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Chocolate Teapot posted:It's comics (and films) like these that illustrate why DC is way better at dealing with class issues than Marvel ever could. "Money can't buy you happiness" is a notion that lost all meaning after Reagan/Thatcher's time in office, where the gulf between rich and poor became so endless that the idea of a working rich guy like Tony Stark is so far beyond the pale it may as well be set in a permanent time-loop fixed at 40 years ago. If a celebrity wants people to hear what they think, you can bet that there'll be an outlet willing to give them all the airtime they want. I don't even find the idea of Tony Stark being depressed objectionable, and he's absolutely right: there is always someone with a worse story (I remember playing one of the Marvel Alliance games and there's a part in a bar or something and I, as Ghost Rider, tried to talk to The Thing and he was all "I'm soooo ugly" and I'm thinking "Motherfucker I'm a burning skull" it was during that "self pitying Thing" time) so finding a sympathetic ear might take one or two tries but, hell, at the very least Captain America will ALWAYS listen. The problem here isn't with the basic idea but the fact that they're ignoring that his money absolutely makes him happier than a broke rear end hero facing the same problems. Compare and contrast his situation with Spider-Man before he became a mainstream hero and then a billionaire businessman (but not married, because who can relate to that??) Archyduke posted:I don't know, even though both companies lean hard on the trope of the virtuous rich guy helping the world with his largesse, I think Marvel's long-running love-affair with the idea of the relatable blue-collar supervillain makes their comics a lot more amenable to making meaningful statements about class. There have been so many Marvel stories since the 80's about guys with Armadillo suits or whatever being forced into crime by heartless economic factors that it's hard not to see that as one of the big ever-present struts that Marvel Logic is built on.  "I honestly don't see why this makes people so mad (then I checked rap sheets)
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Nov 13, 2015 19:04
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Duke Igthorn posted:I don't even find the idea of Tony Stark being depressed objectionable, and he's absolutely right: there is always someone with a worse story (I remember playing one of the Marvel Alliance games and there's a part in a bar or something and I, as Ghost Rider, tried to talk to The Thing and he was all "I'm soooo ugly" and I'm thinking "Motherfucker I'm a burning skull" it was during that "self pitying Thing" time) so finding a sympathetic ear might take one or two tries but, hell, at the very least Captain America will ALWAYS listen. The problem here isn't with the basic idea but the fact that they're ignoring that his money absolutely makes him happier than a broke rear end hero facing the same problems. Compare and contrast his situation with Spider-Man before he became a mainstream hero and then a billionaire businessman (but not married, because who can relate to that??) Nobody cares about the social ramifications of banter in a Bendis comic. Even fewer people care what you think about those ramifications. Yes, I am saying that fewer than zero people care about your opinion.
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Nov 13, 2015 19:09
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Duke Igthorn posted:I don't even find the idea of Tony Stark being depressed objectionable, and he's absolutely right: there is always someone with a worse story (I remember playing one of the Marvel Alliance games and there's a part in a bar or something and I, as Ghost Rider, tried to talk to The Thing and he was all "I'm soooo ugly" and I'm thinking "Motherfucker I'm a burning skull" it was during that "self pitying Thing" time) so finding a sympathetic ear might take one or two tries but, hell, at the very least Captain America will ALWAYS listen. The problem here isn't with the basic idea but the fact that they're ignoring that his money absolutely makes him happier than a broke rear end hero facing the same problems. Compare and contrast his situation with Spider-Man before he became a mainstream hero and then a billionaire businessman (but not married, because who can relate to that??) The thing is Tony is a self loathing egomaniac. There is a reason why he drinks and it has to do with how he never feels that he is good enough. He also ruined all his friendships and at this point no one really wants anything to do with him. His money will not help him here.
