Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

«‹›3125 »

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

kustomkarkommando posted:

Iraq cut off salary and pension payments in July.

You can see the two sides of the argument for maintaining payments; on one hand cutting off payments will impoverish civilians in the region, further alienate them from the government and create a potential humanitarian crisis as many would no longer be able to afford food/electricity. On the other hand it cuts off an ISIS revenue stream by denying them funds they raise through taxation.

Without aid going into the areas controlled by ISIS the effects on the civilian population could be pretty dire.

Ah, thanks for the update.

# ? Dec 2, 2015 21:54

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 10, 2024 00:10

Zeroisanumber: Oct 23, 2010; Nap Ghost

The IAEA has concluded that Iran was working on a nuke until at least 2009 and possibly longer

# ? Dec 2, 2015 23:11

ElrondHubbard: Sep 14, 2007

Volkerball posted:

http://eaworldview.com/2015/03/syria-feature-businessman-buying-oil-assad-islamic-state-sanctioned-european-union/

So a blog, citing a translation of a blog interview of a single unnamed former employee advocating deep connections to security services within Russia? It doesn't even reference any current Russian ties outside of initially using licences to establish a Syrian based business and completing some contracts. It's a real stretch to say there's evidence this guy is working for Moscow. If you're going to be skeptical of evidence of Turkish involvement with ISIS (not securing borders, having active refineries processing the oil, convoys heading from ISIS territory into Turkey, etc...), please understand that it is jarring when you turn around and start advocating truther style scenarios involving Russia. Hell, even the article you cite doesn't suggest Russian involvement.

ElrondHubbard fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Dec 2, 2015

# ? Dec 2, 2015 23:24

54.4 crowns: Apr 7, 2011; To think before you speak is like wiping your arse before you shit.

Zeroisanumber posted:

The IAEA has concluded that Iran was working on a nuke until at least 2009 and possibly longer

So they had a Nuclear Doodle?

Remember those other WMDs you were locking for a while back?...you know Enforcing a UN resolution UN never asked you to enforce?

I remember vindication was had, they found 4 mortars and a Row of shells...that was dug down and had their gunk pouring out from over a decade ago.

# ? Dec 2, 2015 23:47

fade5: May 31, 2012; by exmarx

New south Hasakah map:

I think these advances are like 20 or 30 KM beyond the edges of south Hasakah by now, but it's the nearest reference city.

The Peshmerga are getting stuff:
http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/021220153

quote:

ERBIL, Kurdistan Region � A senior Peshmerga official told Rudaw on Wednesday that US heavy weapons for Iraq�s Kurdish forces had arrived in Kuwait and would be delivered to the Kurds in a month.

"The USA decided to give heavy weapons to the Peshmerga,� said Jabar Yawar, chief of staff to the Peshmerga ministry. �The weapons have arrived in Kuwait and in a matter of one month they will be transferred to the Kurdistan region," he said in a television interview.

Yawar, who is leading a Peshmerga delegation to Italy, said the weapons included "heavy artillery, armored vehicles, Humvee and Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected MRAPS."

He also said that the Peshmerga delegation has requested various weapons from Italy.

"In today's meeting with the Italian defense minister, we offered a list of necessary weapons and ammunition to the Italian government," he said. "They showed willingness to provide our necessities."

Since it's a Rudaw link, here's a Kurdish journalist on twitter confirming it:
https://twitter.com/Vagersedolla/status/672154140320137216

quote:

Peshmerga Spokesman:US sent heavy weapons to Peshmerga&will arrive soon,it includes ASV,MRAP, BRV-O &Field Artillery

Finally, construction of the Public Parliament in Rojava in D�rik, Cizire Canton:
https://twitter.com/newworldsummit/status/672097776361218050

quote:

Phase 2 of the construction of the public parliament in #Rojava is finally in full progress! @davidgraeber @Hevallo

"Communalism" and "Gender Equality" right there on the structure in multiple languages. :toot:

# ? Dec 2, 2015 23:54

Ragingsheep: Nov 7, 2009

Interested in seeing what sorta of heavy artillery the US would send. Heavy mortars or actual howitzers.

# ? Dec 2, 2015 23:58

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Aside from Ergodan ordering a full scale invasion to preempt any sort of Kurdistan from being formed, what would be the downside to the Kurds essentially beating Daesh in to the ground and coming out as essentially the leading power in that area?

# ? Dec 3, 2015 00:01

Captain Bravo: Feb 16, 2011; An Emergency Shitpost
has been deployed...

