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drilldo squirt posted:Is a strange response in a thread that's about the rise of anti islamic hate crimes in the western world. Hate crimes against Muslim people is retarded and racist. But saying Islam ought to be respected I'd retarded and dishonest. So while I don't think hate crimes are justified, pointing out how backwards Islam is is fair game. It's also hypocritical for Christians to do this since the same charges are at their feet as well . Thus, dropping faith all together leads to a better society where hate crimes aren't as likely to occur because no one is fighting over sky wizards.
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Dec 16, 2015 05:27
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Jastiger posted:Hate crimes against Muslim people is retarded and racist. But saying Islam ought to be respected I'd retarded and dishonest. So while I don't think hate crimes are justified, pointing out how backwards Islam is is fair game. It's also hypocritical for Christians to do this since the same charges are at their feet as well After reading the thread I question your sincerity in these statements.
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Dec 16, 2015 05:32
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Jastiger posted:Hate crimes against Muslim people is retarded and racist. But saying Islam ought to be respected I'd retarded and dishonest. So while I don't think hate crimes are justified, pointing out how backwards Islam is is fair game. It's also hypocritical for Christians to do this since the same charges are at their feet as well Historically stamping out a religion all together has never been accomplished without doing hate crimes, ever, so if you're looking for a solution to the religion problem so effective that we'll never need another solution after that one
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Dec 16, 2015 05:39
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Reaganomicon posted:"Islam isn't a race" What? Russian Muslims or Chinese Muslims or maybe just even Arab Muslims? Some of us are smart enough to actually know what the gently caress the difference is between religion and race.
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Dec 16, 2015 05:49
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Jastiger posted:Thus, dropping faith all together leads to a better society where hate crimes aren't as likely to occur because no one is fighting over sky wizards. Do you have any real examples of highly irreligious societies that are/were marked by a shortage of hate crimes? Because the first societies that come to mind are various 20th century Communist states, and they weren't exactly known for tolerance. Maybe Norway, but that was the country that produced Breivik.
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Dec 16, 2015 05:58
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shrike82 posted:This is pretty frightening stuff.
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Dec 16, 2015 06:07
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He knows, he was just trolling.
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Dec 16, 2015 06:21
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Da Mott Man posted:What? Russian Muslims or Chinese Muslims or maybe just even Arab Muslims? Some of us are smart enough to actually know what the gently caress the difference is between religion and race. What I'm saying is I think in the average person's (maybe just American?) mind, "Muslim = arab". Yes I realize Uyghurs exist.
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Dec 16, 2015 06:23
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Reaganomicon posted:What I'm saying is I think in the average person's (maybe just American?) mind, "Muslim = arab". Yes I realize Uyghurs exist. Hence the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpE6ljPjSAk
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Dec 16, 2015 06:28
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lfield posted:He knows, he was just trolling.
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Dec 16, 2015 06:30
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VitalSigns posted:Historically stamping out a religion all together has never been accomplished without doing hate crimes, ever, so if you're looking for a solution to the religion problem so effective that we'll never need another solution after that one This is very true, and why even as a person who is steadfastly anti-religious I could never support an outright ban on religion. I think we need to work toward a society where it's not acceptable to express religious beliefs in the public sphere. By my reckoning, any sort of religious belief or spirituality is a deeply personal thing -- a relationship between you and your deity, if you will -- so I don't understand why it's something which needs to be publicized or made into law. We need strongly secular states which permit the free exercise of one's religious belief, but do not allow its influence into law or policy. It turns out, by no small coincidence, that this is not only best for non-believers like myself, but also for the faithful who don't toe the line of whoever happens to wield the most power at any given time. By all means: go to your church, mosque, synagogue or temple, and pray however you see fit, and conduct your life however you think is best, no matter why you feel that way. I just have an issue when anyone tries to force their views on other people, especially in a damaging fashion.
