Karpaw posted:

Karpaw posted:

Ali Alkali posted:

Karpaws posts makes me actually wish for the destruction of sweden and the replacement of its people.

OhYeah posted:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/12/universities-in-britain-and-the-u-s-are-losing-their-moral-compass.html

I assume you know who Nawaz is. If you don't you should look him up, he is a former radical and now leads a counter-extremism initiative.

Kajeesus posted:

What do you think of the way this article is written? Is the language pretty standard for the kind of news sources you read? Because it's a really, really bad article.

OhYeah posted:

In any case, I'm interested to find out what are your main points of contention in the article.

Revelation 2-13 posted:

My main point of contention is that the mans sweeping idiotic generalizations and bias, completely overwhelms and drowns out whatever good points he might happen to bring up along the way in his inane rambling. In addition, it's a fairly typical example of people who only have the most tenuous grasp of what morality is and how it can be understood, to bring up other peoples 'lack of moral compass'. It's not about saying that right and wrong doesn't exist, or moral relativity more generally, it's about understanding, that nearly no one sees themselves (or whatever ideology they're entrenched in) as amoral. Even most bat-poo poo insane serial killers, mass murderers and literal nazis, usually think they're doing 'the right thing'.

quote:

This is the Scandinavia thread though, so...

Returning to Espersens 'bomb the women and children' line, I'm loving flabbergasted that he doesn't seem to understand that this line of reasoning is exactly the same line of reasoning ISIS uses; "It's gone too far, they've crossed the line and killed too many of us, they are not even human beings, we have wipe them all out!". When morons like Espersen (a high-ranking politically elected representative) stoop to their level, and accept their argument that civilians are valid targets, it becomes a numbers game, and really, considering the 200.000 civilian deaths in Iraq alone (that's the most conservative estimate, other reports say it's closer to 1 million) without actually trying, he loses his moral high ground to loving ISIS - think about that for a moment. Sure, we don't behead anyone or throw them off buildings, we're more into non-personal industrial scale extermination, but even if we add all the deaths from terrorism (including everything, from Ireland and Spain to South America) in modern history together, we'd be hard pressed to reach such a high number of civilian deaths. I understand that a Carthaginian peace seems the right choice for idiots like Espersen, especially when they're really angry and have no idea what they should do, but come the gently caress on. We accept basic human rights, we don't do war crimes (on purpose anyway) and that's why we can legitimately say we have the moral authority (flawed as it might be, by the unfortunate practicalities of reality).

This is aside from the fact that it would only create even more fanatics willing to strap bombs to themselves and blow up random people.

It also boggles the mind, that the Espersen is leading the charge on closing our borders to the very people who are trying to escape that god forsaken hellhole of sectarian violence we created. I'm surprised the man can even hear himself think, over the sheer volume of cognitive dissonance that must be going on inside his head.

OhYeah posted:

I agree completely, except maybe for the last part. I don't think countries which had nothing to do with destabilizing the situation in the ME should be responsible for clearing out this mess.

OhYeah posted:

Xoidanor posted:

A lone estonians fight against the massive PC-conspiracy, coming to cinemas this christmas.

Scherloch posted:

Denmark has taken part in both the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq, they most definitely have had something to do with destabilizing the situation. As have your own. Oh, and I know that you don't think that makes them or you responsible in any way, but that's just you being you.

Xoidanor posted:

That you sound really silly?

As someone that has actually been part of Scandinavia, let me tell you, radical islamism is not a verboten topic in academia. Quite the opposite.

OhYeah posted:

Your criticism is very general and vague. He is saying that many of the universities in Anglo-Saxon world have become filled with a load of spineless cunts who will not call out bullshit when they see it because maintaining whatever arbitrary level of PC culture is more important than actually fighting against a worldwide ideology that would rather take the entire world back to the 7th century. Please keep in mind this is coming from a muslim who is a former radical and who has repeatedly argued that Islam is a religion of peace. His point is that the muslim world cannot fight religious extremism by themselves, they need the help of the West, which we are unable to give because we are afraid to offend people and be labelled "(culturally) racist". It's pretty clear that the roots of the radicalism are in the Middle-East but the most fertile ground are the poor suburbs in major European cities. So to fight religious extremism you need to cut off funding and supply lines in the ME and improve the living conditions and levels of integration in Europe.

This is the issue though. It hasn't been going so well in the last 3-4 decades and I will bet my scalp on the fact that it will only get worse, since the first response after a terrorist attack always seems to be LET'S BOMB SOME WEDDINGS IN THE MIDDLE-EAST. This is also why no Eastern European countries want to see mass immigration, because we all see what a terrible job you've done even with all your resources.

OhYeah posted:

So to fight religious extremism you need to cut off funding and supply lines in the ME and improve the living conditions and levels of integration in Europe.

