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I've gotten two games in with my brother so far - him playing undead and myself playing dwarves. It's been pretty fun so far, although we only did 700 points each time due to me not properly grasping how much work would be involved in assembling a mega-army after dealing with WMH/Malifaux level of assembly. I'm really liking the Heal(3) artifact, although I definitely need more non-warmachine Inspiration sources. A reliable Bane-Chant source would probably also prove helpful. Any dwarf players have tips for a new guy?
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Nov 29, 2015 05:03
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Pyrolocutus posted:I've gotten two games in with my brother so far - him playing undead and myself playing dwarves. It's been pretty fun so far, although we only did 700 points each time due to me not properly grasping how much work would be involved in assembling a mega-army after dealing with WMH/Malifaux level of assembly. I recommend playing an actual good army    
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Nov 29, 2015 05:59
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Pyrolocutus posted:I've gotten two games in with my brother so far - him playing undead and myself playing dwarves. It's been pretty fun so far, although we only did 700 points each time due to me not properly grasping how much work would be involved in assembling a mega-army after dealing with WMH/Malifaux level of assembly. Early in the game a battle driller or two and a flame cannon are gold if you like infantry. They sit behind your lines and can do all kinds if things. -shoot or support countercharge with infantry against things like cavalry or monsters they can see over the guys in front. Since you can charge through things if the driller can reach knights over infantry it can get in and create some interesting shuffles of big units. -counter attack super mobile units that try to flank or fly over you. A driller has good combat stats and 360 charge angles, two of them cover a lot of area. A flame cannon can be moved and fired without penalty as well. Drillers also have good defense and no flanks when they're chasing flankers. -these units are cheap as chips and are great to sprinkle in with whatever build you enjoy.
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Nov 29, 2015 06:23
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Trip Report! Just got back from a 10 person, swiss style KoW tournament, and played my first 4 games ever, using the Ogre list I posted earlier Battle 1 Kill: Loss - I faced Twilight kin, my Ogre Shooters were annihilating a regiment per turn, and my giant ran rampant. However, his dragon, pinned between a full blast from a regiment of boomers and a flank charge from my 1h Warrior horde after gunning for the ASB first rolled snake eyes on his nerve check, got away, and then proceeded to pillage everything I had starting with the shooters, and there was nothing I could do to stop it. Only the Giant survived, but I lost on points.  Battle 2 Dominate: Draw - Came up against the TO and his Orcs. I learned from the last battle and positioned better from the start. My giant and his trolls proceeded to charge and counter charge each other all game to no effect, my shooters trounced his horde before it could cross the board, and after a lot of blood, including a valiant hold out from a boomer regiment who used difficult terrain to great effect in ruining every charge into them, and a lucky extra turn roll from me, we made a mad dash for the middle of the table, my ASB spewing breath attacks into the back or a Moraxe regiment but unable to waver it, and although he had more point, it wasn't 150 more, so ended in a draw.  Those houses were amazing flank protection for the Shooters Battle 3 Pillage: Win - Came up against a big KoM army, slightly mucked up positioning my all conquering shooters so they were out of the game due to blocked LoS for a big portion. He looked like he was going to take it, as I never had enough units to be able to hold a lot of objectives, but it swung back my way when my Giant went down - it opened up my shooters, who, with my 1h Warriors started carving the left flank, while other things slowly died. The highlight was the last two turns - my 2h weapon warriors (15/17) worked up to 18 wounds from Arquebusiers, and rolled snake eyes on the nerve check, which let me run them into hold objective 3, giving me a 3 to 1 lead. Opponent rolled an extra turn, killed an ASB occupying an objective with cannons, moved his arquebusiers to make it 2-2, and then scored 4 wounds on the Warriors with I think a mortar. Now with 22 wounds, the Warriors got snake eyes on the nerve check for the second turn in a row, then with the Arquebusiers just barely inside the firing arc of my Shooters, I one shotted them off the board for a 2 to 1 victory   Hero Ogres stronk! (Forgot to take pics of this battle, image is from the TO on the facebook page) Battle 4 Kill: Win - An undead opponent, an opponent as slow as I was for once, though he shambled a horde right up the middle fast first turn. I was able to move boomers up, them combined with the shooters deleted it first turn, and I moved my other boomers and 2h warriors around some blocking terrain to get into a flank. The giant and some cavalry tarpitted each other, and despite Mhorgoth getting behind everything, killing an ASB and lightning bolting my Shooters almost to death, I was able to grind him down. Wight horde with a 6+ DE were worrying at first, but he tok out my Diadem ASB in a charge, leaving them open to a warrior flank charge, which finished them. Was a big points win, but if it had gone on another turn I would have lost the Giant and Shooters for sure, as the giant was completely useless against life sucking cavalry given Mhorgoth's regen ability.  In the end I finished 3rd, hooray for me Biggest notes to take out of it: Ogre shooter horde coupled with the brew of keen eyedness is a huge, huge danger, and everyone was so concerned with my Giant - which turned out to be useful at little more than being a flank blocking tarpit 3 times out of 4 - that they let my Shooters carry on far, far too long. 18 dice hitting on a +4, with piercing (2), produces mad amount of wounds, and as long as you position them well the 36" range isn't a huge impediment. Plus they can take a hell of a lot more punishment than a war engine. Granted, at 275 points you could get 4 war engines, but the KoM player had two cannons and a mortar, and never came close to replicating the damage. Worth mentioning that these were 1500 point battles with 90 minutes allotted each, and though none of mine ended in outright destruction of one side, I was able to breeze through my first ever games without making any serious mistakes, and every game had momentum shifts, and felt like we had played a full game rather than been cut off less than halfway through. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 13:11
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Nice one  Any chance of seeing a list?
