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Bobby is catholic which probably complicates the whole thing. I hate the bi-erasure but whatever, sexuality's a social construct and in the 2000s comics can't handle anything of societal importance.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:55
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Lemire's last team book sucked. Everybody was wooden and the same.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:55
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I'm not sure where the bi erasure is coming from, Jean didn't say bi people don't exist, just that Bobby wasn't bi. Unless there was something else?
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Nov 4, 2015 22:57
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He can just date himself. I don't think there's anything in the bible about timetravel dating.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:59
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Yea that was perfectly fine having Adult Bobby admit it, and his reasoning made perfect sense. But yea, what the hell was the ending of that? Scott saying this is a mutant revolution then Magneto coming down and going "Charles would have loved it" and then Eva is talking to Beast. I did enjoy Illyana and Peter reconciling though, with her admitting she's the fuckup. Rachael and Miles had Hopeless on, and he sounds like he's got a grasp of who the characters is, I guess he's just a bad writer. Though I admit I liked Inferno where most people here didn't. EDIT: After reading the first few Extraordinary pages, I guess whatever Scott was talking about lead to something bad. Scott Summers you're the worst. And I really liked Extraordinary, looks like a good setup for the serious X-men story. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 23:05
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BrianWilly posted:I just read it and...well...it was kinda anticlimactic, wasn't it? And not just the gaiety; the whole issue was anticlimactic. As much as people complain about this sort of thing, I can't really think of a whole lot of long standing characters who have, being the same character we always knew instead of some sort of alternate or new version, come out of the closet. A lot of diversity these days seems to be in the vein of new, young, invariable teenage it seems, characters. It's kind of nice to have somebody actually come out from being closeted, actually echoing the same mindset that often goes with that process. I mean, if you're writing an actual Iceman character piece then sure-- it would be nice to go deeper into the entire thing, but you're not: he's one character in an ensemble book. Still, I read Iceman's bit about the process of just compartmentalizing everything and it was instantly relatable. zoux posted:I'm not sure where the bi erasure is coming from, Jean didn't say bi people don't exist, just that Bobby wasn't bi. Like everything else where Jean Gray opens her mouth, the process of her affirming Bobby's homosexuality was really hamfisted. Like, it would have been actually better if they'd used the bisexual cloak of invisibility on that one and just not said anything. Cabbit fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 23:10
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But, hey, I can live with it.
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Rick posted:Bobby is catholic which probably complicates the whole thing.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:34
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Pindakaas posted:He can just date himself. I don't think there's anything in the bible about timetravel dating. Bible's got a pretty shaky claim on masturbation actually being a sin, so really, it all checks out.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:42
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My issue with Bobby is that he's had several relationships that ere all written with the view that Bobby was straight the whole time. This rather blatant retcon makes all of those relationships in comics more or less a lie. Which I'm sure Bendis isn't broken up about in the case of Bobby/Kitty, but a lot of those were quite significant to Bobby's character. Hell, I think there was a issue of Astonishing where Bobby literally created subconscious iceclones of himself to protect all of his former love interests. Personally I think it would have been better to have him be bisexual, especially since there have been a whole bunch of openly Lesbian & Gay mutants, so his rationalisation makes no goddam sense. But I'm not LGBT, so I'm not the most qualified to argue about this. I'd probably have a lot less of an issue if the whole reveal hadn't been so cackhanded. But then that's kind of how I see Bendis' whole run on X-Men. I'm especially broken up over X-23 getting dragged back into the X-Men books, since her whole driving force of her last solo run by Liu was her actually setting out to find her own identity independent of the X-Men. Only to get dragged back in and shackled to the All-New X-Men, which is the stupidest idea in recent X-Men history (because they're probably never going back in time - which is insane because Bendis clearly established himself that Teenclops nearly dying almost had Cyclops prime fading out BTTF-style in BFTA). Not to mention having her hooked up with Angel literally as an afterthought after Rucka took Teenclops off to space (was there ANY setup with her & Warren before it happened?). Plus Soule (who seems to otherwise be a great writer) had her stand by while her friend who - once talked her out of suicide - was being attacked and apparently killed in Wolverines. I think I'd have actually preferred her going into Avengers Undercover. Still, what may be the worst run in X-Men comics since Austen is finally over. Except it's going to be leaving its awful mark on the X-books for years to come.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:44
