cant remember who the guy was. ... a reporter?
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Nov 3, 2015 23:25
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A friend of mine who was a driver on a Leopard 2 said that on exercises they often had to stay buttoned up for 24h or more (NBC attack simulation). The rest of his crew would bitch about cramps etc after just a few hours, while he could just put the back of his seat down and take a nap. Being a small little bastards (1.60) probably helped as well. He also told me that on a few of those occasions they would just run the ventilator on max and smoke joints and listen to NWA for a few hours to kill time. Hippie Army indeed 
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Nov 3, 2015 23:30
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Ensign Expendable posted:That uniform is closer to an Afrika Corps one than anything a Soviet tanker wore. The women driving Panthers in WW2 were the best-dressed of all tank corps 
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Nov 3, 2015 23:37
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hogmartin posted:Great video, thanks. The loader's safety switch (disabling the turret traverse) answers a lot of questions and raises some more since it's basically a trivial way of making the tank useless (though obviously not in normal use &c). I was kind of surprised that he was basically standing somewhat upright when he demoed the loader's position. I think I have a better idea of how the stations were manned, but I'm also impressed at how they could move without inadvertently flipping some minor switch (say, the loader's safety switch...) and not realizing it until something horrible happened - again, I say this as an ex-submariner. Some tanks have a turret floor raised over the actual floor of the tank, so the loader follows the turret rotation automatically. In others (primarily older ones), he has to follow the turret rotation by himself. As far as sleeping goes, this is a page from the "memory items" for a Swedish Centurion crew from the 70's:  Pictured is a tank in "combat quarters" - high readiness but still allowing the crew some rest. Note the guys sleeping in a pit under the tank. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 23:46
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Ensign Expendable posted:A "son/daughter of the regiment" was a somewhat common occurrence. You see a kid wandering around some forest or burned out village, pick 'em up and make their life a little less lovely. There was an effort to periodically scan front line units for these kids and evacuate them to the rear, but often they would run away and rejoin their unit. Happened in WW1 in Serbia, too, due to the nature of the war, and it genuinely being safer to hang out with the army than it was to stay behind in the occupied lands. Though it unfortunately reached borderline child soldier levels, like that time when a unit let a 7 year old kid who lost both parents and 7 siblings to the Austrians help shoot an artillery gun at the responsible force's position.
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Nov 3, 2015 23:55
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:I'm swedish and this is how we do it; Tankers sleep in tents. Sleeping in the tank is against regulations, and you don't get many opportunities to question why. Isn't that a good way to get a lot of your tanks incapacitated for lack of crew in the event of an artillery barrage? Infantry at least are going to be dug in to some extent, but just sleeping in a tent on open ground sounds like a bad idea in a real war. Or do you guys have to dig positions, in addition to the duties related to care and feeding of the tank.