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Nov 29, 2015 22:34
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Daedleh posted:Nice one Ogre Shooters and Boomers (and abyssal dwarf blunderbusses) are some of my favorite units in the game. What do you guys use to combat fast flanking forces in ogres? I have had bad luck with ogre heroes against flyers or other really fast guys. Ogre heroes simply do not provide the flexibility of a dwarf battle driller or some other fierce hero. I feel like shooters and boomers mitigate some vulnerability but I an wondering if there is a trick I am missing.
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Nov 29, 2015 22:47
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In which size unit do you field the blunderbusses (blunderbii?) VVV I meant the abyssal dwarfs. Unless the same applies to them, in which case thanks. Not a viking fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 00:00
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^^ I tend to field regiments. I find that with them being so close to the rest of your army that boomers are prime targets for disordering by enemy characters. Having said that, if you do have a horde of boomers and your opponent tries to disorder them... then the character gets a face full of 18 Me4 CS1 attacks.Doctor Borris posted:Ogre Shooters and Boomers (and abyssal dwarf blunderbusses) are some of my favorite units in the game. What do you guys use to combat fast flanking forces in ogres? I have had bad luck with ogre heroes against flyers or other really fast guys. Ogre heroes simply do not provide the flexibility of a dwarf battle driller or some other fierce hero. I feel like shooters and boomers mitigate some vulnerability but I an wondering if there is a trick I am missing. Terrain, shooters, boomers and red goblin scouts. Drag fast units through terrain, they lose TC and Ogres will be able to smash them easily. Also, layering your army and having rearguard units: https://manticforum.com/forum/kings-of-war/general-discussion-aa/256619-anti-flyer-tactics A couple of regiments of CS2 ogres make a perfect back line defence against flyers. If your opponent doesn't have a heavy flyer (or your shooters have taken it out) then they can quickly join the main battle line as shock troops. e: oh for the love of... Mantic: "Hey Rules Committee, what's up with the complaints about shooting and fast armies being overpowered?" RC: "We don't think people are using enough terrain (and also are only playing Kill scenarios and not any of the others). We should publish some guidelines." Mantic: "Great! Send them through and we'll add them to the FAQ." RC sends photos through. Mantic crops the photos down rather than resizes, and cuts off half the terrain coverage. In other news, here's what the example terrain layouts in the FAQ SHOULD look like: 
Daedleh fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 00:15
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Daedleh I've read you excellent guides. Keep up the good work. I have not used them yet but after some ugly flying flank charges I plan to ally in drillers and maybe a dwarf king to present some hard targets on boomers flanks behind my lines. Basically stop any way for flyers to land.
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Nov 30, 2015 04:09
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Daedleh posted:^^ I tend to field regiments. I find that with them being so close to the rest of your army that boomers are prime targets for disordering by enemy characters. Having said that, if you do have a horde of boomers and your opponent tries to disorder them... then the character gets a face full of 18 Me4 CS1 attacks. Did they add the cropped ones to the FAQ? The version I'm able to find still ends with unit basing guidelines and doesn't have any terrain photos.
