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JerryLee posted:rabidsquid and black potus (and mcmagic in his capacity as a straight man) are basically the only things keeping this thread readable sometimes Likewise, they are sometimes the only things making the thread unreadable. 
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Dec 16, 2015 06:48
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bhsman posted:Likewise, they are sometimes the only things making the thread unreadable. this is actually never a thing that's true I'm concerned that spoiler season is going to be worse than usual after this mass spoil. There won't be enough new cards to stem the tide of vomit-inducing opinions.
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Dec 16, 2015 06:57
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There was a full spoiler a few years ago because of that godbook nonsense but I can't remember the consequences here other than people arguing whether or not having access to the godbook for playtesting purposes was significant
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Dec 16, 2015 07:01
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rabidsquid posted:It's really hard to cast Nissa with Calciform Pools. Not that you can't, for instance in legacy you can use Green Mana Battery, I'd Plant a +1/+1 counter in her Calciform Pool, if you know what I'm saying. ...Look I'm really trying to make this Calciform Pools thing work, I am lifting with my legs here.
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Dec 16, 2015 07:04
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Procrastinator posted:this is actually never a thing that's true Usually it's fine, realtalk, but 10% of the time or so potus just keeps hammering on a joke with consecutive posts and it's just not doing it for me.
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Dec 16, 2015 07:04
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Procrastinator posted:The difference between Nissa and Gideon is that Nissa's tokens are a + ability, not a 0. The difference between First Response and Bitterblossom is that Bitterblossom costs 2 less, is a different color has a relevant tribal, the tokens fly and you can't optionally choose to trigger the token generation. But otherwise, they're the same card man!
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Dec 16, 2015 07:14
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Maybe we should take a deep breath and realize that we haven't even seen the rares in this set, and are arguing in circles about power level in a vaccuum? I don't personally plan to take nissa as my only posession when this planet finally gets sick and tired of us and decides to kill everyone who doesn't escape, in rickety spacecraft, to the small mars colony built only 20 years before, you know? Much better to take calciform pools. That's a drat dependable card, that is.
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Dec 16, 2015 07:46
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I'm over Oath, now I just want Shadows over Innistrad spoilers. I hope whatever new Innistrad planeswalker has an ultimate that just keeps casting Spider Spawning on your end step.
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Dec 16, 2015 08:01
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I don't think they're gonna make Conley Woods a planeswalker
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Dec 16, 2015 08:06
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Chyea posted:I'm over Oath, now I just want Shadows over Innistrad spoilers. Tibalt as a Jund planeswalker. His ultimate gives you an emblem with 'At EOT, draw a card, discard a card at random, then Spider Spawning.'
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Dec 16, 2015 08:07
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rabidsquid posted:There was a full spoiler a few years ago because of that godbook nonsense but I can't remember the consequences here other than people arguing whether or not having access to the godbook for playtesting purposes was significant I think the only consequences of that were a dude getting sued and Wizards trying to be way tighter with leaks going forward. Unless this is a different instance of huge leaks that I'm not thinking of?
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Dec 16, 2015 08:07
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More likely they are talking about when it turned out Guillaume Wafo-Tapa (I think I have the right Guillaume there...) was using the godbooks he got as a reference to write for a magazine to get a head start in PT testing, and in doing so, shared it with his testing partners (who then bragged about it on IRC and got caught).
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Dec 16, 2015 08:27
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I mean, we coulda talked about the "what's the play" but everyone hates Twin, so...
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Dec 16, 2015 08:40
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Angry Grimace posted:I mean, we coulda talked about the "what's the play" but everyone hates Twin, so... The correct play is to stall until the news of Twin's banning comes through. Unfortunately, that causes a draw as both you and your opponent lose, but it's still the best play.
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Dec 16, 2015 08:55
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JerryLee posted:The correct play is to stall until the news of Twin's banning comes through. I would have said Remand later, but I mean, it's your call
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Dec 16, 2015 09:03
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I don't play Modern, but Twin doesn't seem all that bad since every time you attempt the combo you risk getting 2-for-1'ed or otherwise hosed over by any form of instant-speed interaction.
