|
DeusExMachinima posted:How do you feel about goon hero da Bern dropping trou and spraying liquid poo poo all over the 5th and 14th Amendments, Literally The Worst? It won't inconvenience me, a white person. I think full communism is worth it.
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 05:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:19 |
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:How do you feel about goon hero da Bern dropping trou and spraying liquid poo poo all over the 5th and 14th Amendments, Literally The Worst? Joementum posted on just the last page I believe that the current iteration of the no-fly-no-gun thing allows the would-be purchaser to appeal the decision. You're getting your due process and furthermore I actually don't care about creeping incrementalism in rolling back gun rights. Edit: repeal the second amendment while we're at it
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:09
|
|
|
I'm not allowed to shout fire in a crowded theater or advocate for overthrowing the government but God help us if one person on the no fly list can't buy a .357.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:11
|
|
|
Do white people (or black people for that matter) ever get on the no fly list?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:14
|
|
|
My unimportant opinion is that if background checks actually did what they theoretically were supposed to, and were applied to say, everyone. There wouldn't be any constitutional concerns. Also we should have levels of gun expertise and the more you're an expert the increasing complexity of the firearms you own are. So for example if you're an advocate for the 2nd amendment based on your technical expertise of firearms, you should only be able to wield smart guns and 1900's style crew artillery. I have now solved America 
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:17
|
|
|
With 11 months to go, 538 has debuted A fun little slider that will torment us as we attempt to unskew the demographics in denial of the coming GOPocalypse. Here's mine. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:21
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:Do white people (or black people for that matter) ever get on the no fly list? Some people have been put on it in the past for being political advocates of one cause or another. Mind you, said cause could be something as simple as "is a journalist and wrote an article about an unaddressed unethical activity taking place in ____ war the US is involved in". I recall a few journalists blasting the process of who gets on the list and how during what I think was the Bush administration's years because of the no-fly list being used to harass them when traveling and/or make it difficult for them to travel and do their jobs. That alone is enough to make me think that it'd only take one bad administration to abuse the hell out of access to gun rights by using it as a political prop. Using it as a metric of anything other than what it was intended for is honestly a pretty stupid idea. It's way too abusable as it is. Archonex fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Dec 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:22
|
|
|
stinkles1112 posted:Joementum posted on just the last page I believe that the current iteration of the no-fly-no-gun thing allows the would-be purchaser to appeal the decision. You're getting your due process and furthermore I actually don't care about creeping incrementalism in rolling back gun rights. It would be weird if this actually led to more oversight and attention paid to the no-fly list
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:22
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:Do white people (or black people for that matter) ever get on the no fly list? Yes, especially if they're Muslim.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:23
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:With 11 months to go, 538 has debuted A fun little slider that will torment us as we attempt to unskew the demographics in denial of the coming GOPocalypse.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:45
|
|
|
stinkles1112 posted:Joementum posted on just the last page I believe that the current iteration of the no-fly-no-gun thing allows the would-be purchaser to appeal the decision. You're getting your due process and furthermore I actually don't care about creeping incrementalism in rolling back gun rights. Due process doesn't mean there is a process to get off the list.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:49
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:With 11 months to go, 538 has debuted A fun little slider that will torment us as we attempt to unskew the demographics in denial of the coming GOPocalypse. Their article specifically calls out how it would only take a 3 point swing to break the "Democratic firewall" and let Republicans sweep Colorado, Florida, Iowa, New Hampshire, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Wisconsin, and how critical keeping African Americans as motivated for Hillary as they were for Obama is. And given that the Fed will almost certainly announce that they are raising rates when they meet in 10 days, possibly jeopardizing the state of the economy going into an election year (remember: the mean time between recessions in the post-war period is 67 months. We are currently in month 78.), and that it is often the state of the economy 3-6 months before the election, not foreign policy, that decides that election, and well... Hillary's chances start looking a lot closer to 60-40 than 90-10. She's got a built-in advantage, yes, but it's not exactly Hillary's election to lose. She still has to win it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:50
|
|
|
ComradeCosmobot posted:Their article specifically calls out how it would only take a 3 point swing to break the "Democratic firewall" and let Republicans sweep Colorado, Florida, Iowa, New Hampshire, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Wisconsin, and how critical keeping African Americans as motivated for Hillary as they were for Obama is. It's specifically a 3 point swing for all minority demographics and it's really dumb to think why they would swing towards the GOP. Actually it's not even a 3 point swing for minority demographics, it's assuming that literally everyone swings 3 extra points for no reason.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:53
