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Jan
Feb 27, 2008

The disruptive powers of excessive national fecundity may have played a greater part in bursting the bonds of convention than either the power of ideas or the errors of autocracy.

Cultural Imperial posted:

Cool story bro. I guess you didn't get the memo that Obama has been one of the most ardent practitioners of neo liberal economics since loving Reagan

It says a lot about the state of things that neoliberal economics would still be more left-wing than Harper's permanent tar sands and Alberta boner.

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Stretch Marx
Apr 29, 2008

I'm ok with this.

Cultural Imperial posted:

Cool story bro. I guess you didn't get the memo that Obama has been one of the most ardent practitioners of neo liberal economics since loving Reagan

Cool

vainman
Nov 2, 2012

I find your lack of faith... disturbing

Morroque posted:

Is it obvious within Alberta that this is in direct reaction to Bill 6?

Not really. Facebook had to shut down a group that did nothing but talk about raping her before Bill 6 was even tabled. Crazies don't need a good reason, just a good excuse, and Rebel Media is great at finding excuses.

Morroque posted:

This must've worked out nicely for the Wild Rose. The NDP once again is left holding a goblet poisoned by just how badly the Tories screwed up beforehand.

That's what I thought but the WR have spent most of this week burning bridges. Ron Orr is a one man disaster, their comms team regularly trashes journos and refuse to give comments, and the WR - PC merger talk went over like a brick. They have a few years to shape up but it's kind of amazing.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

vainman posted:

That's what I thought but the WR have spent most of this week burning bridges. Ron Orr is a one man disaster, their comms team regularly trashes journos and refuse to give comments, and the WR - PC merger talk went over like a brick. They have a few years to shape up but it's kind of amazing.

To be fair, the Wildrose Party is made up largely of people who thought the PCs were too progressive, and then further whittled down to the real crazies by Danielle Smith leading the few sane people back to the PCs (with the most unfortunate timing imaginable). Expecting them to do something other than retarded poo poo is absurdly hopeful.

vainman
Nov 2, 2012

I find your lack of faith... disturbing

PT6A posted:

To be fair, the Wildrose Party is made up largely of people who thought the PCs were too progressive, and then further whittled down to the real crazies by Danielle Smith leading the few sane people back to the PCs (with the most unfortunate timing imaginable). Expecting them to do something other than retarded poo poo is absurdly hopeful.

Yeah, I have to agree. I'm just kind of impressed at how quickly the wheels are falling off.

Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

M.McFly posted:

Before you post anything you should have to write one nice thing about the Liberals.

Okay, pretend I started it with "One nice thing about the LIberals was the 1969 White Paper, work of art imo. They kept it in their back pocket for 44 years too until finally renouncing it in June 2014, a whole year before swinging 180 degrees in the opposite direction with this full TRC/UN thing... "

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

vainman posted:

Yeah, I have to agree. I'm just kind of impressed at how quickly the wheels are falling off.

The free market already dictated they should use the least number of lug nuts possible to save money, and then the only people who knew how to use a torque wrench crossed the floor.

Melian Dialogue
Jan 9, 2015

NOT A RACIST
--

Melian Dialogue fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Feb 2, 2016

Stretch Marx
Apr 29, 2008

I'm ok with this.

vainman posted:

Yeah, I have to agree. I'm just kind of impressed at how quickly the wheels are falling off.

Look at Kansas. That's a pretty good example of how quickly poo poo goes downhill when Tea Party type parties get ahead. Now look at the US congress. Idiot implosion always seems inevitable. The only difference between the Wild Rose and the GOP is that the GOP has a PC wing trying desperately to message control while the Wild Rose have no filters.

Ron Paul Atreides
Apr 19, 2012

Uyghurs situation in Xinjiang? Just a police action, do not fret. Not ongoing genocide like in EVIL Canada.

I am definitely not a tankie.

Stretch Marx posted:

Look at Kansas. That's a pretty good example of how quickly poo poo goes downhill when Tea Party type parties get ahead. Now look at the US congress. Idiot implosion always seems inevitable. The only difference between the Wild Rose and the GOP is that the GOP has a PC wing trying desperately to message control while the Wild Rose have no filters.

Trump may finally split the party though, it's been both amazing and terrifying to watch his ascent on the backs of these crazies

HackensackBackpack
Aug 20, 2007

Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?
Wherein The Rebel proves they're hip with the times.

DariusLikewise
Oct 4, 2008

You wore that on Halloween?
She was also a libertarian canidate in Vancouver.

Kafka Esq.
Jan 1, 2005

"If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

quote:

A good Tuesday morning to you. It's 10 days until Christmas so time is short. Let's jump right in.