OhYeah posted:

I don't think countries which had nothing to do with destabilizing the situation in the ME should be responsible for clearing out this mess.

OhYeah posted:

Yes, Estonian boots were on the ground, but they were there mostly doing patrolling and peacekeeping and not bombing goat herders and weddings.

Fanzay posted:

Yes, making the situation in the Middle East even worse is a surefire way to fight religious extremism.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Well, it kinda depends on what he means be funding and supply lines. Like, preventing the Saudis from funding anything outside their own borders, whether in the Middle East or elsewhere, would probably be one of the most effective moves in preventing religious extremism.

OhYeah posted:

Yes, Estonian boots were on the ground, but they were there mostly doing patrolling and peacekeeping and not bombing goat herders and weddings.

OhYeah posted:

"(culturally) racist"

OhYeah posted:

I don't filter my sources of information, I tried to read a wide range of news media, so-called yellow journalism included. I even read insane ramblings by third wave feminists to form on accurate picture of what their world view is.

OhYeah posted:

In any case, I'm interested to find out what are your main points of contention in the article.

quote:

But it is only when Kavar Kurda went to speak to Asad Khan in an attempt to understand his reasoning that the real crime, the Union officer’s dogged refusal to think, became apparent. Asad Khan went on to offer what is the most cowardly, duplicitous and frankly morally repugnant obfuscations proffered by post-modern relativists since George Monibot penned his Guardian column that absurdly equated Western jihadists who join ISIS with Orwell’s anti-fascist brigades.

Using the old trope that leaves every high school-level debating society initiate thinking he’s discovered the Higgs Boson, Asad Khan went on to explain that “one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist… in every conflict there are two sides, and at UCLU we want to avoid taking sides in conflicts… [I don’t] agree with western definitions of groups…the Syrian crisis is a very contentious topic with many different groups, and although I understand YPG are fighting against ISIS the situation is far too complex to understand in black and white as expected by the student.” With that, Macer was banned.

OhYeah posted:

EDIT: http://mvlehti.net/2015/11/13/onko-tama-tappaja-nyt-suomessa-turvapaikanhakijana-k-18-kuvia/

gently caress me if this turns out to be same guy.

Cardiac posted:

Oddly appropriate to this discussion:


The problem with saying that these attacks had nothing to do with islam is the fact that these guys practice and advocate an extreme form of islam and clearly states that as a motive.
So, yeah, islam has something to do with it.
Also, blaming everything on the west becomes another case of the white mans burden, i.e. feeding the terrorists idea while taking away their responsibility for their actions.
It is not like the ME have been an haven for peace the last 1000 years anyways, and that the most common battle down there is muslim-on-muslim violence.
IMO the overwhelming presence of corrupt despots (Arab socialism anyone?), clan politics and a population explosion are as well part explanations for the mess.
Islam paranoia aside, most muslims are not fanatics, although the statistics I have seen point to a larger acceptance of it than in Western countries.
We are on the other hand farther on the so called civilization route (see Better Angels of our Nature), which is one explanation for that.

Cardiac posted:

What however makes me more concerned about the Paris attacks is the fact that we are not far off in Sweden from being the recipient of an attack.
We have already been the target by one (luckily failed) suicide bomber, there was the shooting in Copenhagen last year, and there was the attempted attack on Jyllandsposten, where the organisers arrived from Sweden.
There are something like 300 IS member originating from Sweden, where especially Gothenburg have issues.
And one many problems with the refugee stream through Sweden was that not all of them applied for asylum in Sweden, which effectively stops us from knowing who entered and left Sweden. Most went on to Finland/Norway, but we don't really know.
Add to that a certain kind of naivety regarding these problem in the administration as Magnus Ranstorp have clearly stated and you might understand why I am concerned.

Revelation 2-13 posted:

I don't care if he is Ali Baba himself or zombie Oluf Palme risen from the dead to save us all. The guys dumbass generalizations shows how little he actually knows about universities and how vehemently he resist rational thought and debate. Universities aren't some homogeneous mass of PC enforcing, Palestinian supporting, latte drinking pillow-biters. His point, however interesting it might be, is completely lost because he so obviously don't have any idea about what goes on at universities that's it's impossible to take any of the idiotic poo poo he is saying seriously.

