|
Chris James 2 posted:Wonderful last 10 minutes Everything before then was fine., but by halfway through the death scene I was mumbling "die already" under my breath while I watched.
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 04:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 11:14 |
|
|
Ofaloaf posted:To be honest, I felt like the scene well overstayed its welcome. Clara keeps telling the Doctor to be good, tears well in eyes, the music switches to the most generic sappy hollywood tragedy music, and then Clara steps onto the street and the same shot is played over a couple times in a row to further draw out the death-by-Raven thing. 11's death scene took less time, it felt like. I liked that just because with, what, 2 more episodes left in the season and the next episode having only the Doctor, I expected it to be a fakeout. Was at least better than the ep/scene last year where they both lied to each other's faces at the cafe, hugged, and walked away
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 04:14
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:Hey, guys, look what I found an in print copy of! Those are some great stories too. Too bad you didn't get Ghost Light, the novel actually expands on the episode quite a bit. I thought that was a pretty darn good episode. The only thing I would have liked to see was some sort of callback to her time with Smith, maybe a Trenzalore reference. She's been through a lot with him, saved his life, was there when he was dying, etc. But as I suspected, the only way to get a companion out of the Doctor's life is something completely and irrevocably fatal. I thought maybe they'd give him some sort of out, like her walking out the door and him not seeing her die, so he could pull some timey-wimey shenanigans, but, nope. Gaz-L posted:I actually liked this version more than most. There's precedent for the Doctor doing apparently very nasty stuff when he's not considering himself to be the Doctor, so threatening Me with "The Doctor's not here!" worked for me. Yeah, that was pretty aces. Brought back shades of the War Doctor (especially with the "Don't be a Warrior"), the Timelord Victorious, Valeyard, etc. I liked the use of Ashildr too, and how she went from totally in control to very, very cowed and contrite.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 04:35
|
|
|
That crushed velvet jacket that 12 has on this episode  Please wear that all of Season 10.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 04:36
|
|
|
Greyhawk posted:Mostly "a mad man with a box" Which, historically, has not been what Doctor Who has been. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it not Doctor Who. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 04:43
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:Which, historically, has not been what Doctor Who has been. Seriously, most of the first and second Doctor's stories were him arriving somewhere in the Tardis and then not visiting it again until he was ready to leave. Three didn't even have a working one for most of his run.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 04:51
|
|
|
Astroman posted:Yeah, that was pretty aces. Brought back shades of the War Doctor (especially with the "Don't be a Warrior"), the Timelord Victorious, Valeyard, etc. I liked the use of Ashildr too, and how she went from totally in control to very, very cowed and contrite. Yeah and i'm not sure how it's an idle threat anyway. The Doctor always wins. What's idle about his threats? The only thing stopping huge body counts is that conveniently for a program that children watch, the Doctor either works out an optimum solution with the least violence OR the bad guys run away.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 04:51
|
|
|
Whenever The Doctor threatens anybody I think back to The Family of Blood.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 05:04
|
|
|
I really enjoyed that! Big emotional scenes in this show usually fall flat for me for one reason or another (especially 11's regeneration scenes) but this one absolutely got me, even though like everyone else I was pretty sure Clara was going to die this season. Here's a tumblr post from Sarah Dollard that she wrote a couple of days ago about how much of the last sequence was her writing and how much was Moffat. I think it's particularly interesting considering our tendency in this thread to attribute any big season-arc scenes at the end of episodes to Moffat's writing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 05:13
|
|
|
So First and foremost You're letting Cybermen come in here you are a moron that's almost as bad as letting Daleks in what the gently caress Me- this place is going to end tragically Second- this was a pretty good episode of Doctor Who. One of the best in the last few seasons. And not JUST because Clara died! DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD WHICH OLD WITCH THE WICKED WITCH DING DONG THE WICKED WITCH IS DEAD I cannot explain why I've gotten so fed up with Clara lately. She's just been very annoying and self important and a lot of season 8 did not sit well with me. I'm not literally happy she's gone, she's not Adric or anything, but I was not at all sad that she died. Mostly because yeah she hit the nail on the head, she's had a death wish this entire season and Dear God I'm glad she got what she wanted! And it's because of her own stupid mistake too. Go Clara.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 05:26
|
|
|
We have a few goons that watch the show with little kids, right? How are kids taking it?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 05:28
|
|
|
2 x Earthshock. Just making sure the bastard's dead.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 05:30
