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Cleretic posted:Didn't Morrowind not even tell you the main quest until later on? You're just dropped off at a dock and told 'go do whatever'. Well, you're told to go meet the agent in Balmora but IIRC (its been a while) he has you faffing around delivering memos and drugs and delving into ruins for quite a while before the whole prophecy thing starts coming up.
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Nov 17, 2015 03:46
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Woolie Wool posted:Sorry about your relentless philistinism, it must be suck to be the thing dragging the entire medium down. Can't discuss themes, genres, or contradictions within a work, that's "sperging" and we're not allowed to care or think about anything beyond the superficial consumer product level.  2house2fly posted:An RPG without a main storyline sounds great. A Mass Effect where you aren't chasing some Reaper dude but just exploring the universe and getting into situations. A Fallout where you're maybe the last survivor of a vault and have lived alone for years, finally venturing out into the wasteland to see what it's like. Half the time the main story is crap anyway, Fallout 4 being both a recent and a notable example.
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Nov 17, 2015 03:48
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The biggest thing dragging down Fallout4 is that the boxing glove weapon only has 2-4 possible mod upgrades. Where the gently caress is the mods that let me add a taser, a few yards of razor wire and tasteful arrangements of full sized knives on the end?! Why won't you let me punch things even harder Bethesda?!
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Nov 17, 2015 03:55
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Horrible Smutbeast posted:The biggest thing dragging down Fallout4 is that the boxing glove weapon only has 2-4 possible mod upgrades. Where the gently caress is the mods that let me add a taser, a few yards of razor wire and tasteful arrangements of full sized knives on the end?! Why won't you let me punch things even harder Bethesda?! Bethesda hates hand to hand combat for some reason, hence stripping it form skyrim all together. Try some other fist weapons though. The generic Knuckles lets you tape some knives to it.
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Nov 17, 2015 04:02
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:Yeah Bethesda, what if I wanted my character to not have a dad? What if my character wouldn't be a prisoner and are an upstanding guard instead? Bethsada was entirely aware that F4 would sell purely on hype so they knew they could release a half-assed buggy POS and just reap the big bucks plus plenty of sycophants willing to defend everything they do and to many people confusing lovely design and lazy programming as some amazing thing that Beth totally put in there to get a sensible chuckle out of everyone. "Haha my int is 1 but I'm still lawyer GREAT JOKE BETH" "I'm running a stealth build and I fired a loving fatman at a huge group and they just went to my last location and just went back to regular non alert status, INCREDIBLE GAME BETHSADA" That's just 2 examples of lazy game design. I'm also kind of surprised there's no faux outrage over the fact the male the character is ex-army and the female character is the wife, no girls allowed in the army in in that era I guess, it also makes a bit less sense as a female character that you can use power armor since you weren't in the army whereas with the male character it makes sense, he was in the army, he was trained even if its never said during the game Probably the funniest example of the horrible writing is that you can go up to a brotherhood member in full power armor, ask them to train you in power armor usage and they'll reply with "Only brotherhood members can use power armor, just make do with what you have". Oh and none writing complaint, melee is super bad in F4 since almost everything can stunlock you out of it.
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Nov 17, 2015 04:03
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Tiggum posted:
I don't know that you do. "You are an adventurer, go adventure" as prelude to a fun game is probably plenty for most people.
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Nov 17, 2015 04:07
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Alteisen posted:I'm also kind of surprised there's no faux outrage over the fact the male the character is ex-army and the female character is the wife, no girls allowed in the army in in that era I guess, it also makes a bit less sense as a female character that you can use power armor since you weren't in the army whereas with the male character it makes sense, he was in the army, he was trained even if its never said during the game I like to think the wife is the stronger character because she's the one running around the wasteland punching raider's heads off while acting like the commonwealth's mother/nanny. All these lovely idiot manchildren can't handle it so 1950's housewife has to come along and clean house.
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Nov 17, 2015 04:08
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2house2fly posted:I don't know that you do. "You are an adventurer, go adventure" as prelude to a fun game is probably plenty for most people. Space Traders. Nobody played them.
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Nov 17, 2015 04:22
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Here's a FO4 thing that has nothing to do with the story or bugs I feel like the enemies use an obscene amount of Molotovs in this game. It feels like every time I end up in a fight with a group of raiders or super mutants they are just chucking molotovs like candy and it's irritating as gently caress. They are extremely accurate with them too, I can't stand still and slowly strafe or anything because I'm immediately engulfed in flames, and you don't get any warning to avoid it like you do with regular grenades. I've started using only rifles and melee exclusively simply so that I'm never in that midrange spot when they start hucking firebombs.