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Dec 16, 2015 09:47
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Voyager I posted:I don't play Modern, but Twin doesn't seem all that bad since every time you attempt the combo you risk getting 2-for-1'ed or otherwise hosed over by any form of instant-speed interaction. It creates very tight restrictions on when and what you can spend your mana on, especially on turns 3 or 4, because you have to respect a blind Exarch into Twin. The part that's so frustrating about Twin is that it's, at its core, a servicable U/R tempo deck that gives up a small bit of power to be able to steal games on the spot. If you were to ban Twin, U/R tempo would still be a very good deck -it might even be better, because some of those concessions are among the most powerful cards in both Legacy and Vintage. Niton fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 09:54
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Dungeon Ecology posted:Is there anything that replaces Jace in that 4-color CoCo deck? I finally got the manabase together and that motherfucker is the only thing I can't justify putting money behind. Jace does a couple of big things for the deck; he improves your hand while also letting you fill your graveyard for Rally, he lets you flashback CoCo to get even more creatures in play, and he does this all while being a viable CoCo target himself. I don't think there's anything that replaces those abilities, so your best bet is probably just to look for other viable CoCo targets with useful ETBs in your colors, or just in general any creature that is essentially a desirable spell attached to a body since those can get CoCo'ed, Rallied, and work as fuel for your sac engine. I wouldn't key in too hard on the actual mana cost; the deck cuts its curve off at 3 mana to work with CoCo, so it's naturally going to have a big cluster there, and even without Jace you're already running liked a dozen 1-2 drops. Fleshbag Marauder might be an interesting choice. Nothing's going to really replace what Jace brings to the deck, but you could get a lot of value out of it against decks that don't run wide. EDIT: In general, the Rally Decks focus a little more on creatures with good ETBs than pure sac value dudes like Sultai Emissary since the gameplan is to trigger them multiple times with Rally or even go Rally > bounce with Faithful for a third trigger, though they're still certainly not bad fits for the deck if you just need a filler card. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 09:58
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Voyager I posted:I don't play Modern, but Twin doesn't seem all that bad since every time you attempt the combo you risk getting 2-for-1'ed or otherwise hosed over by any form of instant-speed interaction. The reason why Twin isn't as oppressive as it sounds is this coupled with the fact that every viable deck can interact with the combo.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:03
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Splinter Twin is always going to be fine and isn't remotely the only turn 4 deck in Modern. It's just the only turn 4 deck killing you with two cards in one turn.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:07
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Voyager I posted:I don't play Modern, but Twin doesn't seem all that bad since every time you attempt the combo you risk getting 2-for-1'ed or otherwise hosed over by any form of instant-speed interaction. I don't think Twin is overpowered, or needs to be banned. But the fact that it has two very powerful routes to winning the game and is constantly holding one over your head like a sledgehammer if you make the tiniest mistake is why Twin is so good/dominant.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:11
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Does Origins Jace have a place outside of Standard? Is its price likely to drop once he rotates? Should I bite the bullet and grab some asap? Is my hatred for that stupid card justified?
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Dec 16, 2015 10:13
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Alris posted:Does Origins Jace have a place outside of Standard? Is its price likely to drop once he rotates? Should I bite the bullet and grab some asap? Is my hatred for that stupid card justified? Yes, it's playable in Legacy and Modern and a couple of Vintage decks. The price will likely go down after he rotates out (in 6 months?) but it's a very good card and a mythic rare so the price won't fall too much. Edit: Can I also say this that this standard really confuses me? We have a Vintage-restricted card and a Modern-banned card (Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time) that we can play 4 of each, as well as Vintage-playable finishers (Monastery Mentor) and planeswalkers (baby Jace). How is there not a deck that takes full advantage of these? Is Wet Mardu the best we can do? Lancelot fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 10:16
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Alris posted:Does Origins Jace have a place outside of Standard? Is its price likely to drop once he rotates? Should I bite the bullet and grab some asap? Is my hatred for that stupid card justified? Yes, to some degree but not as much as people might assume, depends on if you're playing a blue deck, and not while we exist in a world where abzan has been either the bsst deck (last standard) or one of the best decks for more than a year.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:16
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Lancelot posted:
Twin is in a very weird spot - it's the best deck of its type in the format, but it's not the best deck by all that much. Splinter Twin leaving the format would certainly shake things up, but there would still be viable U/R/x tempo decks.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:34
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LotV dropped to about 30-40 at rotation, I expect at least that for flip jace.
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Dec 16, 2015 11:33
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Nissa's +1 is a bit underwhelming in that the token isn't particularly strong but the real threat is to pseudo-anthem more than once. The thing is if you get to -2 nissa twice your team of whatever is going to be pretty stupidly hard to deal with. On top of that nissa's -2 plays pretty well with manlands and unlike awaken doesn't make them vulnerable to sorcery speed removal and awakening manlands is already awesome. Nissa, ignoring mana cost, is definitely usually weaker than gideon, but her mana cost and the significantly greater feasibility of her pumping your team twice are distinct advantages she has over gideon. Nissa definitely looks good in a tokens shell which if you include both esper and bant is a deck that sits just shy of top 8'ing a lot of GPs and the last PT as well.
