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HootTheOwl posted:So serious question about the refugees: I know that the opposition to relocating them in America (amongst other places) is just racist shitheels but would it be politically expedient to create better conditions in current refugee tent-cities, leaving them in a position to re-settle their homes after the conflict? Another problem is that for many of the people in the refugee camps there's basically nothing to return to. A shitton of the buildings in Syria's cities are destroyed at this point, or are damaged enough to be unstable and dangerous as hell. Even in Kobani where most of the city's population has returned, people are still living in tents pitched in the rubble or in half-destroyed buildings while the slow reconstruction of the city happens. Just because the fighting stops doesn't mean life can just go back to what it was before. fade5 fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 01:01
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Interesting article on how the Republicans' anti-refugee position is causing a backlash in its own evangelical base:quote:A push by Republican presidential candidates to ban Syrian refugees "does not reflect what we've been hearing from our constituencies, which are evangelical churches across the country," said Jenny Yang, vice president for advocacy at World Relief, an evangelical organization that helps resettle refugees. "Most of the people have been saying we want to continue to work with refugees, that what happened in Paris ... doesn’t reflect who refugees are."
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Nov 18, 2015 01:03
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Thump! posted:lol Eh at least the B-52 can double as a heavy non-nuclear bomber.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:05
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If you want to become even angrier at the world, here's the story about a Charleston restauranteur who "employed" black slaves whom he basically kept chained up in his house and beat regularly.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:11
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Joementum posted:Somewhere on the island of Capri, at the bottom of a bottle of Limoncello, lies a piece of paper that begins, "The Proof that Hillary Did It". Lynn Westmoreland will find that paper. I thought it was sitting in a #2 mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnall's porch since noon today. 
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Nov 18, 2015 01:11
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missed this earlier, turkey's vast number of stray cats impacts the g20  http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...tm_content=2043
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Nov 18, 2015 01:18
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Edminster posted:And Jindal is out of the race. Good riddance to the apostate.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:19
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As an example of why coming back and restarting life is so hard in a place like Syria: kids are going back to school in Kobani. You may be wondering how the town got the schools reconstructed.   They didn't. They're using whatever buildings are still standing. Some of those building are still damaged from the fighting but oh well, there's no alternative. There's no power and no electricity in the buildings, and running water is only available in certain parts of the city. This is an example of a good outcome, because even though Kobani is hosed up, it's still generally peaceful. Most of the rest of Syria is not. Even if Syria would come to some sort of ceasefire, so much of it is destroyed with no facilities like electricity, gas, running water, or even usable roads that rebuilding will take billions of dollars of infrastructure investment (which isn't going to happen). This is why so many people are leaving, they don't see a future for them or their children or grandchildren, all they see is death in the short term and struggle in the long term. fade5 fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 01:20
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Luigi Thirty posted:If you want to become even angrier at the world, here's the story about a Charleston restauranteur who "employed" black slaves whom he basically kept chained up in his house and beat regularly. That's next to Myrtle Beach though. Myrtle Beach is awful in all sorts of ways.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:23
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TheQat posted:missed this earlier, turkey's vast number of stray cats impacts the g20
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Nov 18, 2015 01:32
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Mitt Romney posted:Was Jindal the candidate that PredictIt used prematurely as the first drop out of the race in September? I can't find the information on Google. Yes. They implemented a 'drop out period' where the candidate in question has to remain out of the race after that drama storm. It was hilarious. Especially because no one even noticed that he'd dropped out the first time until 3 days later.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:33
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Boon posted:Detectability, for one. Redundancy, for two. I get that MAD exists, I just don't see why we need to even waste money on having bomber-delivered nuclear weapons. No one has the capability to stop an ICBM strike if we decided to end the world in fire, so what is even the point? Raskolnikov38 posted:Eh at least the B-52 can double as a heavy non-nuclear bomber. I suppose, but even then, when's the last time we've needed to carpet bomb anybody? We haven't done that since Vietnam, have we? I mean, I'm hoping we don't carpet bomb Raqqa or Palmyra, but I guess there is a slim chance we get a Republican president next year. Edit: Sorry if this is getting too Cold War Techie/Off-topic, I just figured US Nuclear policy would fit though 
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Nov 18, 2015 01:38
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This is a really interesting story.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:45
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fade5 posted:As an example of why coming back and restarting life is so hard in a place like Syria: kids are going back to school in Kobani. You may be wondering how the town got the schools reconstructed. Maybe I don't understand the costs, but compared to the amount we're spending on backround checks and relocations is it really that much more to secure loans to rebuild? You said in the last post it was a lack of funds but surly an international effort could afford it compared to their current plans? It's cheaper to patch up a school than move it's occupants somewhere in the US/EU whatever?