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Nov 13, 2015 19:10
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Duke Igthorn posted:I don't even find the idea of Tony Stark being depressed objectionable, and he's absolutely right: there is always someone with a worse story (I remember playing one of the Marvel Alliance games and there's a part in a bar or something and I, as Ghost Rider, tried to talk to The Thing and he was all "I'm soooo ugly" and I'm thinking "Motherfucker I'm a burning skull" it was during that "self pitying Thing" time) so finding a sympathetic ear might take one or two tries but, hell, at the very least Captain America will ALWAYS listen. The problem here isn't with the basic idea but the fact that they're ignoring that his money absolutely makes him happier than a broke rear end hero facing the same problems. Compare and contrast his situation with Spider-Man before he became a mainstream hero and then a billionaire businessman (but not married, because who can relate to that??) I mean I absolutely think getting into economics is worth doing in comics, but I also think that that pretty much has to happen-- within the idiom of superheroes at least-- as a morality play. In that regard I think its pretty rad that a hippo turned to crime because it was denied food and housing. It's better than nothing. or having a hippo that turned to crime because it was just an awful hippo to begin with. I don't think there will ever be an issue of Avengers West Coast or whatever that will make Gyorgy Lukacs rise from his grave with a big thumbs-up but I think having a fantasy space that acknowledges these things is better than having a fantasy space that doesn't. "Luke Cage Good, Roxxon Corporation Bad" is not the worst kind of black and white morality play to have out there.
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Nov 13, 2015 19:28
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bobkatt013 posted:The thing is Tony is a self loathing egomaniac. There is a reason why he drinks and it has to do with how he never feels that he is good enough. He also ruined all his friendships and at this point no one really wants anything to do with him. His money will not help him here. Archyduke posted:I mean I absolutely think getting into economics is worth doing in comics, but I also think that that pretty much has to happen-- within the idiom of superheroes at least-- as a morality play. In that regard I think its pretty rad that a hippo turned to crime because it was denied food and housing. It's better than nothing. or having a hippo that turned to crime because it was just an awful hippo to begin with. I don't think there will ever be an issue of Avengers West Coast or whatever that will make Gyorgy Lukacs rise from his grave with a big thumbs-up but I think having a fantasy space that acknowledges these things is better than having a fantasy space that doesn't. "Luke Cage Good, Roxxon Corporation Bad" is not the worst kind of black and white morality play to have out there. Of course then there's the problem of the writer's scope being so limited. In reality the gulf between "rich" and "poor" in a comic book universe would dwarf our real one because the rich can buy the ability to fly. Not to mention that Hulk just smashed a car that was someone's only way to get to work. It's like in the Left Behind books where the result of a nuke being dropped on Chicago was slightly worse traffic; the writer's can't wrap their head around how much this type of technology would actually change the world.
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Nov 13, 2015 20:22
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I'm sure all the words on this page are very interesting and worthy, but this is a Panels thread. If you're gonna post lots of words, pay the drat panel tax or take it to another thread. Spider-Man and the X-men #6. The entire series has been a love letter to teachers. It's so drat chirpy and upbeat, but is not above gentle but loving ribbing of comics and tropes. Elliot Kalan loves comics, we love comics, let's have comics. Buy Marvel Unlimited and read the drat comics first Warning, out of context character growth happens here. Comics may be suitable for little people        
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Nov 13, 2015 21:16
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bobkatt013 posted:The thing is Tony is a self loathing egomaniac. There is a reason why he drinks and it has to do with how he never feels that he is good enough. He also ruined all his friendships and at this point no one really wants anything to do with him. His money will not help him here. Probably doesn't help that there's 3 other heroes currently as wealthy or even more than he is at the moment, that are not only more liked currently for various reasons, but are also way more generous with their money than Tony almost ever is, so it's not hard to see why the rest of the hero community isn't willing to put up with him anymore beyond the barest minimum, as there's people who are better at science, better at fighting, better at being the "Rich Man Sponsor", and aren't held down as much by a whole ton of baggage from being a massive dick multiple times in recent times(since sliding time means it's been 2-5 years at most since Civil War in universe), so really the question becomes at this point "Who Needs An Iron Man Anymore?" and at this point the answer seems to be that only Tony needs Iron Man anymore, rest of the world would probably be glad to be rid of him(when your popularity dips below Spider-Man, Deadpool, and Sunspot, you know you have problems)
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Nov 13, 2015 22:30
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Spider-Man and the X-Men was too beautiful for this world. Also the only worthwhile thing to come out of a X-Men comic in like two or three years. It's been dire.