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Dec 16, 2015 11:39
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rabidsquid posted:It's a load bearing post. A load of poo poo?  Zoness posted:Nissa's +1 is a bit underwhelming in that the token isn't particularly strong but the real threat is to pseudo-anthem more than once. The thing is if you get to -2 nissa twice your team of whatever is going to be pretty stupidly hard to deal with. On top of that nissa's -2 plays pretty well with manlands and unlike awaken doesn't make them vulnerable to sorcery speed removal and awakening manlands is already awesome. Bant tokens is the deck that I wish was in the "Just Good Enough for Top 8" category. That deck is fun as hell. Count Bleck fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 11:40
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MiddleEastBeast posted:It's not even close to a full time job, and I'm not sure what being very good at a thing has to do with whether one should be able to make a living wage doing it. As far as I can tell from looking through stream replays, their "work day" is something like 9 hours three days in a row, though maybe closer to 7 once you account for all the breaks between rounds. They're still probably breaking 20 hours in 3 days, and thats if you don't account for the travel. If you include travel, and definitely if you include the amount of time that they have to be on call to chat between rounds, it's really easy to just call this a full time job.
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Dec 16, 2015 11:45
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there's a new shadows over innistrad picture or something featured that shows jace and people are speculating because of the black tones and shades he have we might be getting a Dimir Jace Walker
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Dec 16, 2015 14:20
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That or everything had shadows over it back in Innistrad and he might just be blue as usual. He might have a blacker than usual ability because Innistrad, but I doubt he'll do a Garruk.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:23
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rabidsquid posted:There was a full spoiler a few years ago because of that godbook nonsense but I can't remember the consequences here other than people arguing whether or not having access to the godbook for playtesting purposes was significant Long suspensions. The person who leaked it, and the person who was responsible for giving it to the leaker both got long suspensions. http://www.gatheringmagic.com/matignon-wafo-tapa-suspended-for-godbook-leak/
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Dec 16, 2015 14:31
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Angry Grimace posted:I mean, we coulda talked about the "what's the play" but everyone hates Twin, so... Twin gotcha's poor-mediocre players who think playing around it is some huge drawback. Its funny how Jund manages to wipe the floor with Twin generally and it "has to hold up two mana for abrupt decay all the time" it isn't some insanely burdensome restriction that can't be surmounted. Yes you don't do stuff, but also neither do they if they aren't twinning. If they're just sitting on remand and you're sitting on a removal spell, nothing happens. Then you build up mana, put out your threats and still have the ability to deal with twin. Or you play on their turn as much as possible and force them into bad situations. Watch a really good burn player who has excellent sequencing and timing dismantle a Twin player. It is beautiful.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:37
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jassi007 posted:Twin gotcha's poor-mediocre players who think playing around it is some huge drawback. Its funny how Jund manages to wipe the floor with Twin Isn't that in large part due to discard?
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Dec 16, 2015 14:39
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I wonder how much of a hit Jace takes once Khans rotates and fetches leave standard. He's still good, but reliably filling your graveyard with 2-3 cards by turn 3 or 4 just by playing lands absolutely contributes to his current power level (and his power level in older formats). He risks becoming way more Merfolk Looter and way less Reusable Snapcaster Mage.
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Dec 16, 2015 14:50
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Rinkles posted:Isn't that in large part due to discard? Jund has many 1 and 2 cmc answers to Twin. They have to get to 5 or 6 mana and pray that you don't have abrupt decay while not getting killed by a goyf or wrecked by a liliana. Also pestermite sucks because it turns on Bolt to stop the combo. If you can pressure them as Jund you can force them to try to twin without countermagic backup and terminate them and you always have slaughter pact as an option to get them when they think the coast is clear.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:10
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MiddleEastBeast posted:I wonder how much of a hit Jace takes once Khans rotates and fetches leave standard. He's still good, but reliably filling your graveyard with 2-3 cards by turn 3 or 4 just by playing lands absolutely contributes to his current power level (and his power level in older formats). He risks becoming way more Merfolk Looter and way less Reusable Snapcaster Mage. Which in a low power graveyard heavy format you probably don't mind much
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Dec 16, 2015 15:17
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Flashback is almost certainly going to be a good reason to play straight Merfolk Looter also.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:21
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TheKingofSprings posted:Which in a low power graveyard heavy format you probably don't mind much Yeah I can only see Jace becoming better once SOI comes out unless they do something dumb and make the set not graveyard focused
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Dec 16, 2015 15:47
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Speculating on Jace's power post-rotation is way, way too early. It might be better to have looting for longer in SOI standard, it might not! No one knows, so the only real thing we can say is that jace is easier to flip with fetchlands than without. We don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing for his playability.
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Dec 16, 2015 15:48
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