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Nov 17, 2015 04:32
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Tiggum posted:Like I said earlier, this is a problem with basically every game with side quests. The only way to avoid it would be to not have a main storyline at all - no world in danger, no personal stakes - but then you'd have the problem of character motivation. If you don't have some big important task to perform, what are you going around putting your life in danger for? Baldur's Gate 2 dealt with this perfectly ages ago. The primary quest as soon as you leave the tutorial dungeon is to raise enough money to pay for passage to the place that's plot-relevant, for a number of different possible motivations. You then have an in-character reason to start hunting down side-quests, because you're looking to get paid, and heroic violence is your most valuable skill-set. It's shoddy writing to make a player's primary objective "go exactly here, do exactly this" in an open world game. Ideally, the player's primary goal should be something to which completing side-quests and exploring are considered part of the larger objective. If building up settlements in FO4 had anything to do with finding your son, and if your son was a better established character, it wouldn't seem so out of place.
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Nov 17, 2015 04:32
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Arrath posted:Well, you're told to go meet the agent in Balmora but IIRC (its been a while) he has you faffing around delivering memos and drugs and delving into ruins for quite a while before the whole prophecy thing starts coming up. He also tells you to go off and join guilds and do quests before coming back for more missions at least twice before continuing the main quest.
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Nov 17, 2015 04:33
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Vanguard Warden posted:Baldur's Gate 2 dealt with this perfectly ages ago. The primary quest as soon as you leave the tutorial dungeon is to raise enough money to pay for passage to the place that's plot-relevant, for a number of different possible motivations. You then have an in-character reason to start hunting down side-quests, because you're looking to get paid, and heroic violence is your most valuable skill-set. It feels like the plot should have avoided the son to focus n the institute, since they seem to be the main antagonists anyway. Maybe you're frozen, synths attack the vault and you escape. You do some asking around and hear about the institute and how no one is organised enough to resist, and this leads to reviving the minutemen ad organising the settlements, to create a nation that can fight the institute. I've not seen the whole main plot, so that might not work but it seems solid for the gameplay and broad strokes of the story I've seen so far.
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Nov 17, 2015 04:41
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Vanguard Warden posted:Baldur's Gate 2 dealt with this perfectly ages ago. The primary quest as soon as you leave the tutorial dungeon is to raise enough money to pay for passage to the place that's plot-relevant, for a number of different possible motivations. You then have an in-character reason to start hunting down side-quests, because you're looking to get paid, and heroic violence is your most valuable skill-set. New Vegas did this to an extent, too. The starting pitch of your main quest is to find out why you got wrecked for your package, after finding out what it was (or at least what it looked like) and where the guy that took it went, you've got two fairly open objectives. 1. Get to New Vegas, where both the guy that requested the job and the guy that took the chip are. By taking the long, safe route to do this, you get introduced to all the major players of the setting, a couple companions, some important locations, and a decent amount of worthwhile equipment. By the time you've reached New Vegas itself you're pretty grounded in the basics of both the setting and the game. 2. Get into the Strip. This requires you to either pay your way in, pass a skill check, get someone else to do you a favor, or (I think, at least) you can just destroy the gate guards. None of these are massive asks, but you likely won't be capable of them when you first turn up. This gives you reason to look around, be it for equipment, caps, quest progression, or just things to do to level up. I wouldn't say the absence of stuff like this necessarily drags any games down, but I do like dismantling why certain games work or don't work.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:00
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New Vegas was an unprecedented leap on video games because your character was traveling and got attacked by bandits. This isn't just a random thing that happens to every RPG character below level 3 so you're way more invested than (trigger warning) babies.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:10
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I agree the baby doesn't have enough character.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:10
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Aphrodite posted:I agree the baby doesn't have enough character. If only he wore an ugly suit in the opening cutscene and then never did anything. Also why were we railroaded into opposing Benny? DEATH TO TYRANTS. DEATH TO BETH-- wait uh. That was real clever actually.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:12
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2house2fly posted:I don't know that you do. "You are an adventurer, go adventure" as prelude to a fun game is probably plenty for most people. Well, that's basically shorthand for the wealth/fame/glory motivation, isn't it?
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Nov 17, 2015 05:15
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Danger Mahoney posted:The thing dragging FO4 down is that not a single one of the NPCs asked my pronouns before just assuming I was a woman. Lol at this game in TYOOL 2015. I'm sure you're trying to be funny but honestly, more games should just take the Saints Row route and blanket use "they" regardless. Less lines to record, easier for everyone.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:17
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Deport The Irish posted:If only he wore an ugly suit in the opening cutscene and then never did anything. You can be friendly to Benny or just never even meet him face to face.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:35
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2house2fly posted:You can be friendly to Benny or just never even meet him face to face.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:40
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You can go the whole game without ever entering his casino if you work for the NCR.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:45
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2house2fly posted:You can go the whole game without ever entering his casino if you work for the NCR. Super railroading. If you cared about RP you'd know that.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:46
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The thing dragging down Fallout 4 is that, since the response to every criticism presented in this thread is essentially "lol stop caring," I should play this game without caring about it, which is a paradigm I simply cannot comprehend.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:09
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The thing dragging down the NFL last weekend was the embarrassing robo-football players in the post-ads bumps turning into embarrassing FO4 power armor. As always, Bethesda shelled out millions for their hype machine without bothering to make their game actually loving work right at release.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:13
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:I'm sure you're trying to be funny but honestly, more games should just take the Saints Row route and blanket use "they" regardless. Less lines to record, easier for everyone.    Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The thing dragging down Fallout 4 is that, since the response to every criticism presented in this thread is essentially "lol stop caring," I should play this game without caring about it, which is a paradigm I simply cannot comprehend. It's more "stop expecting the game to be something it never claimed to be or set out to do"
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Nov 17, 2015 06:15
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Yeah, gently caress inclusivity. Just pick one of the first three you whiny brat.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:26
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Sleeveless posted:It's more "stop expecting the game to be something it never claimed to be or set out to do" They claimed a lot of things though and a good chunk of them turned out to be lies. 
