|
TI Report. They bailed after about 2 hours of constant rules fumbles and frustration. The highlight was a guy right at the start going "This looks fun!" as the person who bought it read the rules verbatim.
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 16:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 00:36 |
|
|
Andarel posted:The absolute picture of simplicity and clarity. But mostly that's just Brink of War being silly... I hate to be "that guy", but those aren't difficult to parse at all. Read the description once, and you'll get it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 16:12
|
|
|
taser rates posted:I like to do one of the advanced training missions that's everything but internal threats, then jump into full missions after that. Putting that aside though, a lot of the fun for me is being able to run higher difficulty threats in Space Alert/more complex cases in Trag Looper, which you can't really do with new players.  ). I do hope to do reds one day though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 16:17
|
|
|
I think actually the Nuclear Device is one of my favourite Space Alert threat. It's a speed 4, 1 hitpoint internal threat. It's X action is +1 speed, Y action +1 aaaaand the Z action (ie the last one) just outright destroys the ship, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. So if it is only one hit point, it should be easy, right? Well, in order to diffuse it, you actually need 3 people to hit the C button in the same location, all at the same time 
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 16:23
|
|
|
Tekopo posted:I've never ever run the training scenario for Space Alert in the years I've been teaching it. Into the deep end you go... Generally I start each time with "Okay so there's a training mission for this, but gently caress it I'll show you everything except internal threats to start". Means a lot more rule talk and craziness to start with, but that's fine with my group.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 16:24
|
|
|
Oldstench posted:I hate to be "that guy", but those aren't difficult to parse at all. Read the description once, and you'll get it. I've played more games of Race than anyone else I know, there's a reason they put text on the card when the iconography is unintuitive - I don't know anyone who could parse those cards without knowing the exact rulebook offhand. Terraforming Engineers trips up lots of people, as it's a strange card - and Rebel Freedom Fighters is weird because it is one of the only cards with both a positive and a negative ability of the same type (+ and - military). Brink of War cards tend to be notably more complex than any of the other expansions (most of TGS' complexity comes from rules interactions and fumbles with Improved Logistics, Rebels vs Imperium has the weirdness that surrounds takeover but nothing else crazy) with a noticeably higher average complexity on top of both turn-by-turn Prestige tracking and the Prestige card - plus cards that care about specific combinations (Rebel Development is not a phrase you hear often). Alien Artifacts and Xeno Invasion are both very straightforward, at least compared to BoW.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 16:30
|
|
|
Valley of Kings is pretty sweet for such a tiny game. I hear the expansion is even better. I would be happy with less player fuckage cards though. If I get expansion I can see making a custom deck.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 16:31
|
|
|
Tekopo posted:I think actually the Nuclear Device is one of my favourite Space Alert threat. Ha, have you looked at the expansion threats yet? They turned that into a general mechanic called accessibility, which is basically shields for internal threats. TNF is so good.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 16:35
|
|
|
Yeah, I've seen accessibility, but there's something to be said about the finality of the Nuclear Device, and the way that it speeds up as well. It really feels cinematic to coordinate everyone and diffuse the thing. Until someone gets delayed because they went down the lift at the same time as another guy, that is 
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 16:42
|
|
|
I think there was some GDC talk by the dude that designed Space Trading Company that basically nailed what makes Race for the Galaxy's cards so good. They are a language that the player can learn and apply to other cards. Where barring special complex cards, learning to read one card will allow you to parse others with ease. Like Rebel Freedom Fighters, a Rebel World is the circle with a red outline so a red Diamond is a Rebel Development.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 16:45
|
|
|
Tekopo posted:Yeah, I've seen accessibility, but there's something to be said about the finality of the Nuclear Device, and the way that it speeds up as well. It really feels cinematic to coordinate everyone and diffuse the thing. Until someone gets delayed because they went down the lift at the same time as another guy, that is Definitely. IIRC, that card in general showcases how tight Space Alert's design in general is too, in that it's guaranteed on any trajectory to go off in 3 turns, no more no less, and 3 turns is exactly enough time for any player to get from any location to the reactor room and hit the button.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 16:50
