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sudo rm -rf posted:They were routinely brokered before the modern primary system. For instance, here are the ballot totals for the 1920 Republican National Convention 
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Dec 10, 2015 22:58
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CalmDownMate posted:It happened during the last time this happened why would it not happen again.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:58
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fishmech posted:That's not a brokered convention, that's just any convention without a majority. It becomes a brokered convention once the first couple of rounds end with no winners, and serious horse-trading stuff needs to be done. And the horse trading can't happen any more because none of the delegates owe anything to their state chairs.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:58
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sudo rm -rf posted:For instance, here are the ballot totals for the 1920 Republican National Convention This was like the most brokered of all brokerings, though right?
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Dec 10, 2015 22:59
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Paradoxish posted:Yeah, this is almost too insane to be real and the timing is just... what the gently caress? This isn't some lunatic fringe candidate like Ron Paul. This is a guy who's currently polling at 35% nationally and literally dominating the news cycle. What on Earth is the actual goal here? If they goad Trump into a third-party run now it's going to be the only thing anyone is going to talk about and the GOP is going to look like a party that's coming apart at the seams. There's no way something like that doesn't have serious downticket effects. If they can goad Trump into a third party run now they can hope he flames out on his own without taking the rest of the GOP down with him. If they wait until the convention and make it look like they are overturning the will of the primary voters they will quite likely face violent retaliation.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:59
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I've never followed primaries very closely before now, so what, exactly, does brokering a convention actually entail?
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Dec 10, 2015 22:59
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readingatwork posted:I foresee people dying if this actually plays out. Not even kidding.  Lets be honest, none of us here like the Tea party, and plenty of us want the nation to see them as the violent thugs they are. A convention that is like 68 with them as the yippies is great.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:00
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zoux posted:This was like the most brokered of all brokerings, though right? I'm not sure, that one popped into my head because it was highlighted in the first season of Boardwalk Empire.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:00
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Joementum posted:Pelosi is introducing the no-guns-for-terrorists discharge petition on the House floor right now. Speaker Pro Tem Womack rules the motion out of order as a resolution expressing the sense of the House is not privileged. McCarthy moves to table the motion, which passes by a voice vote. Pelosi requests a recorded vote on the motion to table which is happening now.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:01
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I think all the Trump talk has finally broken my brain. I need to take a break from daily Trump updates because the constantly escalating series of Trump-isms is making me just plain sad.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:01
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Paradoxish posted:Yeah, this is almost too insane to be real and the timing is just... what the gently caress? This isn't some lunatic fringe candidate like Ron Paul. This is a guy who's currently polling at 35% nationally and literally dominating the news cycle. What on Earth is the actual goal here? If they goad Trump into a third-party run now it's going to be the only thing anyone is going to talk about and the GOP is going to look like a party that's coming apart at the seams. There's no way something like that doesn't have serious downticket effects. I feel like there have to be a lot of long-standing GOP heads and (especially) members of the business wing that don't want to be part of Trump's extreme racism. The Muslim ban has turned off a lot of people everywhere, despite garnering a frightening amount of support. The adults in the room have reached their limit, and I think they're ready to make sacrifices to hang onto what principles they do have.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:01
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Paradoxish posted:Yeah, this is almost too insane to be real and the timing is just... what the gently caress? This isn't some lunatic fringe candidate like Ron Paul. This is a guy who's currently polling at 35% nationally and literally dominating the news cycle. What on Earth is the actual goal here? If they goad Trump into a third-party run now it's going to be the only thing anyone is going to talk about and the GOP is going to look like a party that's coming apart at the seams. There's no way something like that doesn't have serious downticket effects. He's polling at 35% among the base.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:03
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AmericanBarbarian posted:I think all the Trump talk has finally broken my brain. I need to take a break from daily Trump updates because the constantly escalating series of Trump-isms is making me just plain sad. How much trump would a Trump trump trump if a Trump trump would trump Trump?