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Nov 17, 2015 06:28
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Leal has a new favorite as of 22:33 on May 1, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2015 06:31
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Nuebot posted:They claimed a lot of things though and a good chunk of them turned out to be lies. Man if only there had been some indication that this would be the case, like, I don't know, literally every single one of their releases since 2003.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:37
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Fallout 4 is the game dragging this thread down. loving move on from this RP slapfight already.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:39
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HATE RP
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Nov 17, 2015 06:41
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Sleeveless posted:It's more "stop expecting the game to be something it never claimed to be or set out to do" But that ends up with me not expecting Fallout 4 to be a Fallout game and sort of accepting whatever stupid horseshit gets stapled on, all for very nebulous reasons. Why should I expect the writing to somehow regress in quality from FO3 and the PC to be weirdly and poorly defined? Just start embracing despondency, so that instead of impressing me, games can fail to disappoint me? This is somehow more desirable, making the pass/fail mark being "didn't actively make me less happy"? Why are we lowering the bar? And why is it in this thread specifically about complaining about the flaws in a game are people reacting this way? Do people go into the cosplay thread and get mad they aren't making original outfits?
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Nov 17, 2015 06:44
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2house2fly posted:HATE RP SUPPORT RP
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Nov 17, 2015 06:45
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Tiberius Thyben posted:SUPPORT RP INDIFFERENT TO RP, SUPPORT AMERICA AND APPLE PIE
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Nov 17, 2015 06:50
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Sleeveless posted:
Unfortunately this isn't viable for voiced games at the moment.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:53
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Something something joke about Received Pronunciation. Thing dragging unrelated games down, Pokemon Conquest has me interested in the Nobunaga's Ambition series but as far a I can tell, a whopping one game isn't either old and Japanese exclusive or a Chinese translation (as opposed to the Japanese original) on Steam for some reason.  And even then, that one exception appears to be partially RTS, a genre I'm absolutely useless at.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:54
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The thing dragging down Fallout 4 is that, since the response to every criticism presented in this thread is essentially "lol stop caring," I should play this game without caring about it, which is a paradigm I simply cannot comprehend. My own perspective would be, don't play the game at all.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:54
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Nuebot posted:They claimed a lot of things though and a good chunk of them turned out to be lies. It's partly that, and partly that we were expecting them to hold true to a trend of design upheld by anywhere from four to nine games previous depending on how you count it. There was no real push for this to happen, either, and we clearly hold Bethesda to a VERY different standard to others, so they didn't have to. Putting aside whether or not I agree with the choice (very no), or how I feel about the other side (uncreative philistines), it honestly strikes me as weird. This was likely a very expensive design choice to make, that wasn't necessarily called for and arguably doesn't have a place in the game they made. Meanwhile, all of the problems people actually have with Bethesda games, be they legitimate grievances or matters of opinion, are still there.More than anything else, the biggest question I'm left with is why, because none of the explanations I can think of make enough sense, except perhaps that they've become so insular that they don't really 'get' the audience's relationship with their games anymore.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:59
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Yeah that's what's so weird to me, the opening cutscene is loads of VA with this really heavy story emphasis that cant have been cheap to make (what's the budget on getting a voice actor to record 1000 names?) and it's so terrible that I'm wondering if they were shooting for terrible as some kind of 50s B-movie pastiche that's sailed over my head. I want SuperMechaGodzilla to come in here and explain how it's an absurdist masterpiece
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Nov 17, 2015 07:22
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:But that ends up with me not expecting Fallout 4 to be a Fallout game and sort of accepting whatever stupid horseshit gets stapled on, all for very nebulous reasons. Why should I expect the writing to somehow regress in quality from FO3 and the PC to be weirdly and poorly defined? Just start embracing despondency, so that instead of impressing me, games can fail to disappoint me? you can complain about whatever you want about whatever game you're playing itt, but you shouldn't be surprised at the responses. some people are really enjoying the game and can't get why others wouldn't, and some people are just passing by dropping sick burns with the most low-hanging of fruit, Lol For Caring About A Video Game. Inco posted:Fallout 4 is the game dragging this thread down. loving move on from this RP slapfight already. see i felt this same way a month ago with phantom pain. everyone just needs to get this out of their systems. next month is gonna be pages of xenoblade and just cause 3.
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