|
|
|
I taught the old mom Race and the iconography didn't bother her too much but she's also a Dominion loving pro
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:05
|
|
|
Basically. The reason Race's iconography is so good is that they've managed to fit a ton of information density into very straightforward cards, while making it much more consistent than most other iconographic games. It's not just the icons, it's the scope being very simple. If you know how Investment Credits works (which you can see is the same as the Develop phase bonus) you can easily figure out how Galactic Federation works with minimal effort. If you figure out Alpha Centauri, it's not a big logical leap to Galactic Resort or New Earth or Expedition Force. Everything is tightly interwoven, largely because the game's design gives cards lots of variations on relatively few (12-13 or so) effects, plus a couple of 1-offs or conditional bonuses(Deficit Spending, Trade League, Mining Conglomerate). As the game expanded, effects got more and more individualized. There's nothing really comparable to Imperium Planet Buster's ability to destroy enemy planets or Terraforming Engineers's very specific Colony-Ship-Style upgrade. It doesn't help that same kind is unclear on the card and needs to be clarified in the rulebook (Windfall? Production? Blue? Rebel? Prestige? This are all things that could be a kind of world). It's not a major logical leap, but things caring about Rebel Developments tripped up a lot of people because they aren't mentioned at all until BoW (Rebel Freedom Fighters and Rebel Council both care but one might think there would be a note on, say, Rebel Alliance). Alien Artifacts and Xeno Invasion both do a very good job of avoiding that issue (there's some weirdness with Wormhole Prospectors but that card is just weird in general).
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:06
|
|
|
Selecta84 posted:Played Voyages of Marco Polo with 4 Players yesterday. Still a great game, everyone really really liked it. I played it for the first time on Monday; the Mercator player ended up dead last (but I believe it was because he was focusing so much on contracts that he practically ignored the map). Marco Polo came in first by absolutely dominating the map, supplemented with his free contract a turn. I came in second with the guy who lets you choose your dice values; in hindsight I probably should have focused more on getting camels and using them to grab every black die I could, in order to maximize my character ability.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:06
|
|
|
Beat Mercator by going to the market later in turn order when he has less dice available to take advantage of those resources, by taking high-value contracts you think you can complete to deny him them, and by beating him to spaces on the board that give money because he still needs income and to do that he needs to spend money on travel. Specifically, he gets a decent amount of income from his passive ability but in order to leverage that he'll be focusing on contracts generally - if you can make him pay coins to take contracts, it's a significant hindrance.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:08
|
|
|
Thanks
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:14
|
|
|
Received my copy of Orleans Deluxe last night, looking forward to finally trying it out after so long. There's a ridiculous amount of stuff in that box and all really nice quality, it's the size of the Fields of Arle box and is packed completely to the brim. Taking forever to sticker all the workers but it's looking really good.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:22
|
|
|
PRADA SLUT posted:I agree, we should only use original themes for board games. uh the brown cube is a coalition troop, duh
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:25
|
|
|
General counter-strategies to non-Mercator characters: Berke Khan: Hard to counter in general, very reliable ability. He's somewhat, the most luck-based character in the game, so pushing him out of the Khan's Favor track can stop him from getting camels to turn into black dice if he does roll badly. Those 1s will still turn into $5 so he's not really money-starved, but if you can stop him from getting easy access to black dice (compete on board for camel generators, take black die contracts, etc.) it can slow him down. Kubilai Khan: He's generally going to rush to either Sumatra or take a pit stop in Xian and then head to Sumatra. There's not much anyone can do about that, but Caprini can get to Sumatra almost as fast. Denying Kubilai Khan money can make him spend a lot of actions on getting the funds for that initial trip (since he needs camels and it's 1 to Xian + 3 to Sumatra), then playing around early Sumatra cards being available will help limit his