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The attacks could have been even worse. A few days ago German police supposedly arrested a person from Montenegro heading towards Paris after they found explosives, grenades and machine guns in his car during a routine traffic control. http://www.br.de/nachrichten/schleierfahnder-attentat-paris-100.html
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Nov 14, 2015 11:28
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Well, Hollande did wish for his popularity to explode...
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Nov 14, 2015 11:34
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Friendly Tumour posted:Well, Hollande did wish for his popularity to explode... It's a fickle business though. Any misstep and it all swings to Le Pen.
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Nov 14, 2015 11:46
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ISIS has put out a statement in French and Arabic claiming responsibility for the attack.
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Nov 14, 2015 12:25
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Brown Moses posted:ISIS has put out a statement in French and Arabic claiming responsibility for the attack. So, what happens now? France goes 9/11?
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Nov 14, 2015 12:27
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Brown Moses posted:ISIS has put out a statement in French and Arabic claiming responsibility for the attack. Also in their statement they mention eight ISIS people involved, which as their are eight dead hopefully means theirs no one still armed and on the run (they could be lying of course). "The Spectator posted:Eight brothers carrying explosive belts and guns targeted areas in the heart of the French capital that were specifically chosen in advance: the Stade de France during a match against Germany which the imbecile, Francois Hollande, was attending; the Bataclan where hundreds of idolaters were together in a party of perversity as well as other targets in the 10th, 11th and 18th arrondissement. France and those who follow its path must know that they remain the principle targets of the Islamic State… Only other thing of note is that the footy match was purposefully chosen as it was a much against Germany and the attack was specifically because of Frances involvement in attacking ISIS. Other then that the rest of it seems to just be generic ISIS BS.
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Nov 14, 2015 12:42
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What can France do in the ME in response?
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Nov 14, 2015 12:44
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Peel posted:What can France do in the ME in response? Bring the NATO hammer down, smash ISIS, kill its leadership and set us up for another bloody insurgency in a few years' time.
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Nov 14, 2015 12:52
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German vice-chancellor stated that attacks will not change refugee politics. Roughly: "Many people seek refuge in Europe and we are not allowed to let them suffer just because they're from the regions from which terrorism is carried all over the world. We have to protect them and make sure they won't be afflicted."
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Nov 14, 2015 12:54
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Honj Steak posted:German vice-chancellor stated that attacks will not change refugee politics. Roughly: "Many people seek refuge in Europe and we are not allowed to let them suffer just because they're from the regions from which terrorism is carried all over the world. We have to protect them and make sure they won't be afflicted." Yeah I don't see how that's going to hold up. Not unless the German government can ensure that none of them, not one of them, is in any way affiliated with ISIS, and good luck with that. I mean, I agree with the sentiment and it's pretty obvious that ISIS wants to ensure that Muslims don't get to see the West from its slightly more tolerant side, but I don't see how Merkel can keep justifying her refugee policies now. It's going to get so, so bad. We'll all be lucky if no one has been lynched by the end of next week.
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Nov 14, 2015 13:09
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my dad posted:So, what happens now? France goes 9/11?
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Nov 14, 2015 13:44
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The thing I'd like to see is a french nuclear cruise missile hitting isis's biggest city. va te faire foutre
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Nov 14, 2015 13:47
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That's like saying I'd love to nuke NYC to get rid of the rat population.
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Nov 14, 2015 13:51
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Baloogan posted:The thing I'd like to see is a french nuclear cruise missile hitting isis's biggest city. va te faire foutre dude they should glass mecca
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Nov 14, 2015 13:52
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Count Roland posted:dude they should glass mecca that'll learn em
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Nov 14, 2015 13:53
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Dr. Henry Kissinger posted:The thing I'd like to see is a french nuclear cruise missile hitting isis's biggest city. va te faire foutre That would seem to be Mosul. Population one Million plus (seen some numbers around 1.4-1.7 million.) Estimates of the Total number of ISIS recruits range from 20,000 to 200,000 spread across Iraq and Syria. So yeah.... that would be nearly all civilians you would be killing. Good job on finding a way of actually being worse then ISIS. dr_rat fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Nov 14, 2015 |
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Nov 14, 2015 14:08
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I wouldn't be surprised to see more material backing and special forces support for the Kurds, although that would also go along way in recognizing the Kurds as autonomous and Erdogan is not having that.
