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PT6A posted:The new Merc engines do The best or nothing.™
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Nov 17, 2015 02:02
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D C posted:Have you driven a modern VW diesel? They are far from laggy. I drove a Mk.4 Golf with the 1.9L common rail TDI engine for over 12 years. It's not the most modern, but it's far closer to what VW sells now (direct injected intercooled variable geometry turbo) than it is to older naturally aspirated diesel engines. It's also got very noticeable turbo lag.
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Nov 17, 2015 02:25
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PT6A posted:The new Merc engines do, and they're zippy as gently caress. I was really surprised how fast the diesel engine could get my Dad's ML up to speed, for a fairly small engine in a fairly big SUV. Also: going from a standard to an automatic is freaky when there's that kind of power around because all of a sudden "oh, gently caress me, it just downshifted!" and you're flying. The diesel V6s haul rear end and do it with awesome mileage. too bad the vehicles they are installed in cost somewhere in the neighborhood of what, 60-100 grand?
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Nov 17, 2015 05:53
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Frank Dillinger posted:The diesel V6s haul rear end and do it with awesome mileage. too bad the vehicles they are installed in cost somewhere in the neighborhood of what, 60-100 grand? I think it was C$90K or something. Not cheap, but I really can't find any fault with it as a vehicle. Even as an SUV, it matches or beats my car for fuel efficiency, and it's really goddamn quick when you push it. I'd love to bitch at my Dad for having a useless SUV for no reason, but as it's nearly as fast as my car and has almost identical fuel economy numbers, I don't have too much of a leg to stand on. Apart from my personal disagreements with some design choices (the awful shifter stalk which was presumably forged in the fires of hell itself, and the turn signal which will flash even when you don't have it activated), I must say it's a fantastic vehicle.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:33
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Yeah even before the emissions story diesels were a hard sell for most people. You go drive the TDI then you go drive the base gas version of the same car and wow the gas engine is way peppier, you notice how much more sluggish the TDI feels immediately. And you want how much more for that engine? Yikes, no thanks. Ok it's a bit nicer and has a fancier suspension, great, but no thanks it just feels slower what colors do you have the gas version in? That's how the story usually went according to my friend who used to work at a VW dealership anyway. It was more of a status symbol thing like "hey look at me and my highway MPG" similar to hybrids for most people who ended up buying them, that's not really a driver of sales anymore for obvious reasons.
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Nov 17, 2015 21:03
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Pryor on Fire posted:Yeah even before the emissions story diesels were a hard sell for most people. You go drive the TDI then you go drive the base gas version of the same car and wow the gas engine is way peppier, you notice how much more sluggish the TDI feels immediately. And you want how much more for that engine? Yikes, no thanks. Ok it's a bit nicer and has a fancier suspension, great, but no thanks it just feels slower what colors do you ahve the gas version in? That's how the story usually went according to my friend who used to work at a VW dealership anyway. I guess if you never make it past 1500 RPM that might be the case.
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Nov 17, 2015 21:05
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fknlo posted:I guess if you never make it past 1500 RPM that might be the case. Model for model the petrol equivalent is quicker anyway
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Nov 17, 2015 21:13
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Yeah doesn't really matter the RPM, overall it's noticeably slower to accelerate. Test driving the same year/model with the two engines back to back it's pretty striking how slower diesel seems. Redline every gear up to 80mph or whatever you want to do, it doesn't matter. Then throw the GTI in the mix, go drive that after the two above and the TDI is even a more distant third. It's just a really tough sell. Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 21:20
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It's slower from a standstill, but how often do you do that when driving on public roads? There, most acceleration happens from 20+kph to maybe 150kph and speeds inbetween, and that's where the extra torque of a diesel engine comes into play. It's just a different way of driving, you don't have to downshift to pass etc. That said, I still switched from 1.3L diesel to 2.2L gasoline, and apart from the added fuel consumption, I don't regret it. Mostly because the diesel took forever and a day to warm up during the winter. Of course, ~90 extra HP and ~75 extra Nm helped sweeten the deal, too 
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Nov 17, 2015 21:51
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1337JiveTurkey posted:I drove a Mk.4 Golf with the 1.9L common rail TDI engine for over 12 years. It's not the most modern, but it's far closer to what VW sells now (direct injected intercooled variable geometry turbo) than it is to older naturally aspirated diesel engines. It's also got very noticeable turbo lag. So did I. The newer 2.0 TDIs are a big improvement over the old ones.