|
|
|
Organza Quiz posted:I really enjoyed that! Big emotional scenes in this show usually fall flat for me for one reason or another (especially 11's regeneration scenes) but this one absolutely got me, even though like everyone else I was pretty sure Clara was going to die this season. I'll echo what was said earlier ITT, that it was 100x better the send off then she would have gotten last year, had they not changed the Xmas ending at the last minute. Burkion posted:So As annoying as Clara was, she will never, ever be as insufferable as Tooth and Claw era Rose. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 05:38
|
|
|
Murderion posted:Neverwho. Exactly, although Diagon Alley made me laugh. A good episode but I'm really over the tear-jerking music crescendos. Well, she didn't eat as much as Adric and she was more responsible than most companions, she should have had a life. But this is why we can't have nice things. Ofaloaf posted:Everything before then was fine., but by halfway through the death scene I was mumbling "die already" under my breath while I watched. Yeah, life isn't like that, most people don't even get to say goodbye properly let alone be dramatic about it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 05:40
|
|
|
Never having non-televised Who to go on, I don't think having a Cyberman is too bad, assuming its one from Mondas and not from the other dimension. Cyberization was a gradual process and even in their first appearance (cannonically way later than the early 2000s) they still were basically individuals, just severely mentally ill ones.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 05:41
|
|
|
Angela Christine posted:We have a few goons that watch the show with little kids, right? How are kids taking it? My son started freaking out a little when it started becoming clear that this was the end for Clara, but as soon as she died he said "that raven took forever to get there!" Even an eight year old who bawls uncontrollably at literally every sad moment in any kids' movie was just ready for her poo poo to be over.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 05:48
|
|
|
I know Jenna Coleman is leaving at the end of the season and all, but how many people actually genuinely think her death in this episode is going to stick through to the end? Because I basically just went with the natural assumption that it's going to be retconned someway (and I don't mean the mindwipe drug) and then she'll depart in the final episode most likely alive v vOrganza Quiz posted:Here's a tumblr post from Sarah Dollard that she wrote a couple of days ago about how much of the last sequence was her writing and how much was Moffat. I think it's particularly interesting considering our tendency in this thread to attribute any big season-arc scenes at the end of episodes to Moffat's writing. Thanks for the link, I enjoyed her episode and I hope we see more of her again. I haven't seen any of the other stuff she has worked on, but she seemed to have a really good grasp on the characters AND on setting up an interesting situation. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Nov 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 06:16
|
|
|
Yeah I'm not quite sure that was her final death right there, but we'll see.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 06:18
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:I know Jenna Coleman is leaving at the end of the season and all, but how many people actually genuinely think her death in this episode is going to stick through to the end? Because I basically just went with the natural assumption that it's going to be retconned someway (and I don't mean the mindwipe drug) and then she'll depart in the final episode most likely alive v I really hope it was, otherwise holy poo poo that overly long gratuitous loving slow mo SILENT SCREAMING overwrought death scene of hers will just make an otherwise pretty drat good episode sink lower in my eyes. I mean you can bring back like, a random time splinter Clara. That's fine. But this one is dead let it be dead.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 06:20
|
|
|
I like that Ashildr says she knows the Doctor and she doesn't really care about his threats. Apparently she doesn't know about the time he gave the Family immortality with eternal torture. I'm sure he could find a spot for her in a mirror or as an eternal scarecrow. Great episode. Really interested in the next companion, though I wouldn't have minded another season of Clara.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 06:26
|
|
|
I think Clara was right when she said this is what she wanted. I couldn't really feel too sad about what was happening because she seemed a little too into being a martyr(for as it turns out no actual reason)
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 06:36
|
|
|
I'm VERY interested in next week's episode, mainly to see if it's more than a one-hander, and that's not a masturbation joke.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 07:09
|
|
|
During the previews for this season, I had it figured that this immortal girl was a regenerated Susan. Probably because Clara-as-Doctor last year implied that the Doctor figured her dead. I kind of wish they had gone that route, because god drat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 07:16
|
|
|
