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McDowell posted:This guy's wife was a recent immigrant - she might have convinced him to start planning something. It was years ago, but was the killdozer incident actually ruled as terrorism? It sounds hosed up, but that's what the combination workplace grievance / terrorizing the town thing made me think of. Probably because I am a goon
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Dec 5, 2015 02:06
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Antti posted:Can you walk into a store in any state in the US and buy dynamite without any background checks or licensing? Honest question. Not dynamite, but enjoy! http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/vendor/vendorId/39
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Dec 5, 2015 02:08
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EXTREME INSERTION posted:was the killdozer incident actually ruled as terrorism? I'm not sure, but a quick look at the wiki gave this nugget "God built me for this job", Heemeyer said in the first recording. He also said it was God's plan that he not be married or have a family so that he could be in a position to carry out such an attack. "I think God will bless me to get the machine done, to drive it, to do the stuff that I have to do", he said. "God blessed me in advance for the task that I am about to undertake. It is my duty. God has asked me to do this. It's a cross that I am going to carry and I'm carrying it in God's name."
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Dec 5, 2015 02:09
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EXTREME INSERTION posted:So it's legal for someone to buy an apartment full of weapons and ammo for personal reasons and not be on any kind of list. Super But it's super illegal to stockpile fertilizer
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Dec 5, 2015 02:11
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EXTREME INSERTION posted:Okay- the guns are legal, the magazines are not legal, and body armor would also be theoretically illegal the magazines are not legal in California (though entirely legal in the vast majority of the U.S., and not exactly super hard to convert illegally with materials available in California if you were planning an attack), the guns were not legal in California because of the way California treats guns with detachable magazines (though again, easy conversion), but body armor is perfectly legal even within California (unless he was a felon)
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Dec 5, 2015 02:14
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As was relayed to me by a Department of Wildlife and Fisheries agent I worked with who blew up beaver damns as part of his job, the two components of his explosives used for the job were easy to buy; the sticking point was that detonating devices were strictly controlled. That might just be Louisiana though. As for gun ownership in the US, most people I know are either in the "one, just in case" group or the "addicted hobbyist" group, who happen to collect a big variety of guns instead of model trains or RC cars or whatnot. The survival seed and gold buying weirdo types are part of the second group with an obsessive, paranoid version of the first's motivation.
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Dec 5, 2015 02:23
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Keep in mind that the bombs they built didn't actually work.
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Dec 5, 2015 02:24
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That's seems to be a theme. Don't bother with bombs unless your name is Ted Kaczynski. Wasn't he a genius turned schizophrenic though? Of course his would work.
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Dec 5, 2015 02:27
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I think making bombs is hard E. And now I am probably on a list
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Dec 5, 2015 02:28
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EXTREME INSERTION posted:I think making bombs is hard Also if you gently caress up building a bomb, you're probably dead. Guns are much safer in that regard.
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Dec 5, 2015 02:29
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I thought huge like
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Dec 5, 2015 02:29
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Dr. Red Ranger posted:That's seems to be a theme. Don't bother with bombs unless your name is Ted Kaczynski. Wasn't he a genius turned schizophrenic though? Of course his would work. Yeah, he was doing math on such a high level that maybe a few dozen people in the world could even understand it.
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Dec 5, 2015 02:31
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Hollismason posted:I thought huge like clipazines, please, you're revealing the depth of your ignorance on the subject
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Dec 5, 2015 02:31
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Epic High Five posted:clipazines, please, you're revealing the depth of your ignorance on the subject please everyone knows they're referred to as b'zones now
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Dec 5, 2015 02:33
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Hollismason posted:I thought huge like Arizona is not that far. Or Nevada.
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Dec 5, 2015 02:38
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The Aardvark posted:Arizona is not that far. Or Nevada. And I presume it works just like it does when a state which bans fireworks borders one that does not - a whole bunch of stores spring up right over the border selling anything you could possibly want.