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Nov 17, 2015 23:11
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Motortrend gave camaro car of the year. Not one single mention about the interior sight lights being bad? http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-chevrolet-camaro-is-the-motor-trend-car-of-the-year/ The gently caress? Is it not a problem anymore? I better not get in one to test drive and immediately feel like im driving in a coffin with windows edit: 2014 was cadillac CTS. I guess car of the year is just their time to highlight a car that isnt immediately seen as good through various criteria that doesnt make sense ("advancement of design" in camaros case) coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 23:13
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coolskillrex remix posted:Motortrend gave camaro car of the year. Not one single mention about the interior sight lights being bad? That's every car now though. High beltlines and poo poo exterior visibility come standard. Putting your elbow out the window is an exercise in 90* shoulder action these days. It's goddamned uncomfortable. I may just have to settle for buying 25yo Japanese imports for the rest of my adult life.
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Nov 17, 2015 23:35
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MotorTrend likes a GM product??????
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Nov 18, 2015 00:22
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Buhbuhj posted:MotorTrend likes a GM product?????? This is not a joke. Motor trend has had full page chevy ad on their front page all this week. Read this url, and then click it, and then be AMAAAAAAAZED. http://www.motortrend.com/wp-content/themes/motor-trend/images/sponsor-background.jpg They had the ad ready to be updated the second they were announced as winners. edit: 
Powershift fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 01:26
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fknlo posted:I guess if you never make it past 1500 RPM that might be the case. Yeah it's cool for a while above 1500 RPM, right until you reach 1600 RPM and and then it doesn't do anything besides producing noise.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:28
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coolskillrex remix posted:The gently caress? Is it not a problem anymore? I better not get in one to test drive and immediately feel like im driving in a coffin with windows Car and Driver said it was just as bad as the last Camaro.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:00
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Powershift posted:This is not a joke. Motor trend has had full page chevy ad on their front page all this week. Do you really think MT wouldn't tell the manufacturer their car won until the issue reaches magazine shelves / the article hits the website? And that the manufacturer wouldn't immediately get an ad campaign ready to highlight their win? To leap to the "they paid to win the award" conclusion is awfully cynical - unjustifiably so, IMO. E: and yes, visibility in the 5th-gen Camaro was abysmal. That didn't seem to stop a ton of people from buying it though, so obviously they feel retaining the retro styling is more important. GokieKS fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 02:40
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D C posted:So did I. The newer 2.0 TDIs are a big improvement over the old ones. Right, but turbochargers have an inherent lag to them as the turbo catches up to the requested power level. Even without that ECUs still introduce some level of throttle response delay (or fuel injection in this case) to improve emissions.* Electric motors don't have that limitation and can respond more or less instantly. So a hybrid can still take its sweet time with the engine but fill in the gap with the motors and that's what I like because it's seamless. *Usually. If I were a VW engineer planning on doing something that would make me the target of CARB Death Squads, I wouldn't half rear end it.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:58
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I thought that every single automotive award was bought and sold. And I thought everyone knew this.
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Nov 18, 2015 03:00
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1337JiveTurkey posted:Right, but turbochargers have an inherent lag to them as the turbo catches up to the requested power level. Even without that ECUs still introduce some level of throttle response delay (or fuel injection in this case) to improve emissions.* There is definitely something about small diesels that causes me to notice the lag a lot more - the petrol models are all turbos too now and they're all more pleasant to drive to me.
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Nov 18, 2015 03:03
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I've always been under the impression that it was an open secret that manufacturers gamed EPA testing to a certain degree through things like heating up the catalytic converter as quickly as possible, special startup procedures, etc. I'm most curious to see how any changes in testing will affect more "mild" versions of cheating.
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Nov 18, 2015 03:18
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GokieKS posted:E: and yes, visibility in the 5th-gen Camaro was abysmal. That didn't seem to stop a ton of people from buying it though, so obviously they feel retaining the retro styling is more important. Retro styling? Hell, name me a modern sports coupe with usable windows.
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Nov 18, 2015 05:00
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I'm pretty sure VW is muleing a new Beetle GSR with a DSG. I ran across a manufacturer plated new Beetle today with no badging at a stoplight tonight - by 60 he was about a car length back from a tune box + dp 6spd MK7 GTI.
BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 05:10
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Mange Mite posted:Retro styling? Hell, name me a modern sports coupe with usable windows. 4 series, Lexus RC, Genesis coupe, whatever the G37 is called now? They're not like an 80s Prelude but they aren't nearly as bunker-like as a Camaro (assuming the new one isn't better than the old shape)
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Nov 18, 2015 05:18
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KozmoNaut posted:It's slower from a standstill, but how often do you do that when driving on public roads? There, most acceleration happens from 20+kph to maybe 150kph and speeds inbetween, and that's where the extra torque of a diesel engine comes into play. It's just a different way of driving, you don't have to downshift to pass etc. You have it backwards, due to gearing, from a roll, all that matters for acceleration is horsepower. After 30mph, your engine should be in its powerband until you lift off throttle, negating any torque advantages. The 2.0L TDI only has 140hp, so it's only ever going to give you that much. There is no way around this fact. The review of various Jettas makes this point pretty clear, the 2.5L Jetta is slower than the TDI to 30 by a good margin, to 60 by a small margin, but is faster to 100 by a hefty margin. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-6 pre:Jetta 2.5 SEL GLI Hybrid SEL TDI SEL 0–30 MPH 2.9 sec 2.4 sec 2.9 sec 2.7 sec 0–60 MPH 8.9 sec 6.4 sec 7.9 sec 8.4 sec 0–100 MPH 25.0 sec 16.8 sec 22.2 sec 26.7 sec 0–110 MPH 34.3 sec 21.0 sec 29.7 sec 37.9 sec ¼-Mile @ MPH 16.7@84 15.1 @ 95 16.2 @ 87 16.5 @ 83 oRenj9 fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 05:25
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Q_res posted:Car and Driver said it was just as bad as the last Camaro. At best, the reviews I've seen have said the A-pillar is a little better, and the hood a little lower, but they still put a big-rear end binnacle over the instruments that negates any improvement from lowering the hood height. Your over the shoulder and rear sight-lines are still miserable. I hate the stupid high belt lines. Driving with an arm out the window on a nice day is one of the great pleasures of a nice highway cruise.
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Nov 18, 2015 05:53
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Mange Mite posted:Retro styling? Hell, name me a modern sports coupe with usable windows.
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Nov 18, 2015 06:03
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Here's the Fiat Spyder Miata thing: http://jalopnik.com/2017-fiat-124-spider-this-is-it-all-official-and-stuf-1743199857 
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Nov 18, 2015 06:41
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blk posted:Here's the Fiat Spyder Miata thing: Needs 2 more lights on front, spiders are supposed to have 8 eyes, not 6.
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Nov 18, 2015 06:45
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blk posted:Here's the Fiat Spyder Miata thing: Buying this without question.
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Nov 18, 2015 06:46
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holy poo poo. Ignoring the fact that it looks way too much like a jaaaaaaaag. the 2017 lincoln MKZ, which is based on the fusion, is going to have a 400hp, 400ft/lb 3.0 ecoboost V6 with a "driver's pack" which gives it the rear diff out of the focus RS. Imagine it 200lbs lighter as a fusion RS. ed: https://media.lincoln.com/content/lincolnmedia/lna/us/en/2017-lincoln-mkz.html quote:3.0-liter GTDI V6 engine in front-wheel drive models is limited to 350 horsepower and 400 lb.-ft. of torque Hah. That's going to be awesome at destroying tires. Powershift fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 06:54
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It's very dodge looking E: the 124
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Nov 18, 2015 06:56
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blk posted:Here's the Fiat Spyder Miata thing: drat, if the motor is the same as the 500 Abarth, then maybe it will have a similar exhaust and sound as mean, too. I... might actually want to buy a Fiat. Admittedly I like the front end of the Mazda, but the hood and rear end of the Fiat. I do worry about longer term reliability of the Fiat motor over the Mazda, though. Guinness fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 07:20
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I think the 1.4 is pretty proven. I know I drive the ever loving poo poo out of my abarth when I take it out, and it's tuned to over 200hp.
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Nov 18, 2015 07:24
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Powershift posted:holy poo poo. Where does the 200lb weight loss of the Fusion RS come from? And is this 3.0EB based off the 2.7EB or the 3.5EB?
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Nov 18, 2015 07:36
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eyebeem posted:I think the 1.4 is pretty proven. How easy is it to crank it up to 200hp? Because a 200hp Miata for cheap/easy is 
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Nov 18, 2015 07:37
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It's nice to see that Lincoln is finally abandoning the baleen whale look.
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Nov 18, 2015 07:45
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ilkhan posted:Ok, that looks good. Based on the 2.7 An AWD 2.0 fusion titanium is 3743lbs. An AWD 2.0 MKZ is 3906lbs. Luxury stuff has weight. It's creeping up on M3 numbers, which is 425hp/406ftlbs.
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Nov 18, 2015 07:46
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:It's very dodge looking Yeah very Darty
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Nov 18, 2015 08:16
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Maybe Fiat will put out a fixed roof version.
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