Also, and this is the point where you probably will be lost, his generalization about Islam and muslims, means he doesn't actually grasp the problem, this is probably exasperated by the fact that he, if he did, used to be a radical muslim. I'm not saying he might not have valuable insight to give, but he is clearly so entrenched in his position, that he 'cant see the forest for the trees'.

quote:

This has been said before, and it's really simple, I have trouble believing that people who aren't just massive trolls or literally retarded have so much trouble understanding this, but Islam isn't the problem, it's the people preforming acts of terror (there are also problems with how we define this, but that's another matter).

quote:

We know from history (even very recent history) that any ideology, any religion can be twisted into legitimizing the most heinous poo poo. You don't have to be some scholar of history or anything to know this, this isn't new, this is just the way it is. People often like to think that it's somehow because Islam hasn't been through he same development as the west has, "they're still in the seventh century, hurr, durr!". This line of thinking is almost comedic in its ignorance, because guess what regime was at the height of civilization, at the forefront of western philosophical thought and art, when it shortly thereafter turned into the most monstrous terror regime the world has ever know? Yes.. We're back to the nazis again. How about Stalins russia? How about Pol Pot, how about the loving Reagan administration? Any ideology and religion can used to justify the most horrible loving behavior, no matter where it is. The understanding of 'civilization' as some sort of step-ladder, you can move up on if you just do the correct steps, is laughably oversimplified and un-nuanced and something real anthropologists moved away from in the 1950ties.

quote:

The reason we've seen an increase in extremism among muslims (and that "fact" is actually a lot less true, than most people who just watch the news like think it is) is, among other things, because the extremists in the muslim world have an unprecedented amazing recruitment platform, namely the continuing devastation and exploitation in the middle east which has been going on in the last 20-30 years (longer really, but for our purposes it does matter). It's not that it's necessarily true, but at the very least that's the perception. I should mention here, that this is not about 'defending their actions', as idiot pundits like to jump to saying when this point is raised, it's about understanding the cause. People don't turn suicide bombers because they read the koran or believe in Allah/Jehova/Sinhalese Buddhism. One of the actual reasons (and there are many) is because they've had their mothers/brothers/sisters/cousins/friends killed by what they perceive to be an unjust oppressive force, primarily but not exclusively, being bombed by the "west" (by the way using 'the west' is an equally meaningless generalization). Another is lack of education and stable surroundings. Indoctrination by insane extremist (like say, Charles Manson). It has nothing to do with Islam itself. Moreover, conservative muslims, are not the same as extremist jihadist, as much as Bill Maher would like that to be the case. Sure, when polled some of them might agree with some of tenants in radical interpretations of Islam, but so what? They have more in common with conservatives in the US/West than with terrorist extremists. Being (violently) against homosexuality is very common in easten europe (does this mean that being easten european somehow makes people violent homophobes? Is the underlying cause 'Capitalism?', having Slavic genes? Of course not, thinking that would be moronic). Thinking that women belongs at home with the cooking and should not be allowed to express themselves sexually is exceptionally common all over the world, and there are plenty more examples of this. These are all stupid opinions that various stupid people have in various places, but that doesn't mean they'll strap a bomb to themselves and blow up a random food stand. Luckily for "us", the vast, vast, vast majority of the worlds 1.5 billion muslims are just regular people, with regular jobs who like doing regular things, thinking regular thoughts. Singling out their religion as the reason for terrorism is not only mindbogglingly stupid because it means you don't understand the core problem at all, it's also bigoted and if anything you're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. At 9/11, how many americans were ready (when polled) to turn the whole of the middle-east into a glass parking lot? 10%, 15%, 20%? How many think torture is justified? That doesn't mean they'll go out and round up some people to torture and it most certainly doesn't mean that the american society somehow leads naturally to people being a huge fan torture.

quote:

It's about shoe-size and IQ, it's about ice-cream sales and shark attacks, it's about the number of firemen and how destructive a fire is. The actions of ISIS are completely abhorrent and unjustifiable, but that doesn't change the fact, that the reason is not islam, no more than the reason for IRA bombings is that they were christian.

Scherloch posted:

"Why, yes, our soldiers interacted with the local populace, helping them and working with them, thereby making said populace a target for Taliban attacks. What? No, we shouldn't take any responsibility for the unstable situation, despite the fact that some of it (and by association, a hell of a lot more of it) is a direct result of our involvement."

quote:

I'm also impressed that you've actually learned something from this thread, however little.

Kajeesus posted:

Do said insane feminist rambles render you sympathetic to their cause? If we were in disagreement on a point regarding feminism, and I posted one such article to prove a point, would you then cede that you had been wrong and I was in the right?

quote:

Oh, and lastly, the decision was overturned on Friday, yet you posted that article on Sunday. That also makes it seem like you're not particularly invested in the Macer Gifford case at all, outside of it being the most recent event to wield as evidence of political correctness gone mad. It's not even a good indictment of university culture, since the decision was overturned due to overwhelming student support.

Stefu posted:

Just so you know, the "magazine" you are linking is basically a racist, antisemitic, Putinist rumor mill which doesn't give a poo poo if their stories turn out to be false as long as they get the clicks and whose owner has basically admitted he's just running it to get ad money from hysteria (while also sharing the magazine's racist, antisemitic, Putinist etc. views).