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Nov 30, 2015 04:17
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Daedleh posted:Nice one quote:Ogres (Neutral) Exactly 1500 points. Generally I moved the healing ASB with the 2H warriors and their boomers, the diadem ASB went with the 1H warriors and their boomers, War-bow ASB stayed near the shooters, and the Giant didn't get his own detyailed, but usually ended up within 6" of one of them, though the one time he died he wasn't. Don't have anyone else's lists sorry! e: Also Dungeon Saga arrived this morning 
NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 05:40
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I can finally close the book on my order problem with Mantic. After sending me an out of production Drakon Rider, they got me the elf Battle Dragon in record time and included an elf queen for my troubles. They had offered to upgrade to the Fat Dragon, but i declined partially because the rules are designed around a 50x50 monster base and my opponents are weird about that, plus I'm just not such a huge fan of that model. But hey, at least the offer was there.
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Nov 30, 2015 11:37
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 all round then, pity it took so long
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Nov 30, 2015 13:58
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Doctor Borris posted:Ogre Shooters and Boomers (and abyssal dwarf blunderbusses) are some of my favorite units in the game. What do you guys use to combat fast flanking forces in ogres? I have had bad luck with ogre heroes against flyers or other really fast guys. Ogre heroes simply do not provide the flexibility of a dwarf battle driller or some other fierce hero. I feel like shooters and boomers mitigate some vulnerability but I an wondering if there is a trick I am missing. Most of the forces I faced didn't really have much in the way of fast flanking stuff, the fastest two were the TK Dragon, which I could do nothing about once it got behind, and Mhorgoth, who likewise got behind but was less destructive. I used my Giant as a blocking force a couple times, people were inordinately concerned about the damage he could put out and usually beelined their heaviest hitter right at it, and he generally had the De and nerve to hold on long enough. My 1h warriors with phalanx were used once for this the time I had cavalry coming it me from both sides. Really though, the thing I picked up on most was that with such a small number of units, I had to be super careful about my deployment and manouevring, and make the absolute most of the terrain. I tried to use blocking terrain to protect warrior flanks, used Boomers on the other warrior flanks, and tried to use difficult terrain as an extra barrier to charges, which at the same time provided no cover from my breath attacks. One regiment of Boomers took 4 separate charges from a regiment of Moraxe attacking out of difficult ground to go down, while killing a troop and regiment in reply. Likewise I did best when I was able to start my shooters in a good firing position, and arrange either blocking terrain or units - especially the Giant - to be impediments. Then the Shooters immediately went to work first clearing hordes, then trying to delete as many units as possible before the army came into contact with mine, to reduce the number of units available to flank my small force. Then they went after high De units, then targets of immediate threat/opportunity. They really were the lynchpin to my entire strategy. e is not q NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 14:06
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NTRabbit posted:
It was worth the wait. This thing loving rules. 
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Nov 30, 2015 15:10
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^^ Old battle dragon is awesome.drgnvale posted:Did they add the cropped ones to the FAQ? The version I'm able to find still ends with unit basing guidelines and doesn't have any terrain photos. Here's the latest version, with the cropped photos on page 4: http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/File/KINGS%20OF%20WAR/KoW%20FAQ%20and%20Errata%20191115.pdf Doctor Borris posted:Daedleh I've read you excellent guides. Keep up the good work. Check out this tactica by Daniel King as well: https://manticforum.com/forum/kings...-goblin-example He puts together a Goblin list to counter flyers and shooting heavy armies but talks through why he chooses each unit and how he forms a battle line. The tactics are wholly applicable to Ogres - use Shooters instead of the catapults and Boomers instead of the trombones. Regular Ogre Warriors or Beserkers can take the place of the mawbeasts for back line protection. The shooters will need to be positioned better because they will get cover modifiers from the Ogre units in front, however they are much more reliable than the catapults and can hit back in combat. Daedleh fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 16:57
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The event that made me fall 100% in love with ogre shooters was a game where they shot down a unit of harpies then were disrupted, so they beat a unit of abyssal halfbreeds to death with harpoon cannons. I also have used them a lot as allies with dwarves for example. Being able to shoot over the heads of everyone in the army is pretty keen. Daedleh The new Unexplored Empires book is arriving around here soon. What armies did you work on the most? What armies are you proudest/most impressed with? Doctor Borris fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Dec 1, 2015 |
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Dec 1, 2015 07:29
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How does everyone feel about DreadBall? My LGS is going to start running a league soon. I got a chance to demo it today and really enjoyed it. Looking at the Z'zor team and the Nameless team.