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Nov 3, 2015 23:56
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Trin Tragula posted:This is, of course, more than compensated for by having to share space with all kinds of exposed high-velocity flywheels, drive belts, etc. And no exhaust pipe. Worst of all, they didn't even have room for a proper BV. Ghastly.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:00
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Phanatic posted:Isn't that a good way to get a lot of your tanks incapacitated for lack of crew in the event of an artillery barrage? Infantry at least are going to be dug in to some extent, but just sleeping in a tent on open ground sounds like a bad idea in a real war. Or do you guys have to dig positions, in addition to the duties related to care and feeding of the tank. If there is a barrage, the crew runs and hides under the tank.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:08
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hogmartin posted:Thanks, this is good. It's easy to see how a crew works stationary when you look at the plan views, but how stuff works when tons of poo poo are moving around you, and how you live for weeks with the vehicle, are totally alien to me. I kind of guessed there wasn't room for everyone to sleep within the hull but what do I know? Also not sure why it's specifically against regulations. Some of my best sleep ever has been drop-dead tired on a toolbox with a Naugahyde pad over it in something like 90 decibel noise. On which boat did you serve and how cramped was she? I've been on B-39, Vesikko and Lembit and they were cramped as hell. Also, feel free to make an effort post about submarines. Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 00:13
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Here's some footage of the inside of a Syrian Army T-72 in the civil war. You get to see the autoloader in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhmRqYUzfs0 And just because it's really cool, this is HD footage of those T-72s in battle. It includes GoPros mounted over the barrel so you get the best view possible of the tank gun in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bsDP5DznDQ
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Nov 4, 2015 00:14
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Hogge Wild posted:On which boat did you serve and how cramped was she? One of the last of the 688 class of US nuclear attack boats. Surprisingly not horribly cramped, but not very roomy either. Hogge Wild posted:Also, feel free to make an effort post about submarines. I'd love to, but I don't really know what people are wondering about them - now or in the past. If I start gibbering about the trash disposal unit, people might want to know about WWII Pacific fleet boat skippers. It's kind of a huge topic and breaking it down to a huge two-page post would still be like doing the same thing for "hey, write about swords". Mostly I figured that since I was curious about life in a tank I'd offer in kind for submarines.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:23
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Molentik posted:A friend of mine who was a driver on a Leopard 2 said that on exercises they often had to stay buttoned up for 24h or more (NBC attack simulation). The rest of his crew would bitch about cramps etc after just a few hours, while he could just put the back of his seat down and take a nap. Being a small little bastards (1.60) probably helped as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAXDWjXsvzw
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Nov 4, 2015 00:24
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hogmartin posted:I'd love to, but I don't really know what people are wondering about them - now or in the past. If I start gibbering about the trash disposal unit, people might want to know about WWII Pacific fleet boat skippers. It's kind of a huge topic and breaking it down to a huge two-page post would still be like doing the same thing for "hey, write about swords".
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Nov 4, 2015 00:32
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the JJ posted:... a reporter? https://www.google.com/search?q=reporter&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=define+reporter maybe filmmaker more accurately describes the guy. Pat Dollard 'young americans' which is a way shittier than i remembered 'documentary' about the meu he embedded on. most of the videos are gone because he never actually finished it.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:35
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Ensign Expendable posted:If there is a barrage, the crew runs and hides under the tank. "If there's a barrage, the infantry runs and jumps in a hole" doesn't sound good either. It's the initial rounds that kill the most people.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:42
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chitoryu12 posted:Here's some footage of the inside of a Syrian Army T-72 in the civil war. You get to see the autoloader in action. The auto loader is fed from some sort of conveyor type system right? What happens if there's a bunch of AP lined up and then suddenly you need HEAT? Is it time consuming to swap out for a different round?
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Nov 4, 2015 00:51