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Dec 16, 2015 07:13
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Da Mott Man posted:What? Russian Muslims or Chinese Muslims or maybe just even Arab Muslims? Some of us are smart enough to actually know what the gently caress the difference is between religion and race. what abou t the Jewish race sometimes when it comes to ethnicity (race is a synonym for ethnicity) these lines are blurry.
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Dec 16, 2015 07:26
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Squalid posted:what abou t the Jewish race Their are atheist Jewish people. When you adopt something as an identity, especially a regional area like Israel, it is no longer tied to your religion. So I'm going to call this a straw man. No offense intended.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:26
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Jewish can refer to the Semitic ethnicity, the Judaic religion and/or being an Israeli national in different contexts. It's not just a religious descriptor. There's no blurry line between being Muslim and being Arab/African, but the former is obviously used as a dogwhistle for the latter.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:44
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Mandy Thompson posted:Hope I think a lot of lines need to be draw here. 1) line. All charity is awesome, no matter the reasons. And if somebody disagree he is invited to do more charity than the "evil" person doing charity for the "wrong" reasons. 2) line. You have to difference the organization objectives with the people. I am sure theres somewhere nice Comcast and nice BP Oil guys. Theres probably honest and nice people with a very religious setup that just want to help others. Many of these already work from inside a religious organization. Comcast, BP Oil, the Catholic Church has a organization are sociopath, where their priority #1 is to ensure their survival and their power. No mater how. Buying poors with a meal is cheap for religious orgs. They prey on the weak that can't defend itself. 3) line Rich people love charity, and hate fair compensation. When you do charity, poor people is your pet. You feel awesome and you find something to do with your money (that is plenty). Ask the owners of a big corporation to give free toys for poor kids in Xmax, they say YES. Ask them to raise the salary of the workers so they can buy toys for his kids in Xmax, they say NAY. TL;DR version: Charity is really a good thing evil people/no evil love to do, and I love to do myself. I love if people do it more. I would love if it would not be necessary. Tei fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 11:29
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INH5 posted:Do you have any real examples of highly irreligious societies that are/were marked by a shortage of hate crimes? Because the first societies that come to mind are various 20th century Communist states, and they weren't exactly known for tolerance. Maybe Norway, but that was the country that produced Breivik. VitalSigns posted:Historically stamping out a religion all together has never been accomplished without doing hate crimes, ever, so if you're looking for a solution to the religion problem so effective that we'll never need another solution after that one I'm not saying if you get rid of religion everything will be sunshine and rainbows. I'm saying that it will go a long way towards mitigating hate crimes. Sociopaths are going to exist no matter what, its part of the human condition, but getting rid of the easiest way to justify being a shitheel does help lower the instances of being a shitheel. PT6A posted:This is very true, and why even as a person who is steadfastly anti-religious I could never support an outright ban on religion. I think we need to work toward a society where it's not acceptable to express religious beliefs in the public sphere. By my reckoning, any sort of religious belief or spirituality is a deeply personal thing -- a relationship between you and your deity, if you will -- so I don't understand why it's something which needs to be publicized or made into law. We need strongly secular states which permit the free exercise of one's religious belief, but do not allow its influence into law or policy. It turns out, by no small coincidence, that this is not only best for non-believers like myself, but also for the faithful who don't toe the line of whoever happens to wield the most power at any given time. No, they aren't contorting it. They are just taking the "beautiful religion" extremely seriously. They are completely justified in their actions per their holy books just like any other religious person is justified in helping the hungry in the name of Islam. There isn't anything noble about the religion, only the actions.
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Dec 16, 2015 13:43
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Jastiger posted:I'm not saying if you get rid of religion everything will be sunshine and rainbows. I'm saying that it will go a long way towards mitigating hate crimes. Sociopaths are going to exist no matter what, its part of the human condition, but getting rid of the easiest way to justify being a shitheel does help lower the instances of being a shitheel. Like making the word "friend of the family" unacceptable to say in society. That has certainly reduced racism, especially in the traditional pockets where it existed. No, I don't know Lee Atwater, why do you ask?