Really hope Clara's gone for good. I'm probably wrong on this, but I swear there just seems to be more of an air of the Doctor being a 'overly protective father' to her (bringing up how they won't hurt her, explaining in long speeches how mad that'll make him) than there was with other companions. And it's just great to finally see a character that's that infuriatingly smug bite it finally in a perfectly ironic way. With two episodes left, I won't give my hopes up tho. On a lighter note- the little world they visited in this episode was great. Love me some hog-podged old fashioned pub places, and I was happy they didn't dwell too much on it. It's a place where some bad guys go to be safe. Cool. Having Cyber men in your town probably isn't a good idea, but hey, whatever. Raven execution is fun and gives a good excuse for some neat visuals to boot. Also the next episode preview looks dope. Really hope it's just 60 minutes of Capaldi running around a puzzle castle. EatinCake fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Nov 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 07:19
|
|
|
Burkion posted:I really hope it was, otherwise holy poo poo that overly long gratuitous loving slow mo SILENT SCREAMING overwrought death scene of hers will just make an otherwise pretty drat good episode sink lower in my eyes. I don't doubt that she died in the episode, I just have a feeling the Doctor is going to mess with some very strict rules to gently caress around with that (and that some of the episodes we already saw this season may be post-loving with that stuff) before one or both of them makes the decision that for her own mental and emotional health it's time for her to leave. Primarily my reason for thinking this is that Clara dying during an adventure, even if she accepted her fate with dignity like she did here, results in a pretty poor overall character arc for her during her time with the 12th Doctor. Danny's heroic sacrifice was done so that she could live, but she seems to have been so scared of moving on with her life/properly mourning and moving on etc that she's instead filled every spare hour she could with adventures and excitement to keep from having to face up to reality. There's been times this season where the Doctor has attempted to address this with her and despite her outward calm and relaxed attitude it's seemed like there is a lot more going on beneath the surface and she's almost desperate to get off the subject. For all that to end with her just dying anyway feels to me like it is cheapening the necessity of Danny's death - he saved the world, but only because it happened to be where Clara was standing at the time. To die to save her only for her to abandon all but the most cursory attention to her regular life and go on a spree of distracting adventures before getting killed herself seems a waste. As always, the execution of whatever is to come remains to be seen and can put my thoughts and feelings into a whole new context, but as things currently stand I'd consider this "exit" to be excellent as part of the individual episode, but poor in the greater sense of her character's story.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 07:25
|
|
|
I enjoyed that. The atmosphere was good and the sendoff felt appropriate. Genuinely excited to see wrathful Capaldi next week. Is there any chance some of the episodes from this season happen after this one, from The Doctor's perspective? There was some suggestion he was acting like Clara was going to die. AndyElusive posted:Whenever The Doctor threatens anybody I think back to The Family of Blood.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 07:33
|
|
|
Ofaloaf posted:To be honest, I felt like the scene well overstayed its welcome. Yes, exactly this. Of course I had seen a quote from Capaldi earlier in the week saying "she dead" so that colored my perspective of the episode. I was just waiting for her to die, and that hampered my ability to focus on the episode itself. That and mainlining Jessica Jones all day, I need a drink.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 07:35
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Primarily my reason for thinking this is that Clara dying during an adventure, even if she accepted her fate with dignity like she did here, results in a pretty poor overall character arc for her during her time with the 12th Doctor. Danny's heroic sacrifice was done so that she could live, but she seems to have been so scared of moving on with her life/properly mourning and moving on etc that she's instead filled every spare hour she could with adventures and excitement to keep from having to face up to reality. There's been times this season where the Doctor has attempted to address this with her and despite her outward calm and relaxed attitude it's seemed like there is a lot more going on beneath the surface and she's almost desperate to get off the subject. For all that to end with her just dying anyway feels to me like it is cheapening the necessity of Danny's death - he saved the world, but only because it happened to be where Clara was standing at the time. To die to save her only for her to abandon all but the most cursory attention to her regular life and go on a spree of distracting adventures before getting killed herself seems a waste. Honestly I didn't want her to die but now that she has I am totally fine with that. I think that having a stupid pointless death does a lot of good sometimes. It does a lot for Ashildr's character, at least from an audience perspective, and, if they play it the right way, the Doctor's too. Honestly it even help's Clara's out a little bit. Her stupid, pointless death occurring just hours after she gleefully dangled herself over London without a care in the world or any safety harnesses is a nice and fulfilling arc to me. Do that poo poo often enough and eventually you'll die a needless death.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 08:15
|
|
|
