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Ungh can you nerds take your rpg slap fighting somewhere else? You are making this a bad thread again.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:19
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I can imagine it, every single person that cares about the two series plays it the exact same way (ignore the main story, dick around for 200 hours) and it's dumb to imagine that is just the fans 'getting one over" on those dumb dumbs that keep doing the same ultra successful formula totally randomly by mistake. Where they really MEANT us all to be super into the main story and not be able to tear ourselves away from getting to the thrilling conclusion. I take issue with the "every single person" part of that. This structure is maybe fine with me for an Elder Scrolls game, but it isn't what I want out of a Fallout game. I'd rant about New Vegas but I've done that a ton in this thread already. To keep it short: even after several playthroughs of New Vegas, I don't ignore the story and just dick around--I don't even want to, because the story is good and there are plenty of ways that I can make it go differently than last time. Fallout 4 does better than Fallout 3 in this respect, but overall it's still pretty rigid, especially when it comes to side quests. There's a nice variety of how the endgame can go down, but it's pretty linear up to then and the end result of the various endgame paths is still "blow up Faction A, Faction B, or both" with no information about how that affected the Commonwealth so I'm not motivated to try for a different ending.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:19
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The Cheshire Cat posted:This is something a lot of people didn't know about the previous fallout games but you can do it in fo4 as well - if you click on the title at the top of an inventory list you can filter it by type.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:19
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 This looks pretty intimidating. I'm hoping to find more of these so I can give them to settlers that are stationed on guard posts. That, or give them all patrolman sunglasses, military caps, combat armour and army fatigues.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:20
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coyo7e posted:MacReady's wife's special wooden figurine they give you as a memento, is just a junk item that will auto-scrap if you aren't careful with it... Face it the main character is a survivalist.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:21
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Harrow posted:I take issue with the "every single person" part of that. This structure is maybe fine with me for an Elder Scrolls game, but it isn't what I want out of a Fallout game. I'd rant about New Vegas but I've done that a ton in this thread already. To keep it short: even after several playthroughs of New Vegas, I don't ignore the story and just dick around--I don't even want to, because the story is good and there are plenty of ways that I can make it go differently than last time. It just seems really clear the thing they are selling is 100% designed from the ground up as "we have a bunch of randomly scattered open world stuff" and not "we made a linear narrative" and it doesn't seem like some craaaazy mistake they are making over and over that the game has a weak central narrative that encourages you to largely ignore it.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:23
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Iceshade posted:
Most of the named raider bosses have the hooded spike armor, at least at low levels. I've only gotten two sets so far, but yeah, I really like the look of it. Worst case I'll just console spawn some. I plan on doing that anyway for vault jumpsuits so I can use different numbers for my different settler jobs so I can tell who's doing what.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:23
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MisterBibs posted:It's almost as if the first thing (that you finding out who you are being in the beginning or the middle is entirely immaterial) completely undercuts the second thing (that the story was supposedly handled badly because you find out who you are in the beginning)! If your argument hinges on something immaterial, re-examine. "finding out who you are" doesn't matter in any of the games, up to and including this one. Who you are is literally a faceless cipher, what is weird and poorly done story, is to then give this faceless automaton the literally laziest plot impetus ever - OMG go rescue your kid you're his only hope!!1!one! "Who you are" is never an issue, never was an issue, and is not an issue. What the game shoves in your face and then repeatedly makes your character whinge about, is the issue. If Codsworth's AI spun out of control after I woke up and got home to my bachelor pad with no wife and baby, I would be like "oh well he's kinda my only remaining friend, maybe it'd be nice to go find the institute (or whomever else they want to be the magic mr handy-fixing guys you search out). Here's an exercise, read this classic movie line out loud: "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope!" Tantalizing, isn't it? You don't know who this person is (but they're attractive) and they seem to need help for something larger than one person's needs. This sounds like the beginning of an epic journey and adventure! Now try reading this line, "They killed my wife and stole my baby!" This sounds like a 75-minute action flick starring Duane "The Rock" Johnson (or maybe Mel Gibson, or a shaven-headed Kevin Bacon?), where he breaks bottles over peoples' heads in every bar he walks into, tortures whomever he feels like whenever it suits him, and leaves every single place he visits a smoking wreckage - literally or figuratively. While I'm all for leaving most of the wasteland smoking wreckage, having that emotional context as my background really does detract from the polyamorous gay romance spree in the Fury Road water-based apocalyptic empire I created since waking up. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 21:30
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coyo7e posted:I missed you posting this, but I never realized anybody didn't know this, since on the console version it has prompts to hit LT and RT to move between groupings. That could explain why some people think the inventory in the workshop is unusable, and why I'm complaining about niggling stuff like raw meat being next to my cooked meat, and how MacReady's wife's special wooden figurine they give you as a memento, is just a junk item that will auto-scrap if you aren't careful with it... Yeah on PC it's not nearly as obvious - there's two arrows up by the title you can click to change the filters backwards/forwards, but the way they're positioned they just look like UI flourish for emphasis on the header rather than actual interactive elements. You can also used the a/d keys to swap filters but in a menu most people won't even bother touching the keyboard because why would you?