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Nov 14, 2015 14:21
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Lascivious Sloth posted:That's like saying I'd love to nuke NYC to get rid of the rat population. I mean, that's not an awful idea. (joking people)
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Nov 14, 2015 14:28
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Erdogan however can suck a dick. At this point the Wien talks are resuming with the basis of separating "moderate" rebel groups from the others and work for a ceasefire with them, and pacify (read:kill) the rest. Assad can go as long as foreign interests and his own personal safety is guaranteed. This is more or less Russian proposal.
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Nov 14, 2015 14:29
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FaustianQ posted:I wouldn't be surprised to see more material backing and special forces support for the Kurds, although that would also go along way in recognizing the Kurds as autonomous and Erdogan is not having that. More material backing to Kurds and legit rebel groups would certainly be a good thing. Even apparently just things like winter gear. Also just money so that the Kurdish troops can get paid. Seems like some of the peshmerga haven't been paid for over three month now due to the Kurdistan Regional Government having no cash. "washington times posted:Kurdish peshmerga fighters who have proved the most effective force against the Islamic State have not been paid for the past three months and badly need winter gear and ammunition if they are to hold ground seized from the extremists over the past year, a top Kurdish intelligence official said Tuesday...
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Nov 14, 2015 14:39
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I don't expect that much will change in Syria. Probably a lot will change in France. Maybe vigilantism and probably more restrictions on free speech. Maybe more ability to detain people known to be radicalized before there is a known plot. I expect when the dust settles it will just be more of the same with the air campaign and support for troops currently on the ground. Of course, the language this morning of "act of war" could be a preamble to a ground invasion. I wonder how many different countries we can fit into Syria. I wonder if Daesh has considered attacking China?
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Nov 14, 2015 15:14
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:I don't expect that much will change in Syria. Probably a lot will change in France. Maybe vigilantism and probably more restrictions on free speech. Maybe more ability to detain people known to be radicalized before there is a known plot. I expect when the dust settles it will just be more of the same with the air campaign and support for troops currently on the ground. China has a muslim minority, so of course they are somewhere on the list.
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Nov 14, 2015 15:22
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ArchangeI posted:China has a muslim minority, so of course they are somewhere on the list. I know and there have been attacks but none that I know of specifically inspired/linked to ISIS.
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Nov 14, 2015 15:26
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 imma make you hurt hurt, make you hurt.
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Nov 14, 2015 15:29
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dr_rat posted:More material backing to Kurds and legit rebel groups would certainly be a good thing. Even apparently just things like winter gear. Michael Knight works for the government now? Why can't they send KITT and Goliath in to finish the job dammit?
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Nov 14, 2015 15:42
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So, they're talking about an act of war. Paris just experienced something that is usually experienced in Baghdad or Damascus. Last time poo poo like this started happening on a regular basis (remember Ankara a month ago?), two countries got invaded (even if the second invasion didn't have anything to do with radical islam in the end) and dozens more got swept up in conflicts of their own. Now the terrorist group is much, much worse (maybe not in terms of attacks to the west, certainly in terms of everything else), and they don't only have the West against them, but literally everyone else in the world as well pretty much. The second act on War on Terror is going to get much worse, ugh. How hawkish is Hillary Clinton? Are we going to see some sort of NATO-led ground war on ISIS, pacts made with Iran, Russia and Assad to wipe these people out,? France is at the very least going to step up the air war, I'd say, but there might be demands for more. Turkey...is Turkey. Like it's pretty clear it's going to take pretty much wiping out ISIS to stop them from inspiring people to do this stuff, and I don't think people are willing to wait for a decade long grinding effort of Kurds and Assad's forces who have already been fighting non-stop for three years to finish it. We can take people dying in the Middle East daily, but in the West on a semi-monthly basis? On this scale? Don't think so. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Nov 14, 2015 |
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Nov 14, 2015 16:43
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Act of war? Did France diplomatically recognize the Islamic State?