...but experts warn it is
just a drop in the ocean.

Hahaha, awesome! The military finally found a way to get rid of all those drat MRAPS besides selling them to police departments. Considering how heavily daesh likes to lay IEDs, I bet the kurds will really appreciate them, too!

# ? Dec 3, 2015 00:05

Dodoman: Feb 26, 2009; A moment of laxity
A lifetime of regret; Lipstick Apathy

I had no idea the BRV-O existed, has it seen active service anywhere?

# ? Dec 3, 2015 00:12

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Dodoman posted:

I had no idea the BRV-O existed, has it seen active service anywhere?

I was curious about this too. It was a recent prototype, which is great for the Kurds, but I can't imagine that many were made.

General Motors delivered 22 BRV-O prototypes to the US Army for comparative testing. The military may well be sending over all of them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-3-military-vehicles-vying-to-replace-the-humvee-2015-6

Kaal fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Dec 3, 2015

# ? Dec 3, 2015 00:14

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

I'm doubtful of the claim the US is sending heavy weapons directly to the KRG, as opposed to through the central government, as this goes against existing policy and I believe may actually be illegal under current US law (not 100% sure on this one but someone might be able to clear this up). There was a push when the 2016 National Defense Authorization Act was up for voting to add language that would allow the US to send arms directly to the KRG and bypass the Iraqi government, which the Kurds lobbied hard enough for in Washington, which was ultimately defeated with administration backing.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 00:15

fade5: May 31, 2012; by exmarx

Evil Fluffy posted:

Aside from Ergodan ordering a full scale invasion to preempt any sort of Kurdistan from being formed, what would be the downside to the Kurds essentially beating Daesh in to the ground and coming out as essentially the leading power in that area?

There might be a few more issues of forced displacements from villages, unless the YPG has managed to fix that.

Assuming the SDF takes Raqqa, Jarabulus, and maybe pushes to Afrin, exactly who will control Raqqa, Jarabulus, and any non-Kurdish areas long term is a valid question, and a lot of those areas will probably have issues in the future similar to Tal Abyad.

Assad might also have issues with the YPG going fully autonomous (because building a giant Public Parliament pretty much says "nope, we're not going back"), although there's basically not a Syria left anymore anyway.

Other than that, not really a downside; would be really cool to have a place in the Middle East that's pro-Gender Equality with a leftist bent.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 00:20

Dodoman: Feb 26, 2009; A moment of laxity
A lifetime of regret; Lipstick Apathy

Kaal posted:

I was curious about this too. It was a recent prototype, which is great for the Kurds, but I can't imagine that many were made.

General Motors delivered 22 BRV-O prototypes to the US Army for comparative testing. The military may well be sending over all of them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-3-military-vehicles-vying-to-replace-the-humvee-2015-6

Trial by fire then.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 00:28

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

So, how goes the battle for hearts and minds?

quote:

On the front lines of the battle against the Islamic State, suspicion of the United States runs deep. Iraqi fighters say they have all seen the videos purportedly showing U.S. helicopters airdropping weapons to the militants, and many claim they have friends and relatives who have witnessed similar instances of collusion.

Ordinary people also have seen the videos, heard the stories and reached the same conclusion � one that might seem absurd to Americans but is widely believed among Iraqis � that the United States is supporting the Islamic State for a variety of pernicious reasons that have to do with asserting U.S. control over Iraq, the wider Middle East and, perhaps, its oil.

�It is not in doubt,� said Mustafa Saadi, who says his friend saw U.S. helicopters delivering bottled water to Islamic State positions. He is a commander in one of the Shiite militias that last month helped push the militants out of the oil refinery near Baiji in northern Iraq alongside the Iraqi army.

The Islamic State is �almost finished,� he said. �They are weak. If only America would stop supporting them, we could defeat them in days.�

...

�We don�t believe the Americans support Daesh,� said Naseer Nouri, spokesman for the Ministry of Defense, using the Arabic acronym for the Islamic State. �But it is true that most people are saying they do, and they are right to believe that the Americans should be doing much more than they are. It�s because America is so slow that most people believe they are supporting Daesh.�

U.S. warplanes routinely fail to respond to requests for air support because of U.S. rules of engagement that preclude strikes if there is a risk civilians may be hit, he said. According to Warren, that standard frequently is not met. The United States has conducted more than 3,768 strikes in Iraq as of Nov.� 19, according to the U.S. military, and the tempo of strikes has increased lately, U.S. officials say.