OhYeah posted:

but what's the number one religion that has been hijacked by extremists currently? Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll#Terrorist_attacks

quote:

you rasie a good point, but you're afraid to go deep enough. why is there so much violence in the middle east? religious terrorism. why is there so much violence in europe? religious and nationalist terrorism. why is there so much violence in america? poverty, mental illness, and a culture of death. but dear reader, there is one common link, one fundemental factor underlying all of this violence: all of those who would kill another with guns, bombs, or other tools of destruction are men

90% of assaults in the us are committed by men. men are naturally more violent, aggressive, and quick to anger and lash out at others. men are the predominant drivers of violent death around the world. yet the politically correct liberal media is afraid to call out this simple truth: that a predominant majority of all violence in the world is carried out by a minority class of dangerous, unhinged people. men must be controlled, restrained, and, if necessary, killed before they can kill others. and i guarantee all five of these paris attackers, like so many before them, were men

now some namby pamby bleeding heart liberals would say that many men reject violence, that men can be great scholars, and healers, and world leaders. and this is true - some men do manage to not kill or maim anyone during their tortured pervert existence. but when a man kills dozens, do you see men standing up and speaking out against this rampant plague of male violence? no. men, as a whole, never attempt to explain their kind or decry this ridiculous spate of killings, assaults, and violence against others

i beg you to stop being a hypocrite, and realize that backwards, degenerate men are more dangerous than the ivory tower kumbyah intellectuals would have you believe. make up your own mind. do the research, lest you be led astray like a common sheep with these soothing lies that men aren't a fundamental threat to western civilization

Cardiac posted:

The problem with saying that these attacks had nothing to do with islam is the fact that these guys practice and advocate an extreme form of islam and clearly states that as a motive.
So, yeah, islam has something to do with it.

OhYeah posted:

This is a very good example how to get the maximum number of points from an argument that you actually lost. While it is true that I'm not at all invested to the Gifford case, because maybe you haven't noticed, there's a lot more going on in the world at the moment, it is however a fact that the decision to ban him was the wrong one and supports the original point.

Lord Tywin posted:

Wallström once again proves herself to be an undiplomatic tool, I wonder which country she will try to destroy our relations with next with this brilliant feminist foreign policy.

Lord Tywin posted:

Wallström once again proves herself to be an undiplomatic tool, I wonder which country she will try to destroy our relations with next with this brilliant feminist foreign policy.

Revelation 2-13 posted:

i beg you to stop being a hypocrite, and realize that backwards, degenerate men are more dangerous than the ivory tower kumbyah intellectuals would have you believe. make up your own mind. do the research, lest you be led astray like a common sheep with these soothing lies that men aren't a fundamental threat to western civilization

TheFluff posted:

You know that scientific rationalism was used back in the 18th and 19th centuries to basically invent racism as we know it, as well as justify slavery and ultimately the holocaust? Would you say that scientific rationalism has something to do with the evils of this world today?

quote:

Stefan Ingves, chef för Sveriges Riksbank, varnar för att prisrallyt på bostäder kan hota hela det svenska finansiella systemet. Det säger han i en intervju med SvD.

Stefan Ingves, chef för Sveriges Riksbank, varnar för att prisrallyt på bostäder kan hota hela det svenska finansiella systemet. Det säger han i en intervju med SvD.

Riksbankschefen Stefan Ingves varnar för att prisökningstakten på bostäder med fortsatt högre hushållsskulder kan leda till ett verkligt krisscenario, rapporterar Svenska Dagbladet.

Han säger att det är ett problem att det finansiella systemet är grundat på bostadsobligationer, vilket bland annat beror på en låg svensk statsskuld. Den svenska bostadsmarknaden påverkar inte bara hushållen och deras konsumtion.

– Riskerna rör själva kärnan i det finansiella systemet, säger Ingves till tidningen.

Hans bedömning är att priserna på bostäder ökar tills utländska investerare förlorar förtroendet för svenska bostadsobligationer. Då får bankerna svårare att finansiera sig och boräntorna stiger. Dessutom leder det till att kronan försvagas och inflationen stiger. Följden blir att Riksbanken tvingas höja reporäntan.

Groda posted:

Why not come talk about 35 year old ensamkommande flyktingsbarn at the Stockholm goon meet
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3751787

Xoidanor posted:

This is some staggering naivety on your part. All you'd need to enter the country unregistered even with full border controls is a boat or an European citizenship. Your registrations would do dick all to actually deter an organized terrorist attack. I hate this notion that spending billions on bureaucratic registration is the solution to all of lifes problems. Resources for development are always finite but resources for unproductive nonsense is infinite.

Cardiac posted:

So you are saying it is better not to have any clue who enters or exits a country?
Cause that is working out well today with one suspected terrorist on the loose in Sweden.

Also, for your information we spend billions on bureaucratic registration. Or what do you think MigV does at the moment?

Biomute posted:

I don't have a single party I want to vote for anymore.