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Nov 14, 2015 16:46
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Aliquid posted:Act of war? Did France diplomatically recognize the Islamic State? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34820016
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Nov 14, 2015 16:46
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Aliquid posted:Act of war? Did France diplomatically recognize the Islamic State? It doesn't really matter if they are a state or not, ISIS wants to play with the big boys and be its own country, but doesn't seem to grasp that carrying out attacks like this is a guaranteed way to never be recognized as such.
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Nov 14, 2015 16:52
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Aliquid posted:Act of war? Did France diplomatically recognize the Islamic State? I'm hoping and I think its pretty likely, he was just using that as a figure of speech and not as an actually declaration of war by France against IS as a nation state, meaning France actually considered the Islamic State a legitimate nation state.
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Nov 14, 2015 16:58
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dr_rat posted:I'm hoping and I think its pretty likely, he was just using that as a figure of speech and not as an actually declaration of war by France against IS as a nation state, meaning France actually considered the Islamic State a legitimate nation state. You don't have to recognise a would be state to be in a state of armed conflict with it, see the USA and AQ/Taliban etc, this pretty much qualifies as an armed attack which will clear France to act in self defence. It just means the characteristics of the conflict are non-international rather than international, something arguably much more favourable to France as non-international conflicts have much looser rules.
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Nov 14, 2015 17:14
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Aliquid posted:Act of war? Did France diplomatically recognize the Islamic State? No, he said "c'est un acte de guerre commis par une armée terroriste, Daech, une armée de jihadistes, contre la France" (It's an act of war committed by a terrorist army, Daesh, an army of jihadists, against France). He didn't call IS a sovereign nation.
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Nov 14, 2015 17:29
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He also referred to ISIL as a terrorist "Army" so the verbage is lining up for an interesting NATO response. We'll see what actions are taken, but I am expecting something more than increased bombing and support to the Kurds to occur. E: ^^^ Gah, need to update the thread before I post.
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Nov 14, 2015 17:34
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Lotta EU moderates about to swing to the right. Imagine what will happen if it turns out the attackers got in as refugees, good lord. Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:I don't expect that much will change in Syria. Probably a lot will change in France. Maybe vigilantism and probably more restrictions on free speech. Maybe more ability to detain people known to be radicalized before there is a known plot. I expect when the dust settles it will just be more of the same with the air campaign and support for troops currently on the ground. Uh there's no way in gently caress things don't change in Syria as a result of this. No response would be basically handing the keys over to the far right.
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Nov 14, 2015 17:37
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I expect the Europeans to push for a deal in Syria which allows the Syrian state to survive, but without Assad. They will work with the Regime to reconquer the rest of Syria. If Obama wasn't the US president and he didn't have a commitment to keeping large American forces out the fight I imagine the French and the rest of the Europeans to request American aid in a joint land invasion/occupation. But due to Obama's refusal to commit forces, the only way to end the conflict would be European forces joining with Russia and the Regime. With both Russian and Western European populations being attacked in the same month, there will be popular support for a settlement. I think the real trick is allowing Obama to save face.
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Nov 14, 2015 17:57
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This is France were talking about. The diplomatic front to watch is at the UN, they've already filed an article 51 letter (which they did before they started hitting ISIS in Syria) but if anything France is gonna push the UNSC to sign up to the proposed code of conduct for war crimes and mass killings that's been floating about and press for a resolution.
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Nov 14, 2015 17:58
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What is going on in Vienna? Kerry talking about a transitional government and elections within 18 months, but no agreement on what happens to Assad? This seems like the worst kind of reactionism. https://twitter.com/AP/status/665572254730854400 https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/665567243204456448
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Nov 14, 2015 18:02
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Lotta EU moderates about to swing to the right. Imagine what will happen if it turns out the attackers got in as refugees, good lord. One of the attackers was a Syrian refugee who entered the EU through Greece this summer. Expect the situation for refugees in the EU to get way worse in the next few months.
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Nov 14, 2015 18:02
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Xandu posted:What is going on in Vienna? Kerry talking about a transitional government and elections within 18 months, but no agreement on what happens to Assad? This seems like the worst kind of reactionism. Assad will be allowed to run is my understanding.
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Nov 14, 2015 18:05
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And will the millions of refugees be allowed to vote? What about those living in Raqqa? This just feels premature.
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Nov 14, 2015 18:05
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