|
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:How do you feel about goon hero da Bern dropping trou and spraying liquid poo poo all over the 5th and 14th Amendments, Literally The Worst? i think goons are idiots for thinking bernie has a chance in hell so you tryin to get in a sick burn like "heh look at your hero" just makes you look like a jackass, forums poster dumbshit mcdouchebag
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:56
|
|
|
ComradeCosmobot posted:Their article specifically calls out how it would only take a 3 point swing to break the "Democratic firewall" and let Republicans sweep Colorado, Florida, Iowa, New Hampshire, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Wisconsin, and how critical keeping African Americans as motivated for Hillary as they were for Obama is. On the one hand this, but on the other if Trump is the nominee you'll also see a fairly sizable increase in not only Hispanics going to the polls but also voting democratic.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 06:58
|
|
|
stinkles1112 posted:Joementum posted on just the last page I believe that the current iteration of the no-fly-no-gun thing allows the would-be purchaser to appeal the decision. You're getting your due process and furthermore I actually don't care about creeping incrementalism in rolling back gun rights. Well at least your attitude towards the 5th and 14th matches your stance on the 2nd, congrats on being consistent! blue squares posted:Due process doesn't mean there is a process to get off the list. blue squares posted:Due process doesn't mean there is a process to get off the list. blue squares posted:Due process doesn't mean there is a process to get off the list.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:01
|
|
This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
|
ComradeCosmobot posted:Their article specifically calls out how it would only take a 3 point swing to break the "Democratic firewall" and let Republicans sweep Colorado, Florida, Iowa, New Hampshire, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Wisconsin, and how critical keeping African Americans as motivated for Hillary as they were for Obama is. You're a dummy. The economy isn't going to be jeopardized by the fed raising rates - if anything, it'd be jeopardized by continuing the free money faucet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:10
|
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:Well at least your attitude towards the 5th and 14th matches your stance on the 2nd, congrats on being consistent! hmmm yes you have surely cited a bunch of people saying the list's existence is good
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:12
|
|
|
Shut up, Meg. Also the no fly list sucks and should go away.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:13
|
|
|
Literally The Worst posted:hmmm yes you have surely cited a bunch of people saying the list's existence is good what?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:23
|
|
|
computer parts posted:It's specifically a 3 point swing for all minority demographics and it's really dumb to think why they would swing towards the GOP. Muslim fear could do the trick.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:25
|
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:what? Nobody is defending the existence of the no-fly list. But it's a fine metric to use for additional scrutiny in gun purchases, because anything is, because we should restrict gun rights generally.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:30
|
|
|
stinkles1112 posted:Nobody is defending the existence of the no-fly list. But it's a fine metric to use for additional scrutiny in gun purchases, because anything is, because we should restrict gun rights generally. If you think it's a fine metric to use, you're by definition justifying its existence.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:31
|
|
|
I mean Hitler is bad, but if we have to keep him around, we might as well let him make the trains run on time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:33
|
|
|
computer parts posted:If you think it's a fine metric to use, you're by definition justifying its existence. Let's just put everybody on the no-fly list, then make that make it harder to purchase weapons, then get rid of the part where you're not allowed to fly.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:33
|
|
|
stinkles1112 posted:Let's just put everybody on the no-fly list, then make that make it harder to purchase weapons, then get rid of the part where you're not allowed to fly. I preferred my compromise in DaDchat about converting the airports into high speed rail hubs.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:34
|
|
|
The Terror no-Fly list is good even if it only prevents 1 terrorists and needlessly restricts travel to 9 million other people
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:35
|
|
|
Meg From Family Guy posted:The Terror no-Fly list is good even if it only prevents 1 terrorists and needlessly restricts travel to 9 million other people Shut up Greg
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:39
|
|
|
the no fly list is fruit of a poisoned tree. it started (and in some ways remains) as just stupid security theater to convince people it was safe to fly!!!! get that economy rollin again!!! but the idea of a central watch-list for terrorism risks is not a bad one, and it makes sense that it should be an auto-fail for buying guns. We should just stop pretending that the no-fly list is anything but that, and i include legally pretending in that definition - the government has argued that the list is acceptable because not flying is not that big a deal. (So they're not okay to fly but they're fine to bring a bomb on a train?). Adding gun purchases to the ban list would immediately force the no fly list to be justified on grounds other than 'it's not that big of a deal'. IMO the main problems with the list as constituted are difficulty getting off the list and the inability to face your accuser. All the government has to do is say 'we can't tell you why you're on the list because NATIONAL SECURITY' and your lawsuit goes nowhere.... sadly Obama left that on the agenda so eh.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:54