Astroman posted:Yeah, that was pretty aces. Brought back shades of the War Doctor (especially with the "Don't be a Warrior"), the Timelord Victorious, Valeyard, etc. I liked the use of Ashildr too, and how she went from totally in control to very, very cowed and contrite. Capaldi was awesome during the last part of this episode, and really brought home that while Clara and Me/Ashsidir think they're operating on the same level as the Doctor, they don't really know him. Nobody knows him, really: the "Doctor who?" question says it all. This is an alien who can change faces, live for long periods of time, and goes on a lot of adventures that we really don't know anything about. We think we do as an audience, but the real answer is...no, we don't, not at all. The fact that he responded to his companion's certain death by threatening to bring down UNIT and the Daleks (of all things) to wipe out Me's little refugee camp says a lot about him. And it wasn't a hollow threat, as we see at the end: the Doctor is drat certain he's going to settle Me once and for all, and we know that he will. After all, Clara's little attempt to calm him down didn't even faze him once. The mercy that the Doctor showed, it seems, was in telling Me that she was on the poo poo list. And it makes sense that the Twelfth Doctor's realization about his face also harkened back to the Tenth Doctor, who had a really nasty side like that as well. We're definitely headed into some Dark Doctor territory, and it's horrifying to really see. That said, I can't wait for the next part.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 08:54
|
|
|
If anyone wants to see what 10 is up to watch Jessica Jones. If you have small children that are fans of him watch it with them as it will make you smile.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 09:04
|
|
|
This episode was worth it just to see Ashildr get the full force of Capaldi's bollocking face. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oWJGaUXmKA
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 09:10
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:If anyone wants to see what 10 is up to watch Jessica Jones. If you have small children that are fans of him watch it with them as it will make you smile. A... secret smile....?  I don't normally bingewatch but I've watched the first 11 episodes over the last day or so and it's really great. Tennant is utterly terrifying in the role.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 09:31
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:A... secret smile....? Smile like hope in the first episode 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 09:31
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:Smile like hope in the first episode Everything's gonna be allll right, the hero saved the day, yay! Edit: I'll stop now, don't wanna spoil anyone - the show's really good and well worth watching!
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 09:35
|
|
|
I felt like Clara's death was a fitting end to the intermittent "Clara is becoming too much like the Doctor" arc. She spent so much time becoming the Doctor that she died the way all Doctors do: Doing something stupid to save her Companion, and rolling a critical failure on her Luck check. She just forgot that when that happens to the Doctor, he gets up again. She doesn't get that luxury.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 10:06
|
|
|
Loved this episode. It's about time after a run of turds we've sat through recently, I don't think this season that the Doctor and Clara are running on the same timeline. There's been hints all season that the Doctor knows that Clara is going to die, and for most of the season his costume and hair have been different - all of a suddenly he's back to the Wizard look from last season. I reckon for him, this episode predates the start of the season, and his giving the confession dial to Ashilda is the start of it ending up in Missys hands.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 10:07
|
|
|
Mo0 posted:I felt like Clara's death was a fitting end to the intermittent "Clara is becoming too much like the Doctor" arc. She spent so much time becoming the Doctor that she died the way all Doctors do: Doing something stupid to save her Companion, and rolling a critical failure on her Luck check. She just forgot that when that happens to the Doctor, he gets up again. She doesn't get that luxury. "I'm less breakable than you are" perfectly summed up how the doctor thinks about himself and his companions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 10:10
|
|
|
Why didn't Ashildr actually offer to take the chronolock off Clara? It was very clear that she was getting weary of life before the events of "The Woman Who Lived", let alone "Face the Raven". That said, what would happen if an immortal person faced off against a quantum shade? I'm pretty sure it was established that Jack can survive a Dalek extermination beam.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 10:21
|
|
|
TinTower posted:Why didn't Ashildr actually offer to take the chronolock off Clara? It was very clear that she was getting weary of life before the events of "The Woman Who Lived", let alone "Face the Raven". She specifically said Clara changed the contract when she took it from him. The Quantum iTunes Terms and Cknditions are immutable after one transfer, apparently.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 10:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 11:14 |
|
|
Yeah, once the original target was changed, the "deal" between Ashildr and the Murder Raven was broken, and nobody can call it off from murdering the bearer of the tattoo when it reaches 0.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 10:32
|
|