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Nov 14, 2015 00:56
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Saoshyant posted:Spider-Man and the X-Men was too beautiful for this world. Also the only worthwhile thing to come out of a X-Men comic in like two or three years. It's been dire. Hopefully those kids don't get screwed over too badly by this whole "Terrigen Mists are killing Mutants" mess
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Nov 14, 2015 00:59
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drrockso20 posted:Hopefully those kids don't get screwed over too badly by this whole "Terrigen Mists are killing Mutants" mess They're sterile now, so there's that. But wouldn't normal humans still be able to have mutant children?
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Nov 14, 2015 01:09
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hiddenriverninja posted:They're sterile now, so there's that. But wouldn't normal humans still be able to have mutant children? They'll handwave it that NO MORE MUTANTS took care of that.
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Nov 14, 2015 01:22
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Well, until the writers get bored and someone does an X-gene virus bomb that reintroduces it
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Nov 14, 2015 01:26
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drrockso20 posted:Hopefully those kids don't get screwed over too badly by this whole "Terrigen Mists are killing Mutants" mess Let me tell you about Generation X and how mutant kids get treated after their series end
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Nov 14, 2015 01:34
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Due to the events tonight Captain America 3 
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Nov 14, 2015 02:30
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goatface posted:Well, until the writers get bored and someone does an X-gene virus bomb that reintroduces it Not likely to happen unless Fox decides they don't want the movie rights to X-Men anymore.
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Nov 14, 2015 03:00
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bobkatt013 posted:The thing is Tony is a self loathing egomaniac. No. The Thing is a rock man.
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Nov 14, 2015 03:07
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hiddenriverninja posted:They're sterile now, so there's that. But wouldn't normal humans still be able to have mutant children? poo poo, I just realized that would double down on the X-Men as a homosexuality allegory. SirDan3k fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Nov 14, 2015 |
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Nov 14, 2015 03:11
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Idran posted:Not likely to happen unless Fox decides they don't want the movie rights to X-Men anymore. Yeah,they have 5 X-Men titles, plus Wolverine and Deadpool because Marvel Comics are trying to get rid of mutants.
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Nov 14, 2015 03:14
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Skwirl posted:Yeah,they have 5 X-Men titles, plus Wolverine and Deadpool because Marvel Comics are trying to get rid of mutants. Deadpool's not really a mutant, as the X-Men will be quick to mention, but your point stands regardless. With no exaggeration or hyperbole: Spider-Man and the X-Men was one of the best comics I ever read.
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Nov 14, 2015 03:38
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Chaos Hippy posted:Deadpool's not really a mutant, Fox studios would be quick to disagree with you.
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Nov 14, 2015 04:45
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He isn't, though.
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Nov 14, 2015 04:47
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He's a mutate, not a mutant!   
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Nov 14, 2015 05:28
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Skwirl posted:Fox studios would be quick to disagree with you. You weren't talking about movies.
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Nov 14, 2015 08:14
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Chaos Hippy posted:You weren't talking about movies. And even if he was, I'm pretty sure the Deadpool movie is using the comic origin of him being experimented on by Weapon X.
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Nov 14, 2015 13:33
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I love seeing all the  about marvel killing off xmen books. There's like 5 or 6 xmen books, and a gently caress ton of popular mutants spread around on teams.
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Nov 14, 2015 17:32
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Chaos Hippy posted:You weren't talking about movies. I threw him in with mutants because the theories about Marvel getting rid of mutants is generally based around the fact they don't have the movie rights. Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Nov 14, 2015 |
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Nov 14, 2015 18:50
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Norns posted:I love seeing all the And even if they are trying to keep the X books in their own corner for the most part, that's where they thrived anyways. People used to hate when they'd deal with the Avengers or other non mutants.