|
|
|
computer parts posted:If you think it's a fine metric to use, you're by definition justifying its existence. No, he just wants it to be used selectively when he's OK with it to get at habits he doesn't like. Totally different. But I think we can compromise on this. We just change the name of the no-fly list to the people who are in jail for terrorism list, then change the way you get on/off it into a trial by a jury of your peers. I can live with that list.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 07:54
|
|
|
What do you do about some guy who flew to Syria and joined ISIS and is now flying back? //is the no fly list the appropriate place to have that guys name? You can't have convicted him of something~~
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 08:00
|
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:No, he just wants it to be used selectively when he's OK with it to get at habits he doesn't like. Totally different. But I think we can compromise on this. We just change the name of the no-fly list to the people who are in jail for terrorism list, then change the way you get on/off it into a trial by a jury of your peers. I can live with that list. Hahaha yeah "habits" like violence My point is that I frankly don't care if some legal grey area is meandered into in service of the noble cause of breaking America's awful gun culture. "Due process" does not mean and is not equivalent to "trial by jury" sit on my Facebook fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Dec 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 08:04
|
|
|
stinkles1112 posted:legal grey area Now that we've covered all manner of sin.... this is an awful road to go down. Should freedom of association be controlled by similar means? What of Miranda? If this is kosher, surely the 14th can also be revoked at the whims of an executive order. It's cool though, we had a legal grey area to break up gun culture, and all that happened was you were stripped from the voter rolls if you've tweeted #BlackLivesMatter once the GOP took back the white house. Also really, break up gun culture? I'd love to know how what percentage of purchases you think will be hampered by this. Seriously, we're so desperate for any gun legislation that we'll jump onto expanding the worst violation of civil liberties in decades in order to make infinitesimal changes? If we're meandering into legal grey areas, at least do something useful. Force the CDC to disregard congressional orders and study gun violence. Mandate that sheriffs and police departments register all guns in their jurisdiction before they receive further government military surplus. Hell, even mine the data ~we haven't been collecting about Americans~ and create a model for likely gun ownership based on purchases, forumspostings and gun range visits. I'm all for loving up Gun Culture. This doesn't do that. To go back to the heady 2008 days of 12th dimensional chess-is it possible that Obama wanted to get rid of the No Fly List before he left office but terror attacks made that untenable, so he's going about it this way?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 08:28
|
|
|
Geoff Peterson posted:What of Miranda? Haha Miranda is being whittled away one SCOTUS decision at a time dude. Also the executive branch can literally suspend Miranda for national security concerns (like they did with the Boston bomber)
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 08:45
|
|
|
Jagchosis posted:Also the executive branch can literally suspend Miranda for national security concerns (like they did with the Boston bomber) Well aware-though at this stage the "national security concerns" still require a specific and individual action from the executive. I don't think it's a stretch to imagine this list-if expanded to guns-being expanded further in the future. To Miranda, or absentee ballots, or early voting. All of which are future risks we could discuss and weigh out against present gain-if there was any actual present gain to be had from this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 09:06
|
|
|
My main concern with using the no fly list is that this Supreme Court says that your right to own a gun is on the same level as your right to free speech. Or to be represented by an attorney or your right to a trial by jury. That means that an arbitrary list with a superficial placement process that denies you one of those rights is scary. We need to repeal the 2nd amendment to decouple but good luck with that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 09:24
|
|
|
ComradeCosmobot posted:Their article specifically calls out how it would only take a 3 point swing to break the "Democratic firewall" and let Republicans sweep Colorado, Florida, Iowa, New Hampshire, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Wisconsin, and how critical keeping African Americans as motivated for Hillary as they were for Obama is. This is true, but the time between recessions is usually longer if the recession is particularly bad. I wouldn't be shocked if we avoided one all the way through the election.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 09:45
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:My main concern with using the no fly list is that this Supreme Court says that your right to own a gun is on the same level as your right to free speech. Or to be represented by an attorney or your right to a trial by jury. That means that an arbitrary list with a superficial placement process that denies you one of those rights is scary. It is way more complicated than that
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 10:05
|
|
|
I watched the "Dean scream" for the first time today. It didn't really seem all that bad. That sunk a campaign?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 11:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:19 |
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:I watched the "Dean scream" for the first time today. He was already on a doomed trajectory that just made his campaign a joke
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2015 11:35
|
|