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Dec 5, 2015 02:47
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So is it actually controversial to say that people who go on mass shooting sprees are mentally ill? I mean its not an excuse for someone's action but it can be an explanation for why they did it somewhat. I just struggle to see another reason someone would think that killing a bunch of civilians is okay.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:14
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Internet Kraken posted:So is it actually controversial to say that people who go on mass shooting sprees are mentally ill? I mean its not an excuse for someone's action but it can be an explanation for why they did it somewhat. I just struggle to see another reason someone would think that killing a bunch of civilians is okay.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:18
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There's also the fact that "mentally Ill" is so vague that it can/does mean anything.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:19
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Samurai Sanders posted:If that word is thrown around haphazardly for whenever someone does a bad thing, it increases the stigma for mentally ill people and makes them less likely to seek treatment. And furthermore it is used tactically to minimize the hateful terrorism of white males and dissociates the cultural responsibility of the conservative movement. Black person is violent: "They come from a culture of gangs and broken families." Muslim is violent: "Radical Islam is infiltrating our great country!" White person is violent: "Well, he clearly had mental problems and no radical motivations whatsoever. He was a gentle giant who planted lilies and served soup at the shelter, right up until that moment he wasted 40 third-graders."
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Dec 5, 2015 03:22
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Also, at some point you're going to run into the problem of where religious fervor ends and mental illness starts, and no one really wants to talk about that.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:22
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Internet Kraken posted:So is it actually controversial to say that people who go on mass shooting sprees are mentally ill? I mean its not an excuse for someone's action but it can be an explanation for why they did it somewhat. I just struggle to see another reason someone would think that killing a bunch of civilians is okay. It's not very helpful, at the least. It also equates a nebulous "mental illness" with homicidal violence, and can possibly lead to more violent responses by police if they need to deal with a known "mentally ill" individual. It paints a large portion of the most vulnerable people as "good shots" especially in regards to police response against the homeless.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:26
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Samurai Sanders posted:Also, at some point you're going to run into the problem of where religious fervor ends and mental illness starts, and no one really wants to talk about that. Some may posit that it begins the moment you believe a bearded sky man created an entire universe in 7 days...but that's an uphill battle in this puritanical shithole country.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:29
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Internet Kraken posted:So is it actually controversial to say that people who go on mass shooting sprees are mentally ill? I mean its not an excuse for someone's action but it can be an explanation for why they did it somewhat. I just struggle to see another reason someone would think that killing a bunch of civilians is okay. Yes, because while mental illness can lead to bad decisions, someone can be depressingly sane and make even worse decisions.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:31
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Mulva posted:No, there is never a reason to radicalize and start killing people indiscriminately. It does a disservice to everyone who has affected change in non-violent means to say that violent extremists are just doing the same thing. Correct. But that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that harassment and hatred will breed hatred. There exists a line these two crossed in how they expressed their hatred. Like you said, murder is never acceptable, and they actions should be condemned in the strongest possible terms. But it is also possible to acknowledge that harassment may well have played a role in escalating the situation, the same way that there are a myriad of issues related to Middle East interventionism that escalated the Syrian situation to the point that Daesh now exists. They are to blame for the horrors they bring, but there is a chain of events such that cooler/wiser heads prevailing at any one of those steps would have averted the disaster over there. It is the same with this situation: there is quite possibly a chain of events relating to how Islamophobic opinions were expressed that led to the shooting happening. Had those events been defused successfully, it is less likely that this would have happened. This man was not to blame for the shooting, but he quite possibly played a role in creating the conditions for it to happen. And for that we can be sad, and called for tolerance and understanding among all parties involved that would have avoided creating those conditions. We can and should reserve disdain for the odious opinions that created these toxic environments without stating that the ends are justified, and we can do this while respecting their right to speak. EDIT: Now try convincing your Republican uncle the same thing. ComradeCosmobot fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 03:31
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The Saturday edition of the New York Times will feature this editorial on gun violence on the front page. It is the first time the paper has run an editorial on the front page since 1920.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:34