snowball. If he doesn't get a decent lead from the better starting position his lack of income makes things tricky, and if other people can easily hit Beijing (Caprini, Niccolo + Marco Polo) his point lead is less of an issue. Matteo Polo: Hard to stop in general, try and limit easy access to camels + resources because he can fulfill contracts crazy fast if he gets good draws and strong income. Try not to let him pick up all the bonuses on the way to the 2-good income tile, and look at what resources he's hoarding to see if you can stop him from chaining contracts as easily. If he takes contracts that give him camels, focus on stopping him from getting Gold as best you can in order to slow him down. Wilhelm von Rubruk: Awkward early game, so definitely don't let him get money and then travel without paying for placing dice. If he gets a strong start he can take over the game, particularly if he has uncontested access to money-generating city cards and can place his dice to get camels. Try and make him pay early game before he gets his engine going, and accept that he's going to be moving less often than most people so make him pay for every travel he takes in order to offset the savings (since he wants to place high dice there). Niccolo and Marco Polo: Also hard to stop, since they can just take whatever routes, but don't let them pick up bonuses along both routes. As usual, limit their access to money (free camels aren't amazing but they do help early game) and it'll force them to spend more actions on traveling and less on leveraging those cards/income. Raschid ad-Din Sinan: Take camels early against him, because if not he'll always place a die on there for 6 camels because 2 black dice is crazy good for him. He's probably going to go contract- or city-card-scoring heavy so denying him camels should hurt him on both. Other than that, his biggest strength is in the marketplace so be a little freer with dice there and it'll cost him in gold. Johannes Caprini: 3 coins is an amazing income at the start of the game, and Caprini can dash around getting whatever he needs. He'll probably make it to Sumatra first so be careful - if he delays to pop through Beijing he's got less time but more VP, if not he's going to have a lot of flexibility using the Sumatra cards for bonuses until someone else gets there to contest him. Once someone else is there he has to risk the cards being taken, though he's probably out gathering more income. Make sure he's not getting lots of reliable money because he's expensive to get rolling even with that income, but other than that you need to just try and push him out of whatever he's not getting from city tiles so that he struggles to complete contracts with that income. Assume he's getting a ton (25+) of points from his tickets at the end of the game and try to deny him camels if possible.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:25
|
|
|
Andarel posted:I've played more games of Race than anyone else I know, there's a reason they put text on the card when the iconography is unintuitive - I don't know anyone who could parse those cards without knowing the exact rulebook offhand. Terraforming Engineers trips up lots of people, as it's a strange card - and Rebel Freedom Fighters is weird because it is one of the only cards with both a positive and a negative ability of the same type (+ and - military). Brink of War cards tend to be notably more complex than any of the other expansions (most of TGS' complexity comes from rules interactions and fumbles with Improved Logistics, Rebels vs Imperium has the weirdness that surrounds takeover but nothing else crazy) with a noticeably higher average complexity on top of both turn-by-turn Prestige tracking and the Prestige card - plus cards that care about specific combinations (Rebel Development is not a phrase you hear often). Alien Artifacts and Xeno Invasion are both very straightforward, at least compared to BoW. Those cards might be complex compared to the rest of Race for the Galaxy, but they are nowhere near as screwy as cards get from games that use primarily text. For example: 
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:38
|
|
|
Andarel posted:stop him from getting camels... he needs camels... limit easy access to camels... free camels...Take camels early against him... try to deny him camels if possible See this is something new players get wrong all the time - those are not actually your camels you're racing. You're not trying to win the race, you're trying to end with the most money. And the characters are all the same, they just have different pictures so you can tell who bet what.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:41
|
|
|