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Dec 1, 2015 07:44
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Doctor Borris posted:
Ratkin and Night Stalkers took the most work I think. I drew up the first drafts of the fishmen and empire of dist but they didn't actually need much revision after. We tweaked them a little bit but the core gist of them worked right away. Ratkin took a lot of playtesting work and the community contributed loads. Trying to get their army rule working was very slow work and unfortunately the results were clouded by some playtesters who weren't used to playing horde armies. They had a big change at one point from Goblin equivalents to human equivalents but that got reverted back quickly. Eventually the final version of Rallying ended up being nearly identical to its first iteration. Of all the public lists, the rats certainly took the most time. Nightstalkers took the most time overall. They are a huge departure from KoW standards so we had to do a lot of revising to get the balance down. They also had an impact on other armies because Sami wanted the Brotherhoods rule to be Inspiring and not Rallying. Eventually I won the debate on that one and pointed out that if Brotherhood were to have Inspiring then Nightstalkers should benefit rather than having an exception. The army having Stealthy as its special rule took a while for us to get to grips with. Stealthy's not a very common rule so we didn't have such a good feel for how much it's worth, especially as an army rule. The initial draft had the units a lot more expensive than they are now because we over valued it. When we got our heads around it we started dropping points costs down until we were happy. We didn't have to do much balancing regarding stats because we nailed those pretty much straight away. It was just the points we struggled with :-)
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Dec 1, 2015 09:36
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Doctor Borris posted:Right now Mars Attacks and Deadzone is for sale super cheap on the website. Almost worth it just for the terrain and the Mars Attacks minis are just gorgeous. I'm hoping that Mars Attacks price lasts for December, it'll be a Christmas present to myself :v It is a bit worrying though, think they'll be dropping the range? Looks like they're getting rid of as much current gen Deadzone stuff as possible.
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Dec 1, 2015 13:53
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They're clearing out current gen because a new edition is coming next spring. Also, between the infestation and warpath kickstarters 4 of the 6 factions have been redone in hard plastic.
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Dec 1, 2015 14:01
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How do you feel the rats compare to the goblins? It seems both armies have great brutes and hordes of wounds. I've always been a big fan of the Skaven mad science, I like how KOW adapted their rules to the tabletop. Speaking of mad science have you seen any conversions by people using a steam punk aesthetic? Maybe Warmachine Warjacks or Warpath stuff as counts-as?
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Dec 1, 2015 17:33
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:They're clearing out current gen because a new edition is coming next spring. Also, between the infestation and warpath kickstarters 4 of the 6 factions have been redone in hard plastic. I guessed that much, as I'm on the Deadzone KS. I'm mostly curious about wether Mars Attacks! will be continued - but then I remembered that the Warpath KS included a faction choice of MA stuff, so I'm hoping that means the range is safe.
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Dec 1, 2015 18:38
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Doctor Borris posted:How do you feel the rats compare to the goblins? It seems both armies have great brutes and hordes of wounds. I've always been a big fan of the Skaven mad science, I like how KOW adapted their rules to the tabletop. Well I hate the goblin army rule with a passion so I'm biased  I argued very passionately that yellow bellied should have been removed from the game (or at least as an army rule) and turned into a positive trait (triple attacks in the flank for example) but that was one battle that I lost against Alessio. As it stands, I much, much prefer rats not just because the special rule is a good one but also their extra speed is really, really nice. So are the rat swarms.I've seen the odd Warjack used as things like the Dwarfs Steel Behemoth, but nothing much and nothing from Warpath.
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Dec 1, 2015 18:45
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InK105 posted:How does everyone feel about DreadBall? My LGS is going to start running a league soon. I got a chance to demo it today and really enjoyed it. Looking at the Z'zor team and the Nameless team. It is awesome. But the default pitches are too small and I had to commission some larger ones with bigger hexes to handle some of the bigger models.
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Dec 1, 2015 20:53
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Dreadball is a good game which was a breath of fresh air after trying to get Blood Bowl to be good The integrated bases on the models are annoying as gently caress though especially with clear hex bases included
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Dec 1, 2015 21:25
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There were 20 dudes playing KoW this last Saturday at my local gaming store. It was a friendly get to know the rules even. I have started an 10mm army but watching all these old warhammer fantasy armies getting pulled out has got me to work on a ratkin army in 28mm. It has also got me thinking about using my old tyranid models as a night stalker army. Which models would you use to represent which units? I would be able to figure it out myself but i dont have the unchartered empires book yet and that KoW Easy Army site doesnt have them up yet.
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Dec 2, 2015 02:18
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signalnoise posted:Dreadball is a good game which was a breath of fresh air after trying to get Blood Bowl to be good What in particular makes Blood Bowl "not good"? Just asking as that and Necromunda (and to a lesser extent Space Hulk) are the games I think GW did right - and I've just finished a long 0-0 match of Orcs vs. Dark Elves...