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Hogge Wild posted:On which boat did you serve and how cramped was she? I'll go ahead and take this one. Nobody actually lives on the submarine; up to about 2nd Class Petty Officer (NATO E-5 or Sergeant) you live in barracks in your home port. They're rather like a lovely studio apartment for two, without a kitchen, in a large building. There's plenty of space to keep a computer or other hobby stuff, and your car. Above that, you often live off-base - earlier if you're married, but depending on the local economy you might or might not save money based on the monthly allowance you get for living off-base. That doesn't describe the conditions on the boat though, just that 150 dudes don't have to keep all their worldly possessions on board. In port, we were always on a 3-section duty rotation, so each day after work, 1/3 of the guys didn't go back to their homes in Kailua or the barracks rooms, they stayed on board. In port, after the workday (and not in drydock), the conditions were pretty reasonable. You had electricity, air conditioning, water, and food, and you could stand upright in pretty much every compartment. The ship is three stories high, inside, and the passageways aren't very cramped then. There are quite a few spaces that are absolutely hellish to try to contort your way into, but they aren't places you have to work in all the time. Underway, we might have 20 to 30 of our complement of 150 stay ashore ('augmented') at any time for training, leave, or whatever, but on missions we might take on extra 'passengers' too. Going through the passageways was roughly like the aisle of a city bus; two can move past at a time, but you might step against the wall if someone senior is coming through. "Working Navy" also got preferential treatment moving around; two machinist seamen carrying gear might have a Lieutenant plaster himself to the wall to let them pass. It was crowded, but not cramped, I guess is the best way to describe it. There were lots of dudes, some of them foul-smelling, foul-mannered, or just foul, occupying the same space, but the space itself wasn't particularly close. There are some brief glimpses in videos like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4UzD6edY_8 I'll try to find better ones, but basically imagine taking a winnebago, replacing the sleeping for four with beds for twelve, then keeping everyone locked in. You can get around fine, day-to-day everything's right there and normal size, you just may have to slink behind someone who's working to get to your workstation. There are places like the sonar dome that can only be accessed through hilarious and claustrophobic means (and I'm sure the engineers have some as well), but you generally work in a rather crowded institutional-type workplace.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:55
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Slavvy posted:The auto loader is fed from some sort of conveyor type system right? What happens if there's a bunch of AP lined up and then suddenly you need HEAT? Is it time consuming to swap out for a different round? The autoloader is basically a carousel that only spins one way. The gunner selects the desired round and the carousel spins to bring it to the correct position, at which point it lifts up into place and the round that's lined up with the rear of the gun is rammed into position. Then it lowers a little, the propellant gets rammed in, and it lowers all the way down. Only a stubby section of casing isn't consumed in firing, which is ejected by the autoloader. The downside to this setup is that yes, you can easily end up having to rotate all the way around to the desired round before loading. This means that the actual loading time can vary depending on when you switch shell types. One of the several advantages of a human loader pulling from a rack is the ability to grab whatever's needed at the same speed each time. For the record, the other advantages are the numerous ones to having an extra set of hands (good training position for newbie tankers, extra guard on watch or mechanic, can take over if someone else gets blown in half, etc.)
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Nov 4, 2015 00:57
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On the subject of submarines, in a little less than 3 weeks I'll be back in NYC for the umpteenth time and the Intrepid museum also includes the USS Grayback nuclear missile submarine that served from 1957 to 1964. It's open for tours from one end to the other, and I'll take plenty of pictures and video so everyone can see what the quarters are like. I remember the galley and mess being not unlike a small lounge. Winnebago, like hogmartin said, but not uncomfortable. You can stand up straight almost everywhere and I'm 6'2 in shoes. The USS Intrepid itself is almost like a small town in terms of population. If the lights in a certain section aren't on, you'll see hallways just stretch off into black. They decorated one of the messes in a cowboy style in the 1970s, which is an incredibly odd thing to see when walking around an aircraft carrier. The galley looks like a large restaurant's kitchen, but even bigger. They actually converted the general mess into a museum cafe.
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Nov 4, 2015 01:05
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Arquinsiel posted:Start with your daily routine maybe? Questions will spawn naturally from that. I have a question: while on the sub, did you get enough sleep? I read an article from a long time ago that made it sound like your every waking moment is assigned to some duty or other.
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Nov 4, 2015 01:06
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chitoryu12 posted:The autoloader is basically a carousel that only spins one way. The gunner selects the desired round and the carousel spins to bring it to the correct position, at which point it lifts up into place and the round that's lined up with the rear of the gun is rammed into position. Then it lowers a little, the propellant gets rammed in, and it lowers all the way down. Only a stubby section of casing isn't consumed in firing, which is ejected by the autoloader. 
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Nov 4, 2015 01:07
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Phanatic posted:"If there's a barrage, the infantry runs and jumps in a hole" doesn't sound good either. It's the initial rounds that kill the most people.
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Nov 4, 2015 01:17
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hogmartin posted:I'll go ahead and take this one. Ha, yeah, I thought that nucular boats had more room than the diesel boats. How close Down Periscope is to a documentary, the consensus in GiP seems to be 'very'. And I'd also like to hear about a typical day when you were sailing.
