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SuicideSnowman posted:I don't get why they're making huge balance changes to existing things because they added some new items and a character. Why do they need to adjust the frequency of devil rooms all of a sudden? Why does Azazel need to be nerfed at all? It's just stupid to make so many weird balance changes in a single player game for no reason other than "it's too easy". The feeling I get is that there are two separate thoughts on BoI. One views it as a sort of light roguelike with a variety of items where difficulty is a plus but not the only part and the act of collecting and finding items is as much a draw as defeating enemies. The other views it as a sort of bullet hell shooting with some randomization elements where it should be a real effort to finish things and random power spikes are fun but not optimal The major issue is, as far as I see, that Edmund mostly feels the latter (which is cool!) but he has an idea of how to do it which largely involves boring bullet hell elements (high HP pools, low attack power) rather than more exciting ones (interesting bullet configurations or more complex mechanics.) He's certainly willing to work with high-power synergies as an element of fun but he clearly wants BoI to be a really punishing hard game and someone like The Lost is supposed to be really exciting and tense rather than frustrating. It's a genuine flaw in his approach I think. The way BoI is designed is that it has an inverse difficulty curve because the more items you get the stronger you are and unless you're extremely unlucky you're going to start outscaling the game. So the only real ways to enforce difficulty without completely revamping the game are though decreasing starting strength (thus making it harder to hit power spikes) or by removing ways to power spike. (The weird health mechanics going on with UG/Hush or Lost losing access to a huge chunk of the game's items.) It's a legitimate challenge to make it a harder game in the endgame without also making it tedious or unenjoyable. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 17:35
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I haven't actually killed either Satan or Isaac with Azazel yet, he's pretty much my worst character. So yeah, thanks Obama. (I suck at the game in general.)
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Nov 4, 2015 17:37
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I'm glad I knocked out beating greed mode with Azazel before bed last night. Speaking of, did this patch remove the IV Bag and/or the piggy bank from greed mode?
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Nov 4, 2015 17:40
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PantsBandit posted:I'm glad I knocked out beating greed mode with Azazel before bed last night. It removed the IV, don't know about the bank. I think I need to treat this like I treated WotL and wait a few weeks before diving back in. It's a good excuse to beat my head in against Nuclear Throne again.
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Nov 4, 2015 17:42
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I'm curious how great a role streamers play into deciding 'balance' changes for this game. Not directly, but the devs allowing guys like Cobalt who play...a decent amount... of Isaac to color their opinions on the difficulty level. I have less than 50 hours in the game and nowhere near all the unlocks, I can't really ever see myself getting them legit. I got my $16.66 out of the whole thing and I'll probably just download a completed save file to play with the full item roster but drat, if you're a true new player you might as well not even bother.
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Nov 4, 2015 17:44
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You know guys, looking back in retrospect you have to be dumb not to now see that "Look to la Luna!" was a goofy way of saying "it's gonna be handled tonight"
Augus fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 17:47
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Ok so what's with moms box spitting out the numbers 404 on the ground? I got it in another run and so far it's just dumped out a bunch of trinkets.
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Nov 4, 2015 17:50
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Prop Wash posted:Ok so what's with moms box spitting out the numbers 404 on the ground? I got it in another run and so far it's just dumped out a bunch of trinkets. The 404 itself is a trinket. Did you have the tick or were you on a challenge that gave you a trinket to start?
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Nov 4, 2015 17:53
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Oxyclean posted:The 404 itself is a trinket. Did you have the tick or were you on a challenge that gave you a trinket to start? That's weird, I could have sworn that it wasn't behaving like a trinket (and I didn't have the tick) but I guess that could have been it? Edit: curse of the tower may not be a great item, but it's a funny item
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Nov 4, 2015 17:57
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Really?
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Nov 4, 2015 17:58
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Augus posted:You know guys, looking back in retrospect you have to be dumb not to now see that "Look to la Luna!" was a goofy way of saying "it's gonna be handled tonight" Ineptus Mechanicus posted:if you're a true new player you might as well not even bother. koren posted:Really?
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Nov 4, 2015 18:01
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Yeah like, a lot of people were acting stupid over it, but you can't sit here and make weird cryptic tweets when your game is literally broken and doesn't have a good chunk of the stuff in it. I don't think people needed to riot, but Edmund didn't handle it well either. Basically, everyone is babies.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:01
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Killed the haunt's first ghost now it's treating the room like i just killed the boss, but I still have to burn through the other minions and the haunt himself first good poo poo Edit: Killed the second ghost, it played the guitar riff for when you kill a boss...again.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:02
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I forgot to mention this last night but the sticky time bomb tears + soy milk is actually a pretty cool combo, unfortunately I got it on the Speed challenge so I couldn't take it to Hush or anything.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:03
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The baby tweet was pretty funny tho
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Nov 4, 2015 18:03
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Is there any way to tell if the Haunts going to shoot a straight brimstone or a V shaped rubber brimstone?