Justice Murray Sinclair, the chair of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, will make public his final report into the lasting damage of Canada's residential school system today. The report, a summary of which was made public in June, raises serious concerns for current and future generations of First Nations, Inuit and Métis children. Justice Sinclair will be joined on the stage by commissioners Chief Wilton Littlechild and Marie Wilson, and will be flanked by two empty chairs, symbols of the children who never came home. Getting to the bottom of that is paramount to healing, the commission's chair insists.

“As a parent, as a family, when you’ve lost somebody, you need to know everything about that loss that you can get your hands on,” Sinclair told The Globe and Mail. “You need to know all that can be disclosed, you need to know why they died, where they died, what they died of and you need to know as well, where they are buried.”

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will attend the presentation of the Final Report of the Truth and Reconciliation Committee following a morning Cabinet meeting, complete with press availability.

Disgraced Senator Mike Duffy spent another day on the witness stand insisting he had done nothing illegal and that it was former prime minister Stephen Harper's minions who insisted he go along with the scheme to pay back $90,000. “Not mine, didn’t contain my views of what had gone on. It was completely at odds, 180 degrees from what I believed,” Duffy said of the plan hatched at PMO. Today, Duffy is expected to begin telling his version of the story about how he was given personal funds from Wright to repay his expenses debt.

It won't come as a surprise to many people, but a report by the group Canadians for Tax Fairness paints a damning picture of the Canadian Revenue Agency under the Harper government. In confidential interviews conducted in the late summer, 28 former CRA auditors claimed politicians and lobbyists influenced the agency’s operations, corporations successfully lobbied to avoid prosecution, and there allegedly is political interference in audits to stop investigations.

Conservative MP Scott Reid said that any self-serving plans by the Liberals to rewrite the rules on how federal elections are fought cannot be condoned just because “the Conservatives behaved badly when they were in government.” Reid is launching a petition calling for any proposed changes to the first-past-the-post system to be put to a national referendum. Reid said that even though many Canadians objected to the previous government's Fair Elections Act, it "was not talking about changing the electoral system itself.”

Within minutes of the historic Paris Accord on climate change being announced, the critics pounced, calling it "toothless" and "aspirational." But it's still a marked step up on the Kyoto Accord, if Canada is any example. “There’s a level of political commitment to this in Canada that was never there” for past climate agreements, Stewart Elgie, an environmental law professor who chairs the climate think tank Sustainable Prosperity, told the Ottawa Citizen.

Gov. Gen. David Johnston is in Southern Ontario to deliver a speech to members of the Oakville Community Foundation and the Oakville Chamber of Commerce entitled: "Welcoming Syrian Refugees: A Community Effort.'' Later, His Excellency delivers a keynote at the Creative Destruction Lab at the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Management.

Soon to be heard in Oakville and across Ontario: "Hey, I'll have a six pack of Bud and six buds of Ghost Train Haze." It mightn't be too long before Ontarians are saying that at the Beer Store. Premier Kathleen Wynne says licensed sellers of alcohol are the logical place to start selling marijuana, once it is legalized, of course. “It makes sense to me that the liquor distribution mechanism that we have in place at LCBO is very well-suited to putting in place the social responsibility aspects that would need to be in place.”

Speaking of the Ontario Beer Store, today is the day the monopoly gets broken. Starting today, six packs of beer can be sold in certain supermarkets, but it will take a little longer before wine begins to flow.

Here and there:
  • International Trade Minister Chrystia Freeland attends the World Trade Organization's 10th Ministerial Conference in Nairobi.
  • Bartha Knoppers, director of the Centre of Genomics and Policy, appears at the Canada Foundation for Innovation's annual public meeting in Ottawa.
  • Statistics Canada releases the monthly survey of manufacturing for October.
  • International Development Minister Marie-Claude Bibeau holds a teleconference call to make several announcements related to her ongoing trip to Vietnam and Japan.
  • Bank of Canada releases the latest Financial System Review. (lock-up, 9 a.m.-11 a.m., 151 O'Connor Street).
  • The Fraser Institute releases the Economic Freedom of North America: 2015 Report. Manitoba Premier Greg Selinger is scheduled to give a "state of the province'' speech before the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce.
    (12:30 p.m. at RBC Convention Centre (2nd Floor Ballroom), 375 York
    Ave.)
Overseas:

It's Round 5 of the Republican debates tonight, with all eyes on Ted Cruz, who is emerging as the main challenger to the Mouth that Roared, Donald Trump. The Calgary-born Texan is seen as having the money, campaign infrastructure and conservative appeal needed to compete deep into the GOP primary season and become the compromise candidate for those who oppose Trump.