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I can't believe he had Jean read someone's mind and effectively make a choice for them again and then had both characters she'd done that to say how rad she is for doing it gently caress that.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:57
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That's not what happened.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:01
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Wait Jean outed him again? That is lazy Bendis really lazy
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Nov 5, 2015 00:03
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She didn't out him. Both young Bobby and young Jean went to talk to old Bobby, but that's it. As of now old Bobby is still in the closet to everyone else. Although, at one point young Bobby straight up asks Jean what old Bobby is thinking, right there in front of him, and she just says it out loud like it's no big deal.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:06
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Blockhouse posted:I can't believe he had Jean read someone's mind and effectively make a choice for them again and then had both characters she'd done that to say how rad she is for doing it  Frankly the All-New X-Men concept is terrible, since by definition they've entirely hosed up the spacetime continuum already. It feels more like fanfiction. It might have worked as a limited arc before they go back in time, but making it an ongoing series where they've spent at least 16 months in the future/present should have caused a ripple effect. We all know they're never going back.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:09
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Lmao though because they're going to have to go back to the past and none of their development would matter? vOv
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Nov 5, 2015 00:20
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I say kill all the older versions of the X-Men and leave the younger ones. I'm much more interested in them.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:29
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zoux posted:I don't want to straightsplain gay issues since there are probably gay posters who have actual life experience with it, but the question of if there's a duty to come out can be highly contentious. Yeah but Northstar is an angry rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:30
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I feel like if Jean wasn't involved with this I'd have way less of a problem It'd still be an incredibly messy retcon that could have been way less messy if he had been bi instead, but the Jean stuff actively moves it into skeezy territory, especially since Bendis doesn't seem to realize what the problem is.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:49
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X-O posted:I say kill all the older versions of the X-Men and leave the younger ones. I'm much more interested in them. "Oh no, some kind of temporal wave.... *gasp* T-tearing young Havok apart right in front of us!"
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Nov 5, 2015 00:53
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BrianWilly posted:She didn't out him. Both young Bobby and young Jean went to talk to old Bobby, but that's it. As of now old Bobby is still in the closet to everyone else. He's allowed to do that, it's him. Loophole.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:53
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X-O posted:I say kill all the older versions of the X-Men and leave the younger ones. I'm much more interested in them. Yes! Two down already!
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Nov 5, 2015 01:38
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Blockhouse posted:I feel like if Jean wasn't involved with this I'd have way less of a problem It's just bad storytelling. It barely even qualifies as a coming-out story, given that there's no meaningful foreshadowing, the gay "protagonists" have no agency in identifying their own sexuality, and whatever struggle they may have with it (and with Jean invading their innermost thoughts) is neatly wrapped up in a page or two. And given the eight-month gap, it's not even clear we'll see either Bobby come out to anyone else. Basically, it's a coming-out story minus anything that would make for compelling drama or organic character development.
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Nov 5, 2015 01:57
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It was pretty jarring to go from Uncanny where Scott gathers all the mutants for a peaceful demonstration and earns admiration for it, to Extraordinary where he did something and everyone hates him again. Like, come on. Bendis wrapped up the whole "grr we hate Scott" thing and then on the same day they're right back at it.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:06
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UXM: Incorporating intimidation into my revolution was wrong, mutants are here among you and we're nothing to be afraid of. *smiles into the sunset* EXM: Oh my god, because of Scott, nobody is afraid of us anymore! It's open season on all mutants! I'd love to peer inside the head of whoever decided to hold back Uncanny 600 to release it alongside Extraordinary. It makes EXM's poo poo premise come across even worse.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:07
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I think Old Bobby's reasoning makes even more sense because Bendis both does and does not adhere to the sliding timescale. So, like, whole the original X-Men were plucked from whenever ten years ago was they were ALSO plucked from the 1960s and being an openly gay mutant then would not have flown. And then, as Old Bobby explained, it snowballed - pun intended.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:12
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What kind of snowball are we talking about here?