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Dec 10, 2015 23:03
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JT Jag posted:RIP, the Whig party. Killed by slavery. Actually I was thinking more of 1968
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Dec 10, 2015 23:04
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Joementum posted:Pelosi is introducing the no-guns-for-terrorists discharge petition on the House floor right now. They should add a rider that gives the government explicit and total surveillance rights over anyone on the watch list too
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Dec 10, 2015 23:04
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JT Jag posted:RIP, the Whig party. Killed by slavery.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:04
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Who What Now posted:I've never followed primaries very closely before now, so what, exactly, does brokering a convention actually entail? How the convention works: Round one: any candidate still in the race with pledged delegates may be placed in nomination. Three delegates from each state are automatically unpledged. Any delegates pledged to a candidate who has dropped out are unpledged. Starting with Alabama, and proceeding alphabetically, each state delegation reports the votes of their delegates. A state may "pass" and will still vote in the first round after the other states report. If no candidate receives a majority of the votes in the first round, all delegates become unpledged. There is a call for nominations at which point any name may be placed in nomination if there's a second to the nomination. Then the voting is repeated until a candidate receives a majority. This described a deadlocked convention. There can't really be a brokered convention any more because the delegates are no longer selected by the state party chairs. It used to be that a state's delegation was mostly made up of the political machine in that state, so the state chair could tell his delegation how to vote because they owed him their jobs back home. This let the campaigns bargain with the chairmen to get deals for support. Nowadays (and in the 1976 deadlocked RNC) the delegates are chosen by the campaigns or by voters and don't owe anyone anything, so the campaigns need to bargain with 1500+ individuals.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:05
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I'm privileged to live in the end times of American democracy.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:06
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Who What Now posted:I've never followed primaries very closely before now, so what, exactly, does brokering a convention actually entail? Primaries and caucuses will lock in delegates to a single candidate for one round of balloting. If there is no clear majority they are freed and allowed to vote as they want. After a few rounds of no winner, candidates start brokering political promises for delegates, etc. This was easier pre-primaries when Conventions had actual state political machines that could whip delegates into cohesive voting blocs State political machines have mostly died out so no one's really sure what's going to happen, other than probably igniting a schism.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:06
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Joementum posted:How the convention works: So how does the RNC force a deadlocked convention?
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Dec 10, 2015 23:07
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Luigi Thirty posted:Depends if you're asking Republicans, GIP or normal people From 6 pages ago, but only saw one answer. GIP consensus was it was good swap. When you invade a foreign land you dont leave anybody behind when you can get them back. No, it doesnt matter that he was a useless chucklefuck. War is dirty enough. After we dehumanize the ragwearing, boyfucking muzzies the thought of one of our own being held by them is offensive. You dont do a cost-benefit analysis on the value of a soldier being held hostage. You work to get that person back, then figgure out what to do with Bhergdal when he is safely back in US custody. Imagine you are some 23 year old servicemember and you got got by the taliban. Your only is the folks back on base have a plan to get you before you get an Afghan hair cut on film The Taliban Five were a bargaining chip and we cashed them in. I wish I could find the shim post that put this in the most emotional terms possible,
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Dec 10, 2015 23:07
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Zombie Samurai posted:I feel like there have to be a lot of long-standing GOP heads and (especially) members of the business wing that don't want to be part of Trump's extreme racism. Also, like, 65% of republicans
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Dec 10, 2015 23:07
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Zombie Samurai posted:I feel like there have to be a lot of long-standing GOP heads and (especially) members of the business wing that don't want to be part of Trump's extreme racism. The Muslim ban has turned off a lot of people everywhere, despite garnering a frightening amount of support. The adults in the room have reached their limit, and I think they're ready to make sacrifices to hang onto what principles they do have. Yeah, they don't exist anymore or don't draw enough water to do poo poo. If they could kill the Tea Party they'd have done it ages ago. We've been waiting for these mythical business Republicans to rear up and crush the Tea Party since like 2010. Hell, poster CalmDownMate helpfully posted an article from 2012 saying that now, finally, the Tea Party was on its last legs, which proves my point rather elegantly. I personally think they'll lose a lot of steam once they lose Obama to rage against but we've seen what political prognostications are worth this cycle.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:08
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Haha, fantastic. I appreciate the explanations, guys, thanks.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:09
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zoux posted:So how does the RNC force a deadlocked convention? Jeb! and the sword of Chang will slice through the deadlock.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:09
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JT Jag posted:The Democratic Party is clearly the party of stability. *cough*1860 election*cough*
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Dec 10, 2015 23:10
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CalmDownMate posted:He's polling at 35% among the base. I figured it went without saying that I was referring to national polls of Republican primary voters?