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Nov 4, 2015 01:21
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The link you provided also brings up an issue with autoloaders: with the carousel design, the length of the complete shell is limited by the distance between the rear of the breech and the rammer. The brand new T-14 Armata the Russians displayed this year is the same way, but it has an unmanned turret with all three crew members in the hull. In practice the tank has a ton of obvious design flaws and is way taller than an unmanned turret needs to be, but it at least looks cool.
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Nov 4, 2015 01:25
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Slavvy posted:The auto loader is fed from some sort of conveyor type system right? What happens if there's a bunch of AP lined up and then suddenly you need HEAT? Is it time consuming to swap out for a different round? Autoloaders have different feed mechanisms depending on the tank model. The Russians like the circular magazine, although they can catastrophically explode if penetrated. It does save weight though. The AMX-13 had two clips on either side of the barrel that looked sort of like revolver cylinders. You had to load them externally, and if you wanted to reload, or ran out of the appropriate shell, you'd need to quickly retreat somewhere safe. It was a cheap light tank intended for export to warlords though, so it was still successful.
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Nov 4, 2015 01:34
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Arquinsiel posted:Start with your daily routine maybe? Questions will spawn naturally from that. Will do. You are woken roughly 30 minutes before your watch starts. When does your watch start? Who the gently caress knows? There are three watch sections underway, so you live 18-hour days: oncoming, offgoing, and on-watch. The cooks keep a 24-hour day though, breakfast at 0600, lunch at 1200, dinner at 1800, and midrats (midnight rations - leftovers from the day and easy-to-cook poo poo) at 0000. The mess decks are generally open all hours though, so within reason nobody's going to give you poo poo if you get some rice or popcorn or soup or coffee and just sit and read or whatever (unless you're supposed to be doing something else). So the point is, what time of day you go on watch is both a mystery and irrelevant. Every few cycles you will wake, eat burnt canned ravioli and stale chicken parmesan for breakfast, go to work for six hours, and then have scrambled eggs with bacon and grits for lunch. 30 minutes before your watch, the Messenger of the Watch will wander through berthing with a red flashlight and a clipboard, slide your curtain open to make sure it's you, and say "hogmartin! first wake-up". He will do this to roughly forty other people as well. Then he'll start around again and if you aren't up, report your second and third wake-ups. You know your sleep, hygiene, and hunger levels like they're right there on your character's HUD, so you might snap up and grab a shower if you're feeling swampy or stay until third wake-up if you want to snag that last few minutes of Forbidden Sleep. Then you rouse yourself, put on your Navy coveralls and God willing fresh socks with extra foot powder, tie your Chuck Taylors, and stand in line for whatever meal it might be. It's disheartening at first because the line is like 20 people long and stretches all the way to the yeomans' shack, and the Chiefs just waddle past you, but it actually moves quite expeditiously and you make your way to the mess deck within a few minutes. Maybe you grab some salad and steak with noodles because you've been in port within the past week and the lettuce hasn't gone bad yet, maybe you place an order for two eggs with ham scrambled hard with the duty cook because it's breakfast and wait like a sniper with the Tabasco on the table, maybe you grit your teeth at the GODDAMN BURNED CANNED RAVIOLI and just take whatever soup is in the pot because it's midrats*. You eat, bring your dishes to the galley, and go on watch. Watch is a whole subject in itself and there are crewmen who sit at consoles (like I did in sonar), some who make rounds of the boat taking log readings of equipment, some who really don't have much to do and are therefore compelled to do numbing maintenance tasks. If you want to know what people do on watch, I can do that one later, it really depends on your job and your seniority. After watch, your relief relieves you and you go back down to take your place again in the chow line. ~ the circle of life ~ repeats again, but after you're done, your offgoing section has an hour of cleanup. This is when you get to explore the nasty, hard-to-get-to parts that I mentioned, contorting yourself with kimwipes and Simple Green to clean 