Still in the U.S., Republicans and Democrats continue to try to narrow their differences in budget talks ahead of the deadline but there is little talk of a Washington shut down this time. The talks are devoid of the hysteria that marked the Boehner era, Politico reports. Nancy Pelosi and Paul Ryan are swapping offers without the typical finger-pointing and brinkmanship that has characterized previous versions of these debates.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is in Moscow for talks to try to bridge gaps with Russia over the political process to end Syria's civil war. It's a safe bet that tensions with NATO partner Turkey will also be part of the conversation.

Saudi Arabia says it is pulling together a coalition of 34 predominantly Muslim countries — including powers such as Egypt and Turkey — in a coordinated effort to fight "terrorist organizations."

In Featured Opinion:
  • All rookie governments get a pass the first time they glance over the books left by the last bunch and announce they're shocked — shocked! — to learn that the cupboard is bare. But the Trudeau Liberals, confronting the vast gap between what they've promised and what they can afford, have started talking about maintaining the debt-to-GDP ratio — which would allow them to blow their stated deficit limit by $15 billion. It's an alarming idea, says Tasha Kheiriddin, because the chances of the stimulus effect of $25 billion in annual deficit spending actually bringing down that ratio are slim to none.
  • Bloomberg's Leonid Bershidsky tears into the COP21 climate change pact: toothless, unenforceable and wildly oversold. "Nobody has taken on any obligations to comply with any common plan, and there's no punishment for treating the emissions-reducing programs as a formality — or for never following through on them."
  • And former TransCanada Pipelines VP Dennis McConaghy wants to know when the Trudeau government plans to offer some clarity on what it means by giving “greater say” to First Nations on major hydrocarbon infrastructure projects — because their comments to date suggest an aboriginal veto that could guarantee not another metre of pipe gets laid anywhere in Canada for the next century.
And, finally, as a public service to those of you lacking the vocabulary necessary to keep up with PM Justin Trudeau's plans to legalize marijuana, here is a video from High Times of the Top 10 varieties of pot in 2015 (and for the casual gardener, the pictures are stunning): Flubber, Night Nurse, Zkittlez, Cookies & Cream, White Cookies, Schlemons, Lamb's Breath, Mega Wellness OG, Orange Cookies, and Strawberry Banana. Whatever happened to Colombian Gold and Maui Wowie?

Have a great Tuesday.
______________

International National Atlantic Quebec Ontario British Columbia North

Stretch Marx
Apr 29, 2008

I'm ok with this.

Ron Paul Atreides posted:

Trump may finally split the party though, it's been both amazing and terrifying to watch his ascent on the backs of these crazies

Oddly enough, if that happens and the Democrats don't break up for any reason then you're going to have a Fascist Party, a Center-Right Party, and a Center-Left party. And I bet their elections will end up exactly the same as ours but only in reverse.

Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes
Edit: One nice thing about the Liberals is their accountability and transparency.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/syrian-refugees-welcome-kits-1.3363962

quote:

The government is taking "exceptional measures" to provide welcome kits to Syrian refugees, but the suppliers of goods and services will be kept secret for security reasons.

Remi Lariviere, a spokesperson for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, said procuring the items to welcome 25,000 Syrian refugees is being done as "efficiently and cost-effectively" as possible. But details around costs will not be disclosed.

"Given the security implications of this initiative, the government of Canada, as per the National Security Exception, will not disclose the identity of any supplier or the location of where the work will be done," he said.

:homebrew:

Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Dec 15, 2015

flakeloaf
Feb 26, 2003

Still better than android clock

I was also a bit confused by that. Is Parka Dave's Parkas really in danger of protests because we sole-sourced some coats?

What are they going to say when Ambrose accuses them of cronyism? Also, things like canned food have lot numbers so you can totally trace the suppliers back that way.

Tan Dumplord
Mar 9, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
A co-worker remarked that he saw that the refugees were out BUYING FURNITURE with a GOVERNMENT-ISSUED CREDIT CARD and he was very upset by this fact.

I think it's probably a good idea not to disclose which suppliers are providing for refugees.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord

OLP.gif

flakeloaf
Feb 26, 2003

Still better than android clock

sliderule posted:

A co-worker remarked that he saw that the refugees were out BUYING FURNITURE with a GOVERNMENT-ISSUED CREDIT CARD and he was very upset by this fact.

I think it's probably a good idea not to disclose which suppliers are providing for refugees.

Your co-worker sounds like an rear end in a top hat and the rest of us have the right to know who's getting this spent tax money.