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Dec 10, 2015 23:11
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zoux posted:So how does the RNC force a deadlocked convention? My description of the 1976 RNC earlier was incorrect. It was not deadlocked. Ford won on the first ballot after successfully winning the rules vote that allowed him to delay announcing his VP until after winning the nomination. There hasn't been a deadlocked convention since the introduction of the 1972 primary reforms. 1976 was the closest, but both parties but in reforms since then to attempt to prevent it from happening. It almost certainly won't this year either. If it does, nobody really knows what will happen, but before we get there, the RNC has quite a few more tricks up its sleeve to prevent it which is what that meeting with Reince was about.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:12
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A Winner is Jew posted:So if republicans vote no on that it means they want terrorists to have guns right? Let's just remove Mr. V from the end of your sentence there and you pretty much have it right.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:13
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Joementum posted:My description of the 1976 RNC earlier was incorrect. It was not deadlocked. Ford won on the first ballot after successfully winning the rules vote that allowed him to delay announcing his VP until after winning the nomination. I mean the story is about a "brokered convention" which apparently doesn't exist, so I'm wondering how party officials can guarantee a second ballot if Trump wins primary season. What exactly were they wargaming?
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Dec 10, 2015 23:14
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KirbyKhan posted:From 6 pages ago, but only saw one answer. Huh. The Troops(tm) I play bidjagames with occasionally said he was a dumbass coward who deserved it.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:14
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People keep saying he's dead on arrival, but he's spent years putting his hosed up views and plans right out in the open and getting more and more popular support for them, and if he gets the nomination he'll get 45% of the vote no matter what he does or says. That's terrifying.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:14
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Is it illegal under party rules for the GOP leadership to just fuckin' offer $10,000 to each delegate who'll vote for the man they want them to vote for?
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Dec 10, 2015 23:15
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zoux posted:We've been waiting for these mythical business Republicans to rear up and crush the Tea Party since like 2010. This. Spoiler alert kids: the business Republicans are Democrats now.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:15
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fishmech posted:Is it illegal under party rules for the GOP leadership to just fuckin' offer $10,000 to each delegate who'll vote for the man they want them to vote for?
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Dec 10, 2015 23:19
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zoux posted:I mean the story is about a "brokered convention" which apparently doesn't exist, so I'm wondering how party officials can guarantee a second ballot if Trump wins primary season. What exactly were they wargaming? The story is about how to prevent a brokered convention, but what they can do is mostly the same in both cases. First, they can deny Trump's delegates access to the convention. This would by done through the Credentialing Committee where they could vote to exclude delegates based on procedural errors. There's a debate as to whether the Colorado delegation will be seated because Colorado opted to not hold any contest this year to prevent their delegates from being bound. They're having a caucus still to select delegates, but never voting on candidate preference. Other technicalities may be exploited to prevent Trump delegates from being seated. Another option is that the rules of the RNC can be changed at the convention. For example (and I'm just making this up, I have no idea if they'd consider it) they could decide to suddenly create a whole bunch of super delegates, like the Democrats have. Oh, sorry Mr. Trump, every sitting Republican member of Congress and every state governor is now a delegate. Good luck with the vote!
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Dec 10, 2015 23:19
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AmericanBarbarian posted:I think all the Trump talk has finally broken my brain. I need to take a break from daily Trump updates because the constantly escalating series of Trump-isms is making me just plain sad. Oh man, I Trump what you're Trumping about, Trump. Donald J. Trump golden toilet yoogest golf course, but Make America Great Again hat casino tower! If I flaxen combover the Mexican rapists then we'll all be 9/11! Ha ha, Trump.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:20
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Joementum posted:The story is about how to prevent a brokered convention, but what they can do is mostly the same in both cases. First, they can deny Trump's delegates access to the convention. This would by done through the Credentialing Committee where they could vote to exclude delegates based on procedural errors. There's a debate as to whether the Colorado delegation will be seated because Colorado opted to not hold any contest this year to prevent their delegates from being bound. They're having a caucus still to select delegates, but never voting on candidate preference. Other technicalities may be exploited to prevent Trump delegates from being seated. Mmmmm that's some good ratfucking...
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Dec 10, 2015 23:21
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zoux posted:This was like the most brokered of all brokerings, though right? The 1924 DNC (also known as the "Klanbake") had 103 ballots and lasted 15 days.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:22
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What I'm getting from this is that Donald Trump is the GOP's Assad. They know they have to stop him, but have no idea how to do it without putting themselves at great risk of being hosed over for years to come.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:23
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