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Nov 30, 2015 21:30
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It just seems really clear the thing they are selling is 100% designed from the ground up as "we have a bunch of randomly scattered open world stuff" and not "we made a linear narrative" and it doesn't seem like some craaaazy mistake they are making over and over that the game has a weak central narrative that encourages you to largely ignore it. I don't think any writer over at Bethesda ever sat down to a day of work and thought "let's craft something that's going to be ignored" - it may cross their minds as an eventuality of the genre they've pioneered but it's not anyone's ideal. Bethesda hides their best set pieces behind the main quest, a huge chunk of voice acting, and on top of it gives you the impetus of rescuing a baby to light a fire under your butt. I honestly think "weak central narrative" is a problem that Bethesda keeps running into time and time again. They made Morrowind, after all - they're capable of greatness. They just have that one stumbling block, among others.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:32
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah on PC it's not nearly as obvious - there's two arrows up by the title you can click to change the filters backwards/forwards, but the way they're positioned they just look like UI flourish for emphasis on the header rather than actual interactive elements. You can also used the a/d keys to swap filters but in a menu most people won't even bother touching the keyboard because why would you? 
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Nov 30, 2015 21:34
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Deified Data posted:I don't think any writer over at Bethesda ever sat down to a day of work and thought "let's craft something that's going to be ignored" - it may cross their minds as an eventuality of the genre they've pioneered but it's not anyone's ideal. Bethesda hides their best set pieces behind the main quest, a huge chunk of voice acting, and on top of it gives you the impetus of rescuing a baby to light a fire under your butt. I honestly think "weak central narrative" is a problem that Bethesda keeps running into time and time again. They made Morrowind, after all - they're capable of greatness. They just have that one stumbling block, among others. Like these are super popular and super beloved games and all you ever hear is people thinking they have some master trick to ignore the main story and play the game how they want and it just seems possible now that they have down it half a dozen times that maybe this isn't some trick the user base is just thinking up totally randomly and maybe this is actually a part of the genre that at some point the company read any message board ever and caught on to as the way people love these games and what they buy them for. I bet they playtest the hell out of these games to make sure people aren't bee lining the whole game through the main story. Their whole game design fails if people don't constantly wander off.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:35
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coyo7e posted:
Why would I not want to play this Why did I not model John Fallout as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson
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Nov 30, 2015 21:37
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Mondian posted:How is that even possible when you've also played Oblivion, Skyrim, and FNV? No one who didn't buy Skyrim at release has ever played it without SkyUI.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:38
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It just seems really clear the thing they are selling is 100% designed from the ground up as "we have a bunch of randomly scattered open world stuff" and not "we made a linear narrative" and it doesn't seem like some craaaazy mistake they are making over and over that the game has a weak central narrative that encourages you to largely ignore it. I don't know how you can play Fallout 4 and not see that they clearly really wanted a strong central narrative here. There's a prologue with a revenge and kidnapping setup. They tie it in closely with the rest of the main plot. They hired voice actors for the main character because having a voiced protagonist can help sell dramatic moments. (I'm assuming here that they didn't just do it because everyone else is--I'm assuming they had a good reason.) Their whole reveal trailer focused on the family and the contrast between pre- and post-apocalypse. That the narrative falls flat is a mistake because they clearly really wanted it not to. You point out that they designed it as a bunch of randomly scattered open world stuff, and that's true--but it also has a central narrative that has quite a bit of effort and budget put into it. It can be both things. I recognize that, again, I am clearly in the minority in preferring New Vegas to Fallout 4, as evidenced by the sales of both games. I'm a nerdy RPG fan who wants his nerdy RPG roleplaying, even if it comes at the cost of having a "just gently caress around and do whatever you want" world design. My criticisms probably make no sense to people with different priorities, but I don't think that means they're invalid or that Bethesda can't be criticized for having a weak story because "most players ignore it anyway." Harrow fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 21:39