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Dec 16, 2015 13:51
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Jastiger posted:I'm not saying if you get rid of religion everything will be sunshine and rainbows. I'm saying that it will go a long way towards mitigating hate crimes. Sociopaths are going to exist no matter what, its part of the human condition, but getting rid of the easiest way to justify being a shitheel does help lower the instances of being a shitheel. Stop treating religion like it's magic. It's just another part of culture. You can find every lovely thing done in the name of religion done in the name of just plain culture too.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:14
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Obdicut posted:Stop treating religion like it's magic. It's just another part of culture. You can find every lovely thing done in the name of religion done in the name of just plain culture too. Not that there isn't a cultural aspect to religion, but last I checked people didn't become suicide bombers in the name of 'their culture.'
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Dec 16, 2015 14:28
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Nori_Takeshi posted:Not that there isn't a cultural aspect to religion, but last I checked people didn't become suicide bombers in the name of 'their culture.' Kamikaze.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:29
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Nori_Takeshi posted:Not that there isn't a cultural aspect to religion, but last I checked people didn't become suicide bombers in the name of 'their culture.' Kamikaze pilots. I mean yeah they were Shinto and believed dead grandpa would be happy, but that's not why they did it.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:30
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VitalSigns posted:Kamikaze pilots. The Japanese Emperor was literally god. How is this any different?
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Dec 16, 2015 14:33
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Also the Tamil Tigers who made modern suicide bombing in the first place were primarily fighting for independence in Sri Lanka.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:35
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Obdicut posted:Stop treating religion like it's magic. It's just another part of culture. You can find every lovely thing done in the name of religion done in the name of just plain culture too. I am not a expert but... I think technically, religion is a supermeme. Meme are ideas that spread using minds has host, jumping from mind to mind, taking resources from the host. Religions are bigger than a simple meme like Longcat or Trollface, but are on the same famiily. A culture is like a huge network of memes and semes, and a religion don't exist passivelly it there.... religions even have the hability to jump from one culture to the next. I think the reason why many religions adopt things like homophobia, is because adopting items from the host culture is a adaptative trait. Islam may have adopted homophobia as a way to more succesfully infect more minds in the area where homophobia was a dominant meme. If a supermeme like religion adopt many memes from a culture, is possible that the borders between the religion of the culture will be well dissimulated, like a tiger hidden behind some leafs. When the christianism tried to spread around europe, it found that in some places people was unwilling to abandon their original worship of a Goddness, so they just relabeled the local goddness "Virgin Mary <something>" [1]. Religions take from the culture what they need to survive, and by doing this they sort of camouflage themselves inside cultures as part of the culture. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronage_of_the_Blessed_Virgin_Mary Tei fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 14:36
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Nori_Takeshi posted:The Japanese Emperor was literally god. How is this any different? nah, strictly speaking he was a demi-god descended from actual gods
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Dec 16, 2015 14:37
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computer parts posted:Also the Tamil Tigers who made modern suicide bombing in the first place were primarily fighting for independence in Sri Lanka. Just because you don't kill yourself for explicitly religious reasons doesn't mean religion wasn't a driving factor. The Tamil Tigers were Hindu, so while their motivation may not have been religious their actions were heavily influenced by Hindu beliefs of life after death.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:41
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Nori_Takeshi posted:Just because you don't kill yourself for explicitly religious reasons doesn't mean religion wasn't a driving factor. The Tamil Tigers were Hindu, so while their motivation may not have been religious their actions were heavily influenced by Hindu beliefs of life after death. So literally you won't be convinced unless an atheist group uses suicide bombing.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:42
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Neil Robertsquote:On 18 November 1982, a suicide bomb attack was made against a facility housing the main computer database of the New Zealand Police in Whanganui. The attacker, a "punk rock" anarchist named Neil Roberts, was the only person killed, and the computer system was undamaged.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:48
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computer parts posted:So literally you won't be convinced unless an atheist group uses suicide bombing. Convinced of what? That suicide bombing is in no way influenced by the religious beliefs of those who participate?