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Nov 5, 2015 02:32
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BrianWilly posted:He is? He's not nearly as Catholic as Nightcrawler, but it comes up from time to time. As Bobby himself explains in Iceman #1:  And it also comes up in more recent comics on very rare occasions:  (this one I have no idea on a source on, I just happened to have this image saved because I thought Iceman getting blessed by a priest while in ice form looked hilarious) Codependent Poster posted:It was pretty jarring to go from Uncanny where Scott gathers all the mutants for a peaceful demonstration and earns admiration for it, to Extraordinary where he did something and everyone hates him again. That and Bendis saying he had UXM600 done well before SW started makes me wonder if Bendis was talking out his rear end (very unlikely), if Lemire just wasn't informed of the ending of Uncanny before writing EXM (probably), if there's supposed to be a #0 issue like Avengers #0 where we learn Scott invited everyone to DC so no mutants would be in New York when he detonated a nuke in Time Square, etc.
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Nov 5, 2015 03:11
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That is the one where they fight Dracula so him getting blessed makes sense I guess,
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Nov 5, 2015 03:13
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Have they un-ruined Dracula yet?
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Nov 5, 2015 03:18
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So in Extraordinary, did Storm just forget that normal people have mutant babies too, not just mutants? It's just a dumb storyline all around that will be forgotten by the next superstar writer that wants to do something interesting with the X-men.
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Nov 5, 2015 03:20
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Lurdiak posted:Have they un-ruined Dracula yet? still white haired and armored as of his last appearance in Deadpool
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Nov 5, 2015 03:20
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Blockhouse posted:still white haired and armored as of his last appearance in Deadpool 
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Nov 5, 2015 03:23
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kdrudy posted:So in Extraordinary, did Storm just forget that normal people have mutant babies too, not just mutants? It'll be finished whenever Ike is finally pushed out and this nonsense with Inhumans trying to replace mutants is done with. Like, the whole thing about the mists suddenly being deadly, and no more mutants! Ever! Again! is just so terrible.
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Nov 5, 2015 03:27
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Alright, I'm confused about the Uncanny/Bobby's reveal, I swear there were preview pages released where that specific scene played out to make present-Bobby realize young-Jean was controlling young-Bobby and the actual twist that neither versions of Bobby was gay and it was just young-Jean being selfish/evil for (reasons). Was I just trolled by 'shops? vvv Yeah Didn't realize it was part of a big trolling effort vvv
BetterToRuleInHell fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 03:33
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Quick question: were you on an imageboard with a blue background when you saw these 'previews'?
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Nov 5, 2015 03:36
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Lurdiak posted:Quick question: were you on an imageboard with a blue background when you saw these 'previews'? Yeah, /co/ is super pissed about this. Tumblr broke their collective minds a couple years ago. On a side note, how was the last Nightcrawler run that Marvel did? I heard a few things to get me interested, and then the series just sort of vanished from discussion. Was it just subpar, then? Circutron fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 03:47
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It made me very nostalgic for the 80s, but it went nowhere and did nothing. It was a fun trip though.
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Nov 5, 2015 04:32
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Circutron posted:Yeah, /co/ is super pissed about this. Tumblr broke their collective minds a couple years ago. Modern day Claremont.
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Nov 5, 2015 04:32
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What was Nightcrawler's last run? I remember demon pirates in heaven and can't help but smile a little reflecting on the words I just typed.
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Nov 5, 2015 06:04
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:What was Nightcrawler's last run? I remember demon pirates in heaven and can't help but smile a little reflecting on the words I just typed. Demon Pirates in heaven was Aaron's Amazing X-men
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Nov 5, 2015 06:23
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