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Entropic posted:No one who didn't buy Skyrim at release has ever played it without SkyUI. I did, I only installed it on my most recent go around. It's not that great but I appreciate it made the text smaller so I can see more at once.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:39
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Geostomp posted:So I'm getting slaughtered by low level monsters outside Diamond City as I roam. It's becoming increasingly clear that my old tactic of VATS constantly is not working out in this newer setting. Any tips on armor, weapon, and skill combinations for a low level trying to get by until the real power kicks in? With certain SPECIAL builds, VATS just won't being worth using at all. You've really screwed yourself out of fun if you dumped too many points into Endurance / Perception / Intelligence. I dreaded combat on my first character because it was so bland.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:40
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Magmarashi posted:No, they all told you straight up who you were and what you were doing, and even imparted a greater sense of urgency on you in the case of the first game with an actual time limit. They're comparing Fallout to TES games mostly because there isn't a meaty argument to be had when you compare Fallout to Fallout. That's nothing like being handed a gut punch (writing-wise) like your kid being stolen.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:41
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like these are super popular and super beloved games and all you ever hear is people thinking they have some master trick to ignore the main story and play the game how they want and it just seems possible now that they have down it half a dozen times that maybe this isn't some trick the user base is just thinking up totally randomly and maybe this is actually a part of the genre that at some point the company read any message board ever and caught on to as the way people love these games and what they buy them for. lol
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Nov 30, 2015 21:42
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I really hosed up hard making my SPECIAL stats average all around instead of a few standouts, I really should have gone heavy into INT/CHA for what I want.quote:I bet they playtest quote:lol quote:New Vegas you don't even remember who you were, and frankly I never did figure it out and got hundreds and hundreds of hours out of the game, and never, ever bothered to beat it. Your character actually doesn't have amnesia, they just don't really care and it doesn't matter unless you play Lonesome Road.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:43
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RBA Starblade posted:I really hosed up hard making my SPECIAL stats average all around instead of a few standouts, I really should have gone heavy into INT/CHA for what I want. Heavy INT/CHA worked well for me. Tons of crafting, effectively unlimited fusion cores, supply lines and overpowered companions. I had just enough PER to get Lockpick, increased AGI because I wanted Action Boy, got enough STR for Armorer, and I ended up spending some perk points later on increasing END (more HP per point in the long run than Life Giver, hilariously). But it worked out pretty nice.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:45
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Harrow posted:Because there are only four choices, and in a lot of cases, the only choice that isn't "I want revenge for my spouse" or "I need to find my son" is something sociopathic. WHERE IS MY KIDNAPPED CHILD LOOKING FOR MY SON BARTER HATE The runner-up being: WEAR/REMOVE POWER ARMOR DISMISS TRADE HAVE SEX WITH ME (colored yellow, Charisma check)
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Nov 30, 2015 21:47
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coyo7e posted:I'm exaggerating of course, but this is pretty much how most dialogue wheels have coalesced together in my memory of this game I've put over a hundred hours into: SPEAK AS SHROUD should have remained as an option for the rest of the game. Especially the parts where the character can't think of anything clever to say or flubs it then falls back on a canned line.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:50
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RBA Starblade posted:I really hosed up hard making my SPECIAL stats average all around instead of a few standouts, I really should have gone heavy into INT/CHA for what I want. Yeah, your character has whatever backstory you want, they're not amnesiac, it's just that it never comes up except at certain points. Like, you meet a lounge singer and one of the dialog options is "Holy crap, I saw you back in New Reno", stuff like that. The main reason is because having your backstory come up in dialog would possibly contradict whatever backstory you have in mind for your character.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:52