But it also appears that the fighters are unaware when they do receive U.S. air support. The U.S. military reported near-daily strikes in support of the offensive to recapture Baiji last month and continues to respond regularly to requests for strikes in the vicinity, Warren said.

The fighters there insist there have been no strikes by the Americans at all. �We�d be better off without them,� said 1st Lt. Murtada Fadl, who is serving with the Iraqi elite forces in Baiji. He said that the only air support had come from the Iraqi air force and that he wishes the government would ask the Russians to replace the Americans.

...

In a part of the world where outcomes are often confused with intentions and regional complexities enable conspiracy theories to thrive, the notion that the United States is colluding with the Islamic State holds a certain logic, according to Mustafa Alani, director of the Dubai-based Gulf Research Center. Most Arabs are too in awe of American might to believe that the United States is deliberately adopting a minimalist approach, he said.

�The reason is that the Americans aren�t doing the job people expect them to do,� he said. �Mosul was lost and the Americans did nothing. Syria was lost and the Americans did nothing. Paris is attacked and the Americans aren�t doing much. So people believe this is a deliberate policy. They can�t believe the American leadership fails to understand the developments in the region, and so the only other explanation is that this is part of a conspiracy.�

On the streets of Baghdad, most Iraqis see no other explanation.

�The image of the U.S. was damaged in the region, so they created Daesh in order to fight them and restore their image,� said Mohammed Abdul Khaleq, a journalist for a local TV station who was drinking coffee in a cafe favored by writers, most of whom said they agreed.

A rare dissenting voice was offered by Hassan Abdul-Wahab, 23, selling luggage in a nearby shop. �It is true that most people believe that,� he said. �But it�s not based on reason. It�s based on racism � because Iraqis don�t like Americans in the first place.�

# ? Dec 3, 2015 00:38

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

quote:

"It�s based on racism � because Iraqis don�t like Americans in the first place.�

Well gee, I wonder why...

# ? Dec 3, 2015 00:48

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

Cat Mattress posted:

Well gee, I wonder why...

Ungrateful... smdh

# ? Dec 3, 2015 00:51

Dodoman: Feb 26, 2009; A moment of laxity
A lifetime of regret; Lipstick Apathy

He's 23 so he would've been 10-11 when USA invaded. All he's known is sectarian violence and a high probability of death, it's surprising he isn't more jaded.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 00:53

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

kustomkarkommando posted:

So, how goes the battle for hearts and minds?

I know it's stupid, but reading this makes me want we could send ground troops, but it's probably be a bad idea. the whole situation fucks me up pretty bad.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 01:03

twerking on the railroad: Jun 23, 2007; Get on my level

Kurtofan posted:

I know it's stupid, but reading this makes me want we could send ground troops, but it's probably be a bad idea. the whole situation fucks me up pretty bad.

Is true that in a pre-W world this is exactly the sort of thing the US would send ground troops in for. But you know how that goes.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 01:15

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

# ? Dec 3, 2015 01:19

Bait and Swatch: Sep 5, 2012; Join me, Comrades
In the Star Citizen D&D thread

Dodoman posted:

Trial by fire then.

Nah, I'm pretty sure that Oshkosh won that contract. With the way defense acquisition works, GM has to provide their prototypes for testing purposes. If the military decides to go with a competing bid, the military still keeps the prototypes afterward. These vehicles are basically dead weight that aren't useful any longer. Can't sell them to anyone either, since there is no training or continuing support for something that is not and will not be in production. Might as well give them to the Kurds.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 01:36

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

LeoMarr posted:

Now post the version from 2003.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 01:45

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Count Roland posted:

Now post the version from 2003.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 01:48

Squalid: Nov 4, 2008

Kurtofan posted:

I know it's stupid, but reading this makes me want we could send ground troops, but it's probably be a bad idea. the whole situation fucks me up pretty bad.

Dear god on earth why? Like... Do you think Iraqis will be less suspicious of the French?

As an American all I take away from this is the absurdity of American officials circa 2006 planning for a long-term occupation. There are very few scenarios in which a long-term American presence would have been possible. Not when all the players hated our guts.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 01:57

Savy Saracen salad: Oct 15, 2013

So what does everyone think of the Kurds ganging up with Russia +Assad+ ISIS to beat on the rebels in North Aleppo? Are the kurds still considered the good guys or are they being exposed as the ethnic supremacists that they are?

# ? Dec 3, 2015 02:48

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Savy Saracen salad posted:

So what does everyone think of the Kurds ganging up with Russia +Assad+ ISIS to beat on the rebels in North Aleppo? Are the kurds still considered the good guys or are they being exposed as the ethnic supremacists that they are?