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Dec 2, 2015 02:41
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Well firstly I'll admit it's a matter of opinion, but... Blood Bowl is a game where if your linebacker fails a check, your turn can end. Just like that. It takes a lot of control away from the player for you to live and die by the dice so much. It is a game of risk management where attempting to use all of your actions is pressing your luck. Ultimately that comes down to a major problem for me- if you have the ball, it is pressing your luck to try to use the actions of your brutes to clear a path for your runner. You might lose the rest of your turn because you failed one check. If you attempt to do the opposite order, to guarantee ball movement, you risk overexposure. Please do not turn that last line into a joke about ball exposure. In Dreadball, by comparison, you simply get an amount of actions to use that is not sufficient to move every player on your team's side, and you can bank those actions to get cards, and there's a whole lot of choices to make without sacrificing your turn. The only way you actually lose your turn due to a fuckup is on a turnover of the ball. You lose your turn on an interception, a missed goal, that kind of thing. There's still spectacular plays, but that's because of exploding dice. And that's more fun to me. All in all I just feel like Dreadball gives the player more control, and Blood Bowl steals that control more often than not.
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Dec 2, 2015 02:49
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Blood Bowl has a lot of issues and it just depends on the individual player's tolerance for bullshit. It's not exactly out of the ordinary for leagues to feature teams that get binned after the first game simply because of the luck based attrition rate making further progress almost impossible.
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Dec 2, 2015 17:49
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Well, I've got my first game of a new season tonight (Orcs vs. Vampires) so I'll reply properly once I've got that out of the way 
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Dec 2, 2015 18:09
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Blood Bowl has mostly aged well and has a fairly simple robust rules set. As said, it is the turn ending dice failures that can rub people up the wrong way and arguably weaken it as a competitive game. Dreadball is more consistent and fair on that score, but part of me still enjoys the ridiculous and often brutal twists of fate that Blood Bowl throws down even if I do lose games due to it. I still play videogame versions which typically translate the board game directly. Necromunda on the other hand was great back in the day but I honestly can't think it has held up all that well compared to modern alternatives like Deadzone or the many other skirmish games now on the market. It was kinda clunky back then...
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Dec 2, 2015 18:15
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Blood Bowl is a good game but it's got some quirks that can really trip up a new player. Your turn potentially ends after any dice roll, which can be super frustrating - until your internalize dice-free activations before risky stuff (in descending order of importance.) It's a game where if you gently caress up eating your meat, you can't get any pudding. And new players go straight for the pudding. My DS stuff got here... mostly. I'm missing the (refunded) traps, the dungeon critters, and the hardcover. Minus the traps and critters, my total went under $200, which is why (I think) the book is missing? Or maybe the rest coming in carton C? I contacted them through the Kickstarter message system yesterday, maybe there will be answers soon. Everything looks really great, though. There's a super old-school vibe to the production.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:33
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So still waiting on my DS stuff. When do I start sending pissy emails?
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Dec 2, 2015 20:49
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Thundercloud posted:So still waiting on my DS stuff. When do I start sending pissy emails? If you're in the US, shipping isn't scheduled to finish until the 7th and the shipping company have been slower than expected, so not yet.
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Dec 2, 2015 22:23
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muskets posted:If you're in the US, shipping isn't scheduled to finish until the 7th and the shipping company have been slower than expected, so not yet. Point of order, they were hoping to have everything shipped in order to arrive by the 7th (maybe that's what you meant by the shipping finishing, in which case never mind). That said, if I haven't gotten a shipping e-mail five days out and it's during the holiday shipping season, I'm not holding my breath. 
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Dec 3, 2015 00:21
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muskets posted:If you're in the US, shipping isn't scheduled to finish until the 7th and the shipping company have been slower than expected, so not yet. I'm in the UK though.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:30
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JerryLee posted:Point of order, they were hoping to have everything shipped in order to arrive by the 7th (maybe that's what you meant by the shipping finishing, in which case never mind). Are people even getting shipping notifications? Given my past experiences with Mantic I was just assuming it was just going to show up one day without prior notice. And with only 80 boxes being shipped a day, it's likely the last box won't even go out before Christmas.
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Dec 3, 2015 01:20
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Thundercloud posted:I'm in the UK though. Yeah, OK, they finished shipping UK packages last week, get in touch with them.
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Dec 3, 2015 02:05
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As far as I can tell, Mantic don't "do" shipping notifications. Or tracking. This is really stupid and they need to get with the program, because automated customer notifications and tracking is basically turnkey software available from many vendors, including the major shippers themselves, for really not that much money. The savings in terms of reduced customer service load are good enough that most businesses find paying for order fulfillment software has a positive ROI. Then again, given their lack of email service, maybe Mantic isn't aware that there's a cost there to be saved...
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Dec 3, 2015 02:27
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