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There needs to be a mod that completely re-writes the entire plot so it turns out that Mama Murphy was the true villain all along, and is secretly running the Institute, pulling the strings, and giving orders to Kellog. She did everything leading up to the events of the game when she got really, really high one day and thought it'd be funny. The final boss battle consists of an FEV-enhanced Mama Murphy boosted up to Super Mutant Behemoth proportions, and wearing a custom suit of X-01 power armor. Also Shaun is long gone because after thawing him out of the Vault, she sold him to a drug dealer for some Jet.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:54
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like these are super popular and super beloved games and all you ever hear is people thinking they have some master trick to ignore the main story and play the game how they want and it just seems possible now that they have down it half a dozen times that maybe this isn't some trick the user base is just thinking up totally randomly and maybe this is actually a part of the genre that at some point the company read any message board ever and caught on to as the way people love these games and what they buy them for. I see what you're getting at. Bethesda is definitely aware of how people play their games, regardless of the ambition or lack thereof found in their plotlines. In most Bethesda games, the main quest works in "breather" moments to give you the chance to explore a bit or do other things before you resume the main quest ("We have to formulate a plan, come back to us when you're ready to proceed") - they do this to preserve the narrative flow while still allowing you the chance to explore. My issue with Fallout 4 is that it doesn't really give you one of these until 3/4's through the main quest, namely [END SPOILERS] when you discover your son is an adult who clearly doesn't need rescuing. Everything up to that point is basically a mad dash to the end so you can resolve the central conflict and not break immersion every time you stop to build settlements or help a robot with his problems that pale in comparison to yours. So yeah, I feel like 4's narrative was an experiment on Bethesda's part to see how involved they could make it and still keep the sense of exploration intact. Sadly I don't think they were as successful as they'd like.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:55
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Backhand posted:There needs to be a mod that completely re-writes the entire plot so it turns out that Mama Murphy was the true villain all along, and is secretly running the Institute, pulling the strings, and giving orders to Kellog. She did everything leading up to the events of the game when she got really, really high one day and thought it'd be funny. The final boss battle consists of an FEV-enhanced Mama Murphy boosted up to Super Mutant Behemoth proportions, and wearing a custom suit of X-01 power armor.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:57
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coyo7e posted:I wonder how many PC players don't know that hitting the Reload/Draw Weapon will change the images on the loading screens from wireframe to normal color, either! 
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Nov 30, 2015 21:58
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coyo7e posted:It's not "you find out who you are" you blithering nicompoop, it's because you are given this heavy-handed emotional blackmail of a macguffin and told you're supposed to give a poo poo about it. I have no idea how you've become so fixated on a tangent and begun using it as some kind of blunt instrument to counter people saying that killing your wife and stealing your kid in the first ten minutes is lazy, sloppy, hamhanded, and juvenile. It's the kind of thing you come up with when you're writing the script for a Lifetime Special movie, or when you're 13 and trying to write a gritty sword and sorcery adventure novel with heavy emotional stuff going on. Both of you need a hobby that isn't this, jfc.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:00
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coyo7e posted:She took so much Jet she can see that everybody else is stuck within the Matrix. She becomes the Agent. An endless parade of Mama Murphy synths, each one rushing the player armed with a super sledge.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:01
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Man you guys are bad.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:02
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Anybody try an unarmed/melee only build with much success? I can already imagine the perk investment I'd need but just wanted to know if you found it rewarding at all - there's not terribly much variety. You basically just have to choose whether you want to use the power fist or the super sledge in the end, right?