I think it's a bullshit false claim.

I can see why the Kurds could be accused of working with the regime (since they aren't fighting it directly), but ganging up with ISIS is a stupid accusation. The Kurds are about the only ones who are actually fighting Daesh.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 02:59

fade5: May 31, 2012; by exmarx

https://twitter.com/jackshahine/status/672208068143370240

quote:

#BREAKING #US special forces entered #Rojava, N #Syria tonight. #TwitterKurds

It ~~begins~~ continues.

Guess we'll have to watch and see if any advances start in the next few days.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 03:00

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

fade5 posted:

https://twitter.com/jackshahine/status/672208068143370240

It ~~begins~~ continues.

Guess we'll have to watch and see if any advances start in the next few days.

A little bird told me Jarabulus.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 04:13

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

Dusty Baker 2 posted:

A little bird told me Jarabulus.

Isn't that on the Turkish bord... Oh...

# ? Dec 3, 2015 04:16

fade5: May 31, 2012; by exmarx

my dad posted:

Isn't that on the Turkish bord... Oh...

The US is officially tired of Turkey's loving around, and it looks like shooting down the Russian plane was the last straw.

I'm not sure when we stopped giving a gently caress and decided backing the socialists while telling Turkey to suck it was a good idea, but I approve.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 04:23

goose willis: Jun 14, 2015; Get ready for teh wacky laughz0r!

I can only imagine how livid Turkey would be if an independent Kurdish state arose, was recognized internationally, and then joined NATO.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 05:12

ElrondHubbard: Sep 14, 2007

Savy Saracen salad posted:

So what does everyone think of the Kurds ganging up with Russia +Assad+ ISIS to beat on the rebels in North Aleppo? Are the kurds still considered the good guys or are they being exposed as the ethnic supremacists that they are?

Why would anyone care? A good chunk of Syrian rebels have a tendency to be genocidal islamists who have some very ugly plans for minority groups in the region and the rebels themselves don't always recognize the Kurds as anything other than enemies to be fought after Assad.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 05:24

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

fade5 posted:

I'm not sure when we stopped giving a gently caress and decided backing the socialists while telling Turkey to suck it was a good idea, but I approve.

When Obama realized that continuing to refuse to do so would lose Hillary the election, that's when.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 06:00

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Leomarr's posts make me think of Samuel L Jackson's character freaking the hell out about Django being on a horse.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 07:40

Cirofren: Jun 13, 2005; Pillbug

A mobile MSF mobile clinic was bombed in Yemen on Wednesday, on Monday a MSF hospital in northern Homms copped a double barrel bombing.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 07:40

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

Cirofren posted:

A mobile MSF mobile clinic was bombed in Yemen on Wednesday, on Monday a MSF hospital in northern Homms copped a double barrel bombing.

Martyres Sans Fronti�res

# ? Dec 3, 2015 07:43

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Cirofren posted:

A mobile MSF mobile clinic was bombed in Yemen on Wednesday, on Monday a MSF hospital in northern Homms copped a double barrel bombing.

Munitiins sans Frontieres.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 07:44

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

Squalid posted:

Dear god on earth why? Like... Do you think Iraqis will be less suspicious of the French?

As an American all I take away from this is the absurdity of American officials circa 2006 planning for a long-term occupation. There are very few scenarios in which a long-term American presence would have been possible. Not when all the players hated our guts.

By we I meant the coalition.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 08:26

Jack2142: Jul 17, 2014; Shitposting in Seattle

Cirofren posted:

A mobile MSF mobile clinic was bombed in Yemen on Wednesday, on Monday a MSF hospital in northern Homms copped a double barrel bombing.

Based off of all the recent airstrikes did someone accidentally put MSF on a terrorist watch list?

my dad posted:

Martyres Sans Fronti�res

Hah knew they were terrorists!

Seriously though the MSF does alot of good work however the people on the ground are loving insane, so many of these volunteers end up dying which I guess is commendable, but also really sad.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 09:10

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 10, 2024 00:10

CeeJee: Dec 4, 2001; Oven Wrangler

Cirofren posted:

A mobile MSF mobile clinic was bombed in Yemen on Wednesday, on Monday a MSF hospital in northern Homms copped a double barrel bombing.

Syrian Army press release: All lies, it's impossible for us to have targeted the hospital, we can barely hit Homs with barrels shoved out the back of a high flying helicopter.

# ? Dec 3, 2015 09:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

«‹›3125 »