2190 TEP oil from an obscure and dark place that you could have sworn didn't even have a loving hydraulic valve. After that, your offgoing section can read, watch movies, shower, study, do laundry, work on qualifications for your next level of watchstanding, or whatever. Then you go to sleep and the whole thing starts again. Note that this does not include all-hands activities like missions, field days, inspections, ORSE, PCO OPS, or any of the other bullshit that is so integral to the life. * My absolute favorite dish was something called Club Spinach. I've never seen it before or since, and based on the ingredients and preparation, I think it's some kind of 1930s greasy spoon diner dish that somehow made its way into the Supply Department repertoire. Basically cracker crumb crust and chopped bacon on top of buttery canned spinach. loving diamonds. http://www.quartermaster.army.mil/jccoe/publications/recipes/section_q/Q06000.pdf
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Nov 4, 2015 01:45
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Phanatic posted:"If there's a barrage, the infantry runs and jumps in a hole" doesn't sound good either. It's the initial rounds that kill the most people. Since there seems to bee an interest  : sleepy-times when your in a (professional) organization that uses tanks can come in a couple of variations, depending on how far it is (or is supposed to be) to the evil alcoholics with the terrible fashion sense (...not the  They're not evil.) Stridställning/defensive postition... wouldn't say that you spend days in those. Tanks are meant to be active, and if you're standing somewhere but no ones shooting at you, you're going to be sent somewhere where they do. In other words I have very limited experience about sleeping while standing in direct defense position (you don't sleep there). But if you did it would work as the Fluff depicted. Now, the 'normal' case is förläggning/field camp(?). That is supposed to be out of the immediate danger zone and you have other units there with you, so you share protection duties of the camp with them.So in the end it all goes more-or-less like: tank is active = driving somewhere dangerous, overrunning something that is dangerous, standing still... dangerously? ie. balls-to-the-wall no sleep. Tank is in-active (preparing to become dangerous) = driving somewhere safe that has been prepared by others, recuperating, resting and so on. You are not paying that much attention because others are now (supposed) to do that for you. Remember that tanks are more expensive than infantry and is treated as such, and (cheaper) units will 'gladly help' with digging holes and raising tents and so on when the tankers are out doing stuff that actually has effect on the enemy (looking at you mech inf  ). And if something happens, they run to their holes and we run to the tank. Then we kill someone. Then we may move the loving camp oooh got flashbacks now gently caress the cold and gently caress exercises and gently caress having to do things suddenlyIt very much is a on/off sort of life. Fake E: About the tents: sweden gets cold as you know, and tents is the way you keep warm in the winter, and it is nicer and cheaper than running a tank engine. So when you have tents for use in the winter, you might as well use them in the summer too. Real E: Everything is always camouflaged, always always always. Do it right and you don't worry about artillery of airstrikes ThisIsJohnWayne fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 01:46
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Nebakenezzer posted:I have a question: while on the sub, did you get enough sleep? I read an article from a long time ago that made it sound like your every waking moment is assigned to some duty or other. I honestly think I got more sleep than an equivalent, say, infantryman. There is a lot of poo poo to do and often you will be sleep deprived, but I think there's an institutional sense of what pilots call 'crew rest' since you're operating all this fancy poo poo. You will be roundly hosed, often (and often arbitrarily), but on the whole there's some level of respect for rest. Drydock, of course, is a whole different story  e: OK drydock and ORSE and PCO OPS and loving hell... yeah you can get sleep deprived. Ordinary ops though, no worries unless you're delinquent in qualifications ('dink'). Hogge Wild posted:How close Down Periscope is to a documentary, the consensus in GiP seems to be 'very'. Down Periscope and Das Boot are really all you need to watch to understand what it's like. Red October is fun to watch, Crimson Tide and Last Resort are unmitigated poo poo, but Das Boot and Down Periscope really have it covered.
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Nov 4, 2015 01:53
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