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Nov 4, 2015 18:04
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Is there any way to tell if the Haunts going to shoot a straight brimstone or a V shaped rubber brimstone? Its the slightly red/pink coloured variant that does the V shaped one. Despite knowing that I still manage to get hit by it each time. Anyone else run into The Turdlings? They seem to be an exceptionally rare variant of gurdlings and they don't seem to turn up outside of boss rooms like the gurdlings can.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:12
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I did my first Afterbirth run. From what I remember they bounced around like they were on crack, spawned a bunch of flies at the end of every charge, and died instantly when one of my black hearts popped. The whole thing was surreal enough I wasn't sure they were working properly.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:17
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ImpAtom posted:The feeling I get is that there are two separate thoughts on BoI. The Mega Satan fight is also good and Lil' Horn stands out as a lot more interesting than most of the other early bosses. I feel like if anything they should go back and rework some of the more one-note bosses that are holdovers from vanilla. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 18:20
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Oxyclean posted:Its the slightly red/pink coloured variant that does the V shaped one. Despite knowing that I still manage to get hit by it each time. I've fought them outside of boss rooms before I think
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Nov 4, 2015 18:22
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I love that Ed hosed up the release, and while it was being fixed, fed info to the people looking for secrets like it was one. That is awesome. I hope these "secret character" sprites that keep showing up are just red herring characters he doesn't really intend to do anything with and he keeps rotating out portraits as long as people are looking for secrets. Can't wait until BOI: Stillbirth in a year for him to finally fix Azazel.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:29
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Adding some damage resistance to endbosses is a reasonable solution too, I feel. It was hard to have an actual fight with some of the old endbosses (most notably ??? due to how much poo poo you get from the Chest) because you'd usually end up powerful enough to blow them away instantly without even trying.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:32
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think both Hush and Ultra Greed are fun bosses. They take a while to beat but they don't bore me because they both have a good variety of attacks and often force you to make strategic decisions as well (eg whether to go after Ultra Greed's coins). I like the Hush fight but I'm pretty bored of it now I've nearly done it on every character. I don't think I'll bother doing it again once I've got all the unlocks. I think ultra greed is a lot more fun because it's chaotic and it always feels like things happen slightly too fast to stay on top of: like his power ups will fire off just before you can kill them all or he will be onto a new phase before you've dealt with all the door spawn adds. Looks like the patch didn't fix this bug (also the smallest non-double trouble floor ever): 
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Nov 4, 2015 18:33
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Mom's Knife + Monstro's Lung + Guillotine =  ..??? the knives just shoot out of isaac
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Nov 4, 2015 18:34
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think both Hush and Ultra Greed are fun bosses. They take a while to beat but they don't bore me because they both have a good variety of attacks and often force you to make strategic decisions as well (eg whether to go after Ultra Greed's coins). I like Hush but actually find Ultra Greed kind of boring. Maybe it's because Greed Mode was so broken before but I don't think his attack patterns are very hard to avoid. He's a cool gimmick but not cool enough for his health level.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:37
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Adding some damage resistance to endbosses is a reasonable solution too, I feel. It was hard to have an actual fight with some of the old endbosses (most notably ??? due to how much poo poo you get from the Chest) because you'd usually end up powerful enough to blow them away instantly without even trying. The one issue with that is you'll probably be fighting Hush and Ultra Greed a bunch of times and it gets a bit boring when both fights are guaranteed to be on the long side
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Nov 4, 2015 18:38
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I'm a huge fan of how he trolled his fan base. I love BoI, but gently caress... the fan base is probably one of the worst to have to please. This game is complicated as gently caress, and developing it can't be anything short of a nightmare, especially now. Of course bugs are going to happen, it's like trying to add pieces to a Jenga tower from the bottom up. One gently caress up, like let's say the IV bag in Greed mode, some OpenGL bug, etc. will make people outright hate you.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:49
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Holy poo poo, Bumbo is a good pickup. I don't know if I got him to max size or not but the little bugger was just trundling around, spitting troll bombs at enemies and running into them for contact damage. The best thing is that, unlike say Sampson's rage or the Hairball's size, Bumbo keeps all of his size through floor transitions. If you get him early and get lucky with the coin drops he can become a proper monster. Toxic Shock is also pretty solid. Carried me all the way to the foot despite some of my worst playing (ugh, why did I pick up Cursed Eye? It's a great item until you start taking all the damage). Not only does it do a full room poison effect but it leaves a puddle of acid whenever you kill something. Utterly wrecks poo-based enemies as my fight against Brownie showed where I started an acid chain reaction with his summons to cover the floor beneath him in burning green goo and took off about half of his health.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:50
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DrGreatJob posted:One gently caress up, like let's say the IV bag in Greed mode, some OpenGL bug, etc. will make people outright hate you. People liked breaking greed mode with the IV bag, not the other way around.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:55