Kraftwerk
Aug 13, 2011
i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

Anyone see the press conference where Wynne talks about using the LCBO to sell weed and John Tory is trying his drat hardest not to burst out laughing?

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




flakeloaf posted:

Your co-worker sounds like an rear end in a top hat and the rest of us have the right to know who's getting this spent tax money.

Who gives a poo poo. Racist assholes are going to overreact, like his/her coworker, and does it really matter where they bought the gloves for the welcome kits. Who the gently caress cares.

Tan Dumplord
Mar 9, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

flakeloaf posted:

Your co-worker sounds like an rear end in a top hat and the rest of us have the right to know who's getting this spent tax money.

Do we get full disclosure on, say, what vendors CSIS/CSEC/RCMP use and how much they spend? Do you think it's more or less important that we get this disclosure versus refugee grocery spending?

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

sliderule posted:

A co-worker remarked that he saw that the refugees were out BUYING FURNITURE with a GOVERNMENT-ISSUED CREDIT CARD and he was very upset by this fact.

I think it's probably a good idea not to disclose which suppliers are providing for refugees.

Are you telling me that these refugees actually want furniture? We can't afford that sort of extravagance! Sleeping bags (used) on the floor, ONLY!

Next you'll be telling me they want refrigerators and stoves or something! Madness!

(It's a joke, in case that's not clear)

flakeloaf
Feb 26, 2003

Still better than android clock

CLAM DOWN posted:

does it really matter where they bought the gloves for the welcome kits. Who the gently caress cares.

If we bought them from a friend of the party who's selling them for triple the retail price, I'd say it matters a great deal. What possible security threat can come from knowing the name of the place where we bought clothes?

DariusLikewise
Oct 4, 2008

You wore that on Halloween?
I know somebody who was upset that we were spending money on refugees at all, but is okay with the new 250 million dollar Winnipeg Police Headquarters and 250 thousand dollar tactical armoured vehicle because it's important to have due to the increasing frequency of radical attacks.

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




flakeloaf posted:

If we bought them from a friend of the party who's selling them for triple the retail price, I'd say it matters a great deal. What possible security threat can come from knowing the name of the place where we bought clothes?

Because the aforementioned racist assholes would boycott and protest and threaten stores and companies and owners, who are helping with this. If a glove costs $3 instead of $1.99, I really don't give a poo poo. You're ridiculous for giving a poo poo about this. Do you want to know the details of every single government contract too?

flakeloaf
Feb 26, 2003

Still better than android clock

CLAM DOWN posted:

Because the aforementioned racist assholes would boycott and protest and threaten stores and companies and owners, who are helping with this. If a glove costs $3 instead of $1.99, I really don't give a poo poo. You're ridiculous for giving a poo poo about this. Do you want to know the details of every single government contract too?

Yes, that's generally how transparency is supposed to work, and I think you're ridiculous for believing that the racist morons who would boycott and protest businesses for having the temerity to help people wouldn't be immediately shouted down by the much larger percentage of the population who aren't jerks. Placating them is stupid and should not be a priority.

Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

sliderule posted:

Do we get full disclosure on, say, what vendors CSIS/CSEC/RCMP use and how much they spend? Do you think it's more or less important that we get this disclosure versus refugee grocery spending?

The RCMP actually does?

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/award-notice/PW-14-00662406-001 An example with the value and supplier for new body cams

Full list of procurements

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/cm-gg/app-ann-eng.htm#table1 RCMP is looking to spend $669,000 on shotgun slings?

"We're not releasing the supplier of refugee welcome packages for security reasons" might possibly make sense somewhere if they explained why. "We're not releasing the cost of refugee welcome packages for security reasons" will never make sense. The argument "Yeah well, I know a guy who doesn't like refugees" does not make it make sense.

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




flakeloaf posted:

Yes, that's generally how transparency is supposed to work, and I think you're ridiculous for believing that the racist morons who would boycott and protest businesses for having the temerity to help people wouldn't be immediately shouted down by the much larger percentage of the population who aren't jerks. Placating them is stupid and should not be a priority.

Over a cost as insignificant as this, it's absolutely worth avoiding that. I ask again, do you demand to see contract details for every government purchase? Why is refugee care so impotrant?

sbaldrick
Jul 19, 2006
Driven by Hate

Kraftwerk posted:

Anyone see the press conference where Wynne talks about using the LCBO to sell weed and John Tory is trying his drat hardest not to burst out laughing?

Do not read any of the comments on this.

flakeloaf
Feb 26, 2003

Still better than android clock

CLAM DOWN posted:

Over a cost as insignificant as this, it's absolutely worth avoiding that. I ask again, do you demand to see contract details for every government purchase? Why is refugee care so impotrant?