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Nov 18, 2015 01:52
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HootTheOwl posted:Maybe I don't understand the costs, but compared to the amount we're spending on backround checks and relocations is it really that much more to secure loans to rebuild? You said in the last post it was a lack of funds but surly an international effort could afford it compared to their current plans? It's cheaper to patch up a school than move it's occupants somewhere in the US/EU whatever? You run into the same problem agencies have with securing funds to rebuild Gaza: why bother if it's going to be bombed again soon anyway? 
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Nov 18, 2015 01:54
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Mitt Romney posted:Kerry just hosed up well thats kerry for you. always putting his feet in his mouth. unfortunatyly i have heard that kind of poo poo before on twitter, but for real, acting like charlie hebdo deserved it because some people on the left are too loving stupid to understand dark satire in a leftist magazine because no one can have hurt feeling ever.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:59
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Dapper_Swindler posted:well thats kerry for you. always putting his feet in his mouth. unfortunatyly i have heard that kind of poo poo before on twitter, but for real, acting like charlie hebdo deserved it because some people on the left are too loving stupid to understand dark satire in a leftist magazine because no one can have hurt feeling ever. It's already been said in this thread but to play devil's advocate: It seems like what Kerry was TRYING to say, was that with Charlie Hebdo you could at least see WHY the gunmen were angry. They had a reason founded on specific events. With attacks like Paris (or 9/11 or any other large scale attacks simply for terror's sake) the "reasons" are far more nebulous and intractable.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:04
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Absurd Alhazred posted:You run into the same problem agencies have with securing funds to rebuild Gaza: why bother if it's going to be bombed again soon anyway?  "why are we sending money to them turrist Muslims" and also the callous line "by helping [Gaza/Syria/Afghanistan] rebuild you're helping [Hamas/Assad/Al Nusra/the Taliban] rebuild and get stronger". The Kurds are sort of an exception because they're "the good guys" to the west, but even so Kobani hasn't received all that much outside help to rebuild.Thump! posted:I suppose, but even then, when's the last time we've needed to carpet bomb anybody? We haven't done that since Vietnam, have we? http://www.wired.com/2011/07/two-bombers-24-hours-100-libyan-targets-destroyed-ready/ We probably didn't need to use the B-52 specifically, but it's not like the US is ever going to get in a war against an opponent who can actually shoot back. fade5 fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 02:05
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Pook Good Mook posted:It's already been said in this thread but to play devil's advocate: Actually ISIS' reasons are plainly stated and the attack in Paris obviously supports their objective. There is no justification for Kerry's remarks, and your interpretation is just as callous and ignorant.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:08
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Oregon Governor Kate Brown posted:The words on the Statue of Liberty apply in Oregon just as they do in every other state. Clearly, Oregon will continue to accept refugees - they bring their hopes and dreams to America, and we will continue to welcome them and open the doors of opportunity. For those of you keeping track
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Nov 18, 2015 02:10
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smg77 posted:For those of you keeping track It would be nice if Oregon put their money where their mouth is and tried to actually bring some people of color into their lily white hipster paradise.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:11
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How are u posted:It would be nice if Oregon put their money where their mouth is and tried to actually bring some people of color into their lily white hipster paradise. Good on Kate Brown, but this is painfully true.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:12
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fade5 posted:There's also the the good old Those are B-1s.  But yeah, I get the idea behind it there, and it applies to B-52s as well. Thanks, that makes sense.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:14
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I'm glad that the two states I've called home, Pennsylvania and Virginia, have done the right thing 
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Nov 18, 2015 02:14
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How are u posted:It would be nice if Oregon put their money where their mouth is and tried to actually bring some people of color into their lily white hipster paradise. Considering how fast housing prices and rent are skyrocketing in the Portland metro area it's not likely.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:17
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Jealous Cow posted:Actually ISIS' reasons are plainly stated and the attack in Paris obviously supports their objective. There is no justification for Kerry's remarks, and your interpretation is just as callous and ignorant. Yep, I totally agreed with Kerry's viewpoint. Also, the source you gave gives as reason for the attacks on the west as "ending coexistence" to induce Muslims to leave the west and return to the Islamic State. Do you see how that's a bit different and more nebulous than "they published a cartoon of the prophet / they blasphemed?"