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Got my second Greed mode win with an unexpected synergy: the new item that makes your tears into sticky bombs sometimes, and loving Soy Milk. Everything gets constantly covered in explosives
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Nov 4, 2015 18:56
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Is there supposed to be an achievement for getting Super Bum? I somehow just got it to trigger after taking a 1 dice room - maybe that's why it wouldn't count? Also if you get the Restock and IV Bag you can still break the game plenty it turns out! E: I also managed to crash the game for the first time in quite a while. Bummer since I think I might of got a free Mega Satan kill.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:56
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Well this Azazel nerf sure makes it a lot more annoying to get to Satan for the Lost unlock. EDIT: He's a lot weaker at the start now for sure but he still seems fine to me. He scales better than the other characters with damage upgrades and starts with flying. RatHat fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 18:58
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BillmasterCozb posted:Mom's Knife + Monstro's Lung + Guillotine = Monstro's Lung + Knife is basically loving useless anyway since the other knives go random places instead of where you want. DrGreatJob posted:I'm a huge fan of how he trolled his fan base. I love BoI, but gently caress... the fan base is probably one of the worst to have to please. This game is complicated as gently caress, and developing it can't be anything short of a nightmare, especially now. Of course bugs are going to happen, it's like trying to add pieces to a Jenga tower from the bottom up. One gently caress up, like let's say the IV bag in Greed mode, some OpenGL bug, etc. will make people outright hate you. I thought it was funny that greed mode was broken and didn't care that much if the content was ARG'd but I do care now that he says it's a bug even though that doesn't make any sense at all. Like I said earlier, the items that weren't available aren't even related to each other, none of them share any relation so why would only they be gone? They either weren't finished yet and they had to bust it out (which I think this is the case, since the sprite work wasn't even in the game yet), or he originally was trying to do an ARG and realized people want something they payed for. I don't think that people are being unreasonable by being upset they thought they weren't getting what they paid for.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:00
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So the new items aren't up on RPG yet. Are they just showing up for people who have played today or do they need to be unlocked first?
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Nov 4, 2015 19:05
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Butyraceous posted:Monstro's Lung + Knife is basically loving useless anyway since the other knives go random places instead of where you want. I'm pretty sure I ended up with Monstro's Lung + Knife + Tiny Planet in a Missing No. run, which actually rocked. The knives started off in random directions but immediately turned into a spiral of pain, with everything nearby taking multiple knife hits. Of course, it was Missing No. and I was abusing an IV Bag in Greed Mode so I could be wrong on the exact combo that caused that.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:10
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I'm doing the Speed! challenge at the moment and was rolling with Technology. Picked up Monstro's Lung and the synergy is great fun and can potentially carry me through this thing, if not for the fact that I've started taking half a heart of damage from absolutely nothing all of a sudden, every few seconds. It only started once I picked up the lung. I also have the Habit and Guppy's Head so I'm getting a steady supply of flies but this is draining my health so quickly that I don't think I'll be able to survive much longer. Is this a known synergy thing or a bug? It kind of sucks.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:11
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Are you sure you haven't run out of time? The challenge doesn't end when that happens, it just starts draining your health so you can technically still complete it past the time limit.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:12
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SuicideSnowman posted:Are you sure you haven't run out of time? The challenge doesn't end when that happens, it just starts draining your health so you can technically still complete it past the time limit. Oh, that's it. I didn't even know there was a time limit. Oh well.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:13
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DrGreatJob posted:I'm a huge fan of how he trolled his fan base. I love BoI, but gently caress... the fan base is probably one of the worst to have to please. This game is complicated as gently caress, and developing it can't be anything short of a nightmare, especially now. Of course bugs are going to happen, it's like trying to add pieces to a Jenga tower from the bottom up. One gently caress up, like let's say the IV bag in Greed mode, some OpenGL bug, etc. will make people outright hate you. Most of this stuff is stuff that could have easily been fixed by minimal playtesting(stuff like the tiny room devil room doors) and Azazel's nerf "not coming out right" among other things. They're putting the absolute minimal effort into making sure everything works right and throwing hissy fits and being passive aggressive at the fanbase for literally no reason. People complaining is indicative there's high interest in a game it's not an excuse to openly hate your fanbase. People are annoyed at the obvious lack of effort and smarmy responses moreso than something maybe like an item being a little too powerful or a way to break the game that you kind of have to dig a little bit for. It isn't really like that.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:14
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Glare Seethe posted:I'm doing the Speed! challenge at the moment and was rolling with Technology. Picked up Monstro's Lung and the synergy is great fun and can potentially carry me through this thing, if not for the fact that I've started taking half a heart of damage from absolutely nothing all of a sudden, every few seconds. It only started once I picked up the lung. I also have the Habit and Guppy's Head so I'm getting a steady supply of flies but this is draining my health so quickly that I don't think I'll be able to survive much longer. Is this a known synergy thing or a bug? It kind of sucks. The challenge gives you 16 minutes to kill mom's heart, if you don't finish in that time you start taking damage. Also, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck Brains
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