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Nov 30, 2015 22:04
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coyo7e posted:It's the kind of thing you come up with when you're writing the script for a Lifetime Special movie, or when you're 13 and trying to write a gritty sword and sorcery adventure novel with heavy emotional stuff going on. Or, ya know, a video game. It's not like we're discussing an overwrought indie game with a Deep Message here. You're playing a game that draws heavily from pulpy schlock. coyo7e posted:Who you are is literally a faceless cipher That's never been true, though. coyo7e posted:Here's an exercise, read this classic movie line out loud: "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope!" Tantalizing, isn't it? Nah, the burning skeletons were the tantalizing part. The bad guys killed his parents. I'm now invested. coyo7e posted:Now try reading this line, "They killed my wife and stole my baby!" This sounds like a 75-minute action flick starring Duane "The Rock" Johnson (or maybe Mel Gibson, or a shaven-headed Kevin Bacon?), where he breaks bottles over peoples' heads in every bar he walks into, tortures whomever he feels like whenever it suits him, and leaves every single place he visits a smoking wreckage - literally or figuratively. Sounds pretty awesome. Prolly would do well at the box office, to boot. coyo7e posted:While I'm all for leaving most of the wasteland smoking wreckage, having that emotional context as my background really does detract from the polyamorous gay romance spree in the Fury Road water-based apocalyptic empire I created since waking up. Then don't play that sort of character, if you don't want the game's plot clashing with your bizarre choices. Entropic posted:No one who didn't buy Skyrim at release has ever played it without SkyUI. I've never used SkyUI, because with all Bethesda UIs, by the time an alternate UI is made I've got the muscle memory of the existing one down to a science.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:06
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coyo7e posted:I guess I don't understand why you'd bother hauling around so much garbage and selling it to vendors. It's not strictly on purpose. A few guns I loot specifically to give to settlers before sending them on a trade route or to live at another settlement. The rest of the guns are there because you get additional ammo if you pick the gun up off the ground instead of looting it from the body. If my inventory isn't full then I don't bother to drop them. When I get back to town I scrap most of it and store the stuff that is meant for my settlers. Most of the stuff I'm saving to sell in bulk is my own out-leveled gear, but if one of the poo poo guns I picked up is worth more than like 250 caps then I will set it aside to sell because gently caress actually spending my caps. All of my transactions end in financial gain so I can become the richest housewife in the wasteland.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:09
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MisterBibs posted:Nah, the burning skeletons were the tantalizing part. The bad guys killed his parents. I'm now invested. Well, no, you were already invested from the moment you saw the damsel in distress, witnessed the bad guy being a bad guy in need of comeuppance, and saw that the protagonist longed for something greater. His aunt and uncle dying was just the point of no return motivation where the hero can no longer refuse the call of adventure. Crappy Jack fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 22:10
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Deified Data posted:Anybody try an unarmed/melee only build with much success? I can already imagine the perk investment I'd need but just wanted to know if you found it rewarding at all - there's not terribly much variety. You basically just have to choose whether you want to use the power fist or the super sledge in the end, right? Yes. Though I prefer Rockville Slugger for clearing out the chaff and only really use the sledge for legendaries and other big hp sponges.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:14
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Mondian posted:Yes. Though I prefer Rockville Slugger for clearing out the chaff and only really use the sledge for legendaries and other big hp sponges. Did you have much tactical use for weapons of varying swing speeds? I'll probably keep a fast/med/heavy on hand just to see if they come in handy.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:16
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Crappy Jack posted:Well, no, you were already invested from the moment you saw the damsel in distress, witnessed the bad guy being a bad guy in need of comeuppance, and saw that the protagonist longed for something greater. His aunt and uncle dying was just the point of no return motivation where the hero can no longer refuse the call of adventure. Um, no, I wasn't really invested until 'holy poo poo the bad guys killed Luke's adopted parents'.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:17
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Harrow posted:I don't know how you can play Fallout 4 and not see that they clearly really wanted a strong central narrative here. There's a prologue with a revenge and kidnapping setup. They tie it in closely with the rest of the main plot. They hired voice actors for the main character because having a voiced protagonist can help sell dramatic moments. (I'm assuming here that they didn't just do it because everyone else is--I'm assuming they had a good reason.) Their whole reveal trailer focused on the family and the contrast between pre- and post-apocalypse. That the narrative falls flat is a mistake because they clearly really wanted it not to. Yeah it's not like I think Bethesda needs to have really strong writing and main plots, they make open-world exploration/dungeon-diving games that are highly moddable. The central narratives have always been fairly weak and that's fine, they're not why most people play these games. What's different about F4 is they sunk tons of money and time into protagonist voice-acting and extra dialogue options to go with it which only really serve to draw attention to the lovely writing. They don't really add any player choice. I guess I feel like the game would've been better if they put that additional effort into actual plotting, faction interactions, quests etc than just adding window dressing through extra (of the same) dialogue options and voice-acting. Bethesda tried to polish a turd most of their fans were happy to ignore. So now we have a blindingly shiny turd which distracts from the rest of the game, which is I think in every other way at least a modest improvement over their previous titles.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:17
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Deified Data posted:Did you have much tactical use for weapons of varying swing speeds? I'll probably keep a fast/med/heavy on hand just to see if they come in handy. Not really, no. The bat and the sledge have really similar damage, but I can swing the bat like 8 times instead of 3 in vats, so it gets used more often except for when I need a huge crit to one-shot big stuff. I can't say I found anything else useful compared to those two.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:18
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