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Nov 18, 2015 02:24
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How are u posted:It would be nice if Oregon put their money where their mouth is and tried to actually bring some people of color into their lily white hipster paradise. They do, Portland actually resettles quite a few refugees, and I'd recommend anyone interested in helping them out look into IRCO or one of the other organizations. It's just that the U.S. as a whole only will resettle ~75,000 refugees this year, so Portland's share is a drop in the bucket compared to its growth due to internal migration.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:25
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Jealous Cow posted:Good on Kate Brown, but this is painfully true. Ya, Oregon should really bus in some minorities against their will. I'm pro-accepting more refugees but outside of putting your city forward as a haven a state doesn't have much control over where the Federal government sends groups.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:25
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Pook Good Mook posted:Yep, I totally agreed with Kerry's viewpoint. The cause and effect chain has a few more links, but if anyone should understand this it's the Secretary of State.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:27
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Jealous Cow posted:Actually ISIS' reasons are plainly stated and the attack in Paris obviously supports their objective. There is no justification for Kerry's remarks, and your interpretation is just as callous and ignorant. Agreed, if you can find a way to justify CH why not the Paris attacks? Both are completely indefensible. Pook Good Mook posted:Also, the source you gave gives as reason for the attacks on the west as "ending coexistence" to induce Muslims to leave the west and return to the Islamic State. Do you see how that's a bit different and more nebulous than "they published a cartoon of the prophet / they blasphemed?" No not really? Kerry just plain hosed up, there's no justification of murdering someone because you don't like free speech. Killing someone because they drew a loving picture should be just as incomprehensible to you as anything that just happened. The real question is what on earth compelled him to even go that route in the first place. Just dumb dumb dumb. tsa fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 02:31
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tsa posted:Agreed, if you can find a way to justify CH why not the Paris attacks? Both are completely indefensible. he probably just heard dumb asses on twitter/tumblr/blogsphere getting mad and "offended" at people saying Je suis Charlie and assumed those shitheads were mainstream thought. or he just hosed up in speaking.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:36
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tsa posted:Agreed, if you can find a way to justify CH why not the Paris attacks? Both are completely indefensible. Sounds like victim blaming, honestly. Along the "she shouldn't have been wearing that" line of thinking.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:37
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Jealous Cow posted:Sounds like victim blaming, honestly. Along the "she shouldn't have been wearing that" line of thinking. Oh my God. He wasn't blaming Charlie Hebdo, he was simply saying how the reasons are more coherent and we can understand them, if not condone them. Honestly, point me to the language where he's saying it was a good thing that happened or how they deserved it. If I'm at a bar and I say "Gee, that football team sucks" and a fan of that team punches me in the face you don't say I "deserved it" but you understand why it happened. Again, I'm not saying it was the most politically astute thing to say, but he's not wrong.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:40
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tsa posted:Agreed, if you can find a way to justify CH why not the Paris attacks? Both are completely indefensible. You're stunted somehow if you can't distinguish against an attack against a proud symbol of free speech and an indiscriminate attack against random people across a city. Kerry just made the messaging mistake of stating that in the form of a comparative sentence, which plays poorly among a certain stunted audience. edit: also as much as you might try to doublethink it away. People justify attacks against free speech and murder all the loving time. People can justify it, we just find those justifications morally abhorrent. But to pretend that their doesn't exist a twisted logic weakens us against our adversaries.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:45
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Pook Good Mook posted:Oh my God. He wasn't blaming Charlie Hebdo, he was simply saying how the reasons are more coherent and we can understand them, if not condone them. I understand the point you're trying to make, it was just a stupid thing for Kerry to say and is either a lack of understanding of ISIS or Kerry bring a bafoon.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:45
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Trabisnikof posted:You're stunted somehow if you can't distinguish against an attack against a proud symbol of free speech and an indiscriminate attack against random people across a city. The targeting was indiscriminate, the motivation is easily tied back to ISIS' objectives. Just as the CH attacks were clearly tied back to an objective to punish blasphemy in the eyes of the attackers. Just because the victims were random doesn't mean the attack itself was.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:47
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Seriously, this whole "literally unthinkable" poo poo with ISIS is the commies all over again.Jealous Cow posted:The targeting was indiscriminate, the motivation is easily tied back to ISIS' objectives. Just as the CH attacks were clearly tied back to an objective to punish blasphemy in the eyes of the attackers. But that's the point he was making. Because the victims were random not symbolic one can't trace a line of anger/hate/fear from the attacker to the victim. There can be no moment of "would I bomb the Völkischer Beobachter" reflection, that can make sense of a twisted world. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 02:48
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People conflate understanding with empathy.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:50
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Mr. Wookums posted:omg is that cat thing with the cucumber at the bottom of the article real? Also did you know there is no "q" in cucumber? I imagine that the cat freakout thing is the cat brain registering the appearance of a cucumber next to them as a snake. The cats don't register their owners placing the cucumbers near them because they're so used to the humans of the house moving around. Then they turn around and suddenly there's a long, cylindrical thing they don't recognize being near them, which they register as "OMFG! SNAKE!", and well the felines that were hard-coded to jump first and then figure out if there really was a threat later were more likely to pass on their genes than the ones that didn't freak out and then got bitten by a real snake.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:54
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DaveWoo posted:Interesting article on how the Republicans' anti-refugee position is causing a backlash in its own evangelical base: I mentioned this conflict in the thread about the attacks, so it's good to see a link about it for real. Basically one of the biggest forces working in refugee advocacy and resettlement are religious organizations, usually either actual churches or associated NGOs, so when lovely governors start to come down on those people and the groups supporting them, what it actually means is that they're punching out at a bunch of churches and dedicated Christian advocates in their home turf, which isn't really a winner for them.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:55
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