Andarel posted:Raschid ad-Din Sinan: Take camels early against him, because if not he'll always place a die on there for 6 camels because 2 black dice is crazy good for him. He's probably going to go contract- or city-card-scoring heavy so denying him camels should hurt him on both. Other than that, his biggest strength is in the marketplace so be a little freer with dice there and it'll cost him in gold. Ah, good to know that my post-game analysis was on the right track. Good effort-post all around. I can't tell from your write-up if Kubilai or Caprini is the guy you can jump around the map via the camps; the guy teaching the game played that character and came in 3rd. He told us that he's never seen that character do very well, and wasn't sure how to make him work. Any advice I could give him?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:42
|
|
|
Kubilai Khan starts in Beijing. Johannes Caprini is the teleporter. Fair warning, Caprini is tricky. He's going to be very board-reliant: he's best when the board can't sustain early money in the west (and you generally don't want both Kubilai Khan and him in the game), because the income tile is in Xian or generally east and the best money-providing city is Sumatra. If you pick him, Ashgar and Kochi had better be terrible because jumping to Xian to do your best Kubilai Khan impression is really powerful. Caprini is going to be moving a lot, but he wants to move in short, tactical bursts: to Xian or another income spot, to Sumatra, to his tickets. Since he has a lot more gold and the ability to craft his income however he wants, focus on high-scoring tickets (you'll complete them, his ability is extremely good at that, and preferably they involve Anxi/Adana/Sumatra/possibly Karachi/Beijing on one end.) and focus your actions on turning those city cards into contracts. The name of the game for him is efficiency, and you can pretty easily do a path like Venice > M(3) Anxi > M(1) Beijing with a contract or some other ability (black dice for $4?) > M(2) Sumatra by the end of turn 2 to grab your initial board position. If Sumatra can give you something related to income and/or camels you can immediately hit up the 4 camels to leave sumatra and head somewhere else (Karachi? Adana? Ormuz?) and grab a strong early start, then focus on contracts and some token effort into routes for the rest of the game. You should be winning the Eastern race for bonuses if you decide to go that way, so pay attention to what bonuses are on cities (but you don't care as much as, say, Marco Polo or Wilhelm von Rubruck). jmzero posted:See this is something new players get wrong all the time - those are not actually your camels you're racing. You're not trying to win the race, you're trying to end with the most money. And the characters are all the same, they just have different pictures so you can tell who bet what. I mean, it's kinda redundant but the contractmongers need camels and preventing them from grabbing 'em will slow them down a lot even if it doesn't help you as much as you really want it to. Andarel fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Nov 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 17:56
|
|
|
Tekopo posted:I've never ever run the training scenario for Space Alert in the years I've been teaching it. Into the deep end you go... Can you elaborate? I have 3 people that want to learn, but each time I think about teaching it I think of the training booklet and go "let's play Kemet instead."
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:Those cards might be complex compared to the rest of Race for the Galaxy, but they are nowhere near as screwy as cards get from games that use primarily text. For example: If "better than early MtG templating" is the standard we're aiming for, you'll have some trouble hitting modern game companies that fail that particular litmus test. It's noticeable in RftG because it's a significant departure from what made their early design so good, and while it works gameplay-wise it takes a hit in terms of brainspace.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 18:18
|
|
|
I just teach them the rules to everything, straight off, including most of the times internal threats as well. I dunno, maybe I am used to teaching more difficult games but Space Alert isn't too bad: you explain how each location/button does, how to play cards and a brief overview of how threats work and what the different section of the tape work and you are good to go.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 18:20
|
|
|
jmzero posted:See this is something new players get wrong all the time - those are not actually your camels you're racing. You're not trying to win the race, you're trying to end with the most money. And the characters are all the same, they just have different pictures so you can tell who bet what. Are you talking about Camel Up or Marco Polo?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 18:23
|
|
|
Unless it's only 1 person that's never played before, I run the training mission (I might sit it out to let them do it on their own though) just because it doesn't quite click with some people how the game actually WORKS even after hearing the rules. Like it's hard to reconcile matching up the turns with the real time/continuous aspect of the game without seeing it. So they run through the training mission, then it's off to the full mission they go.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 18:24
|
|
|
OmegaGoo posted:Are you talking about Camel Up or Marco Polo? 