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Nov 14, 2015 18:54
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I'm totally fine with the x-people interacting with the rest of the Marvel universe as long as no one is asking Captain America what he's done for the X-skinned people lately.
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Nov 14, 2015 18:57
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Travis343 posted:Let me tell you about Generation X and how mutant kids get treated after their series end
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Nov 14, 2015 19:03
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Endless Mike posted:To be fair, only like two or three Gen-X'ers have died. That's not really any worse than the New Mutants. Like 90% of the New X-Men kids were blown up unceremonially after being depowered. Are you counting the ones who got turned into lovely vampires?
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Nov 14, 2015 19:17
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I was convinced there had to be more, but it really was only Synch, Skin, and Mondo (who somehow managed to turn evil twice, because clones). Not that Jono, Paige, Jubilee, and Penance/M/Penance/whatever had a great time of it between then and now.
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Nov 14, 2015 19:46
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Oh my god that last page of Superman American Alien #1.
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Nov 15, 2015 01:58
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Endless Mike posted:To be fair, only like two or three Gen-X'ers have died. That's not really any worse than the New Mutants. Like 90% of the New X-Men kids were blown up unceremonially after being depowered. I'm not saying they're going to die. I'm saying they're going to be scattered to the four winds of the Marvel U, left as carrion for other writers to kill, maim, depower, turn into vampires, clone, become villains, etc. Like of the Gen X kids Skin, Synch and Mondo are dead, Jubilee is a vampire, and Chamber was depowered and on life support as he now has a huge empty hole where his vital organs would be. Monet was two people, then one person again. Penance is apparently nobody. Husk has done the best out of all of them, joining the X-Men, getting with Angel, but apparently she was being creepstalked by Toad who loving collected her discarded skin and then her powers started erasing her memories when she shed her skin. Don't be a teenage mutant, christ.
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Nov 15, 2015 16:44
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Chamber became an Apocalypse then became not an Apocalypse but back to his original powers and look after he was depowered, actually.
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Nov 15, 2015 17:26
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Travis343 posted:Like of the Gen X kids Skin, Synch and Mondo are dead, Jubilee is a vampire, and Chamber was depowered and on life support as he now has a huge empty hole where his vital organs would be. Monet was two people, then one person again. Penance is apparently nobody. Husk has done the best out of all of them, joining the X-Men, getting with Angel, but apparently she was being creepstalked by Toad who loving collected her discarded skin and then her powers started erasing her memories when she shed her skin. xmen.txt
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Nov 15, 2015 18:16
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Hey are we still talking about Iron Man? I've got some panels! Only they're less touching and more sad. But they're from one of my favorite stories so whatever. Tony Stark's on the run from the law because Norman Osborn's in charge of    For some reason him having to listen to the intro to electrical engineering tapes at the end just gets to me. Anyway I forget the issue number, it's from the World's Most Wanted arc of Fraction's Iron Man run.
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Nov 15, 2015 19:57
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Nov 15, 2015 20:45
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TwoPair posted:
"Who's Happy?"
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Nov 15, 2015 21:55
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Justice Society of America did a pretty similar thing with their own super smart guy, Mr. Terrific (aka. Michael Holt), who'd been robbed of all his own knowledge through some unexplained process by a crazed fan of the original Mr. Terrific: (Justice Society of America Vol.3 #52)
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Nov 15, 2015 22:09
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Gummy Joe posted:Justice Society of America did a pretty similar thing with their own super smart guy, Mr. Terrific (aka. Michael Holt), who'd been robbed of all his own knowledge through some unexplained process by a crazed fan of the original Mr. Terrific: That's closer to the funny panels thread- there are literacy materials available that don't star talking animal cartoons. It really undercuts the message.
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Nov 15, 2015 23:11
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