Whether I demand the details of all contracts or not has no effect on whether they should be available for someone to inspect, if they choose. Refugee care isn't what's important in this discussion, knowing where our government money is going *is*. The government is hiding that information, the reason given for hiding that information sucks, and we're right to question it. Forgive me if I need more to go on here than "Because security".

Saying the cost should escape scrutiny because it's "insignificant" means it's okay if our money is shoveled into a pork barrel as long as the shovel is small.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
What if they revealed the costs, to make sure we're not getting screwed, but didn't release the names of the vendors? There's still the spectre of cronyism, but it would at least satisfy people that our money isn't being wasted.

Frankly, I don't really give a poo poo one way or the other.

Do it ironically
Jul 13, 2010

by Pragmatica
So I hear now that the government wasn't organized and we're procuring hotels for refugees from now till the end of February, 80 million dollars, and each refugee is getting $61 for food each day, wish I could spend $61 a day on food.

Tan Dumplord
Mar 9, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

flakeloaf posted:

Yes, that's generally how transparency is supposed to work, and I think you're ridiculous for believing that the racist morons who would boycott and protest businesses for having the temerity to help people wouldn't be immediately shouted down by the much larger percentage of the population who aren't jerks. Placating them is stupid and should not be a priority.

We should stop placating criminals and disclose police movements. The larger percentage of the population that isn't criminal will openly rebuke the criminals, and that's good enough.

It doesn't matter that many people decry the firebombing of a mosque. It still happened. Likewise, the retribution that occurs towards those who help refugees will still happen. Isn't limiting harm a good thing?

I mean, we already know that the Liberal spending practices are corrupt as gently caress, but there's sweet gently caress all we can do about it. What's the point of forcing them to be open about it where there is a risk of real harm in revealing the information?

Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Do it ironically posted:

So I hear now that the government wasn't organized and we're procuring hotels for refugees from now till the end of February, 80 million dollars, and each refugee is getting $61 for food each day, wish I could spend $61 a day on food.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/government-hotel-bill-for-refugees-expected-to-near-80-million-by-march posted:

Between now and March, Ottawa needs 300 rooms daily in each of the two cities to house about 600 refugees per night, according to a notice posted Friday on a government procurement website.

Okay so they can reveal where the refugees are staying and the cost on their procurement site but they can't reveal the welcome package makers or cost for security reasons? Please someone argue me on this, it's too easy.

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




flakeloaf posted:

Whether I demand the details of all contracts or not has no effect on whether they should be available for someone to inspect, if they choose. Refugee care isn't what's important in this discussion, knowing where our government money is going *is*. The government is hiding that information, the reason given for hiding that information sucks, and we're right to question it. Forgive me if I need more to go on here than "Because security".

Saying the cost should escape scrutiny because it's "insignificant" means it's okay if our money is shoveled into a pork barrel as long as the shovel is small.

What PT6A asked. Or would it somehow anger you more if they bought pants for the refugees from Sears instead of The Bay? I cannot comprehend your outrage over this.

flakeloaf
Feb 26, 2003

Still better than android clock

sliderule posted:

It doesn't matter that many people decry the firebombing of a mosque. It still happened. Likewise, the retribution that occurs towards those who help refugees will still happen. Isn't limiting harm a good thing?

Rapes will still happen, so the most valid harm-reduction tactic is to tell women not to use the subway.

CLAM DOWN posted:

What PT6A asked. Or would it somehow anger you more if they bought pants for the refugees from Sears instead of The Bay? I cannot comprehend your outrage over this.

No outrage, just confusion. Invoking national security to hide the name of a grocery store seems weird, is all.

flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Dec 15, 2015

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
Also, given that I think public opinion is in favour of helping refugees (even if the loudest people are firmly in the anti-refugee camp), revealing the sources could be seen as a form of advertising/promotion, which could attract criticism in and of itself.

flakeloaf
Feb 26, 2003

Still better than android clock

PT6A posted:

Also, given that I think public opinion is in favour of helping refugees (even if the loudest people are firmly in the anti-refugee camp), revealing the sources could be seen as a form of advertising/promotion, which could attract criticism in and of itself.

Now THAT's a good reason. Still doesn't count as "security" but it makes a lot of sense in its own right.

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Tan Dumplord
Mar 9, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

flakeloaf posted:

"She was asking for it".

Okay, so full disclosure of everything all the time even when it might harm someone? You would be okay demanding that the police document undercover operations in real time?

I mean, those undercover cops don't need the protection of secrecy. We should just let them get killed and then prosecute the murderers.

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