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 18:24
|
|
|
Elysium posted:Unless it's only 1 person that's never played before, I run the training mission (I might sit it out to let them do it on their own though) just because it doesn't quite click with some people how the game actually WORKS even after hearing the rules. Like it's hard to reconcile matching up the turns with the real time/continuous aspect of the game without seeing it. So they run through the training mission, then it's off to the full mission they go.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 18:29
|
|
|
Trynant posted:Splotter is basically two people that own a store in the Netherlands making games on the side. The games appealed to a niche of insane heavy euro players (me) so much that they kind of have what you could call a success with their side hobby (despite them not having anywhere near the financial success to actual print these games on a large scale or be picked up by bigger publishers). They can't afford to do large print runs and they have to make a profit off what they sell, so small print runs which by nature are more expensive per item printed. Splotter update: got an email from Holland this morning that an Indonesia reprint is in the works for 2016. A game I would never have expected to get so enamored with on first impression and I've been contemplating fabricating my own copy ever since. I think about $200+ in the states for a used copy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 18:36
|
|
|
I usually play the first and last training missions for Space Alert, if they're catching on. But I'm usually playing with normals. Are you referring to his post, or the post he replied to?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 18:43
|
|
|
JohnnySavs posted:I taught the game once to a mostly new group, emphasising that even if you win a fight against Khorne, it's probably still benefiting him. So everyone pseudo-cooperate to prevent him from fighting! Does anyone have any advice on giving basic strategy advice in such a manner that people will actually take it? It seems like every time I offer some important guideline, people do the exact opposite. I don't know if it's an ego thing where they can't take advice, or I have some sort of condescending tone that brings out stubbornness, or if their first instinct on hearing a general rule is to seek out every exception, or if they think they're somehow winning the metagame by doing what I don't expect. But it always just ends in misery. The worst culprit is when I play Dominion with someone who has a couple dozen games under their belt but hasn't seen a particular card, so I give a helpful warning. "Hey guys, this is Torturer, you will usually get your rear end kicked for ignoring it and it's especially bad in a 4P game like this one." So of course neither of the new players buy Torturer, they get buried alive and complain all night. It happens every time. McNerd fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Nov 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 19:31
|
|
|
Is L5R war of honor worth playing a guy at my gaming group has given me it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 19:34
|
|
|
One more time - does anyone have any opinions/thoughts on Arena of the Planeswalkers? It keeps getting pushed so hard by WotC that I feel like there must be a decent game there but by god I can't find it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 19:53
|
|
|
I don't think advertising has anything to do with quality. But it's just Heroscape, isn't it?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 19:59
|
|
|
I never played Heroscape to compare - but of the five base factions in the box one has units that move through other units and as far as I can tell things don't have any cost to summon, so games end mercifully quickly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 20:04
|
|
|
Rumda posted:Is L5R war of honor worth playing a guy at my gaming group has given me it. I got confused because I was expecting this sentence to go something like, "Is L5R war of honor worth playing a guy at my gaming group who doesn't shower".
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 20:35
|
|
|
Rumda posted:Is L5R war of honor worth playing a guy at my gaming group has given me it. have you ever played the ccg? if so, than yes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 22:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 00:36 |
|
|
McNerd posted:The worst culprit is when I play Dominion with someone who has a couple dozen games under their belt but hasn't seen a particular card, so I give a helpful warning. "Hey guys, this is Torturer, you will usually get your rear end kicked for ignoring it and it's especially bad in a 4P game like this one." So of course neither of the new players buy Torturer, they get buried alive and complain all night. It happens every time. I did this last week. It was the first time we played with torturer and the other guys picked up like 1 each and I grabbed the rest. I then used a teacher to stick my +1 action token onto it and proceeded to draw my entire deck while hitting them all with a bunch of curses and junk. They all rage quit after one turn of that even though I warned them about torturer being crazy. Same thing happened the first time we used Goons as well, on my last turn I gained more points than anyone else had total and it didn't even count for half my points. Of course this now means they don't want to play with either of those cards again 
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2015 23:01
|
|