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Hollismason posted:I thought huge like Shifty Pony posted:And I presume it works just like it does when a state which bans fireworks borders one that does not - a whole bunch of stores spring up right over the border selling anything you could possibly want. It is not illegal in California to possess or use (in a handgun) a "Large capacity magazine" ie one that has a more than 10 round capacity. It is illegal sell, build, import, or receive them. There is a nice summary of CA magazine rules here. Still, not like there are customs inspections between states so anyone willing to risk the jail time can easily bring them across the border. However, once you put that 11+ magazine into a semi-automatic centerfire rifle then it is illegal because you just created an assault weapon and are now a felon. If their rifles were equipped with bullet buttons it may have slowed down their reloading, but it's also not difficult to remove it and put a regular magazine release (also illegal in CA). Tubesock fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 03:37
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The 1920 editorial, in case you were curious, was about what a dumb idea it was for the Republicans to nominate Warren G. Harding.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:37
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LeeMajors posted:Some may posit that it begins the moment you believe a bearded sky man created an entire universe in 7 days...but that's an uphill battle in this puritanical shithole country.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:42
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Planned Parenthood shooter was good because he shot up a PP, but bad because he killed cops SB shooter was bad because he's MOOSELIM, but good because most of the people he killed were union Man, tough week of conundrums for the right, which of their core tenants do they value the most? real sophie's choice here
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Dec 5, 2015 03:47
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yes...this is the conversation that no one wants to have, in America anyway. My Facebook friends are like 95% liberal and non-religious but there is no way I could express this idea that would not resort in the biggest online shitstorm I would have ever been a party to. Of course not. It's easier to accept a fable that promises eternal life than to accept that this life is all we have. It's perplexing (and disappointing) how attractive this prospect is to even incredibly rational people--and how often I have to withhold my atheist opinions to avoid discrimination from the southern christian majority.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:47
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lol Pataki try so hard  https://twitter.com/GovernorPataki/status/672917318482190336 Sell your soul, still can't get 1% at the polls
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Dec 5, 2015 03:47
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Fun fact: under Pataki, the NY state police had a helicopter shot down over enemy territory. If you visit the Akwesasne Mohawk Casino you'll see a banner over the road celebrating this victory on the way in.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:51
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Dr. Red Ranger posted:That's seems to be a theme. Don't bother with bombs unless your name is Ted Kaczynski. Wasn't he a genius turned schizophrenic though? Of course his would work. He was a child prodigy who went to Harvard at 16, got a PhD, and taught at Berkeley. He was pretty smart. I don't think he was schizophrenic though.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:54
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Joementum posted:Fun fact: under Pataki, the NY state police had a helicopter shot down over enemy territory. If you visit the Akwesasne Mohawk Casino you'll see a banner over the road celebrating this victory on the way in. Wait, seriously?
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Dec 5, 2015 03:56
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EXTREME INSERTION posted:So it's legal for someone to buy an apartment full of weapons and ammo for personal reasons and not be on any kind of list. Super Even better: there is no restrictions for people on terrorist watch lists from buying guns. More like the US of NRA. Joementum posted:The Saturday edition of the New York Times will feature this editorial on gun violence on the front page. It is the first time the paper has run an editorial on the front page since 1920. Huh. Funny that NYT is the first paper to endorse Hilary Clinton.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:59
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:Wait, seriously? Yeah, IIRC they were not happy that he tried to enforce a deal to extract taxes on gas and tobacco sales. The banner might not be there any more, I haven't been in a few years.
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Dec 5, 2015 04:03
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Joementum posted:Yeah, IIRC they were not happy that he tried to enforce a deal to extract taxes on gas and tobacco sales. The banner might not be there any more, I haven't been in a few years. Can you link to any sources? I just did some cursory poking around and I can't find anything talking about it.
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Dec 5, 2015 04:10
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Internet Webguy posted:Even better: there is no restrictions for people on terrorist watch lists from buying guns. More like the US of NRA. You can't deny someone their Second Amendment rights just because they're a terrorist! That would be terroristist.
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Dec 5, 2015 04:11
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Greatbacon posted:Can you link to any sources? I just did some cursory poking around and I can't find anything talking about it. Sorry. This poo poo is all like 20 years old and most of it is behind walls that Google can't access now.
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Dec 5, 2015 04:12
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