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Dec 16, 2015 14:49
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Nori_Takeshi posted:Convinced of what? That suicide bombing is in no way influenced by the religious beliefs of those who participate? That "people [don't] become suicide bombers in the name of 'their culture.'" Your definition of "their culture" seems to be "something that doesn't involve religion in any way whatsoever". That's a dumb standard.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:51
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Ignacy Hryniewieckiquote:In February 1881 Hryniewiecki joined the bomb-throwing unit created to assassinate Tsar Alexander II. But he made fun of God and didn't say God doesn't exist so clearly it was religion that made this revolutionary socialist suicide bomber do it.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:56
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Dec 16, 2015 15:00
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drilldo squirt posted:After reading the thread I question your sincerity in these statements. No, he's totally serious that if these Muslims weren't in his face all the time FLAUNTING their religion, there would be no reason to commit hate crimes against them.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:06
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computer parts posted:That "people [don't] become suicide bombers in the name of 'their culture.'" I think the problem is that I'm not being specific enough. Imagine 'culture' as the overarching set of societal traditions. Religion is simply a subset. Islamic terrorists aren't blowing themselves up in the name of their Iraqi culture, their Syrian culture, or their African culture. The 9/11 hijackers didn't fly airliners into buildings because of 'their Saudi culture.' There's a specific set of bad ideas found within these different cultures called 'religion' which provides the bedrock for these kinds of behaviors.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:12
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Nori_Takeshi posted:
This doesn't necessarily follow. Again, the Tamil Tigers primarily fought for independence of their ethnic group. They were Hindu, but the concept of reincarnation is not why they fought.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:14
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Nori_Takeshi posted:Not that there isn't a cultural aspect to religion, but last I checked people didn't become suicide bombers in the name of 'their culture.' Of course they have. Are you really that ignorant? The first goddamn suicide bomber ever, Yegor Sazonov, didn't do it for religious reasons.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:16
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He want's to say that it's islam that causes suicide bombers but he knows he will be called out if he says that.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:18
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Battle of Taierzhuangquote:Due to lack of anti-armor weaponry, Suicide bombing was also used against the Japanese. Chinese troops strapped explosives like grenade packs or dynamite to their bodies and threw themselves under Japanese tanks to blow them up.Dynamite and grenades were strapped on by Chinese troops who rushed at Japanese tanks and blew themselves up. During one incident at Taierzhuang, Chinese suicide bombers obliterated four Japanese tanks with grenade bundles.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:19
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Islam causes suicide bombers.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:22
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computer parts posted:Like making the word "friend of the family" unacceptable to say in society. That has certainly reduced racism, especially in the traditional pockets where it existed. Well it HAS made it harder to be overtly racist though, hasn't it? Not that I'm saying its Mission Accomplished and you're not going to wipe out racism by banning "friend of the family". But you ARE going to make it harder to overtly discriminate if you take the overt methods off the table. Same with religion. Its harder to get suicide bombers and the like if you take away religion. I note VitalSigns is posting a few examples; isn't it evidence of religions problem that you're so able to find the few non religious examples there are? You can find maybe a dozen by scouring the internet, all the rest are religious in nature. Obdicut posted:Stop treating religion like it's magic. It's just another part of culture. You can find every lovely thing done in the name of religion done in the name of just plain culture too. Religion is a part of culture, a TOXIC part of culture. Saying so doesn't make you a Islam/Christian/Jew-o-phobe. Also I haven't found any non religious reason to oppose same sex marriage, abortion, marijuana, right to death, etc. Every argument opposing these things (whos opposition makes the culture worse) comes from religious nonsense arguments.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:22
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