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RoadCrewWorker posted:These are all splendid suggestions and i cant wait for them to be ignored for 7-8 months until they cherrypick one sentence from that spider post up there and make players insta-killed by his charge slashes burst into a dozen crawlers. Gonna be real honest that would be extremely cool (w/o the invulnerability obviously)
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Dec 17, 2015 02:01
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Shumagorath posted:Does the Microwave gun alt-fire stop Hans? I know stopping power varies wildly in this game (i.e. 20 AA-12 shells don't completely disintegrate a Fleshpound's head) but you'd think the one attack designed to be a gigantic shove-bubble would do it. It's supposed to...
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Dec 17, 2015 02:01
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i actually like crawlers when I'm playing firebug drat horror queefs posted:Edit: making the shield REDUCE damage instead of nullifying it would be so much better cause at least the player would have something to do instead of waiting or running away technically the shield is like 90% dr so it's not "totally" nullified, but if we're engineering shield-state changes one thing I'd like to test is hans to shield and stay stationary for a small period of time before he goes into a heal-attack state since there is no realistic way to kill him once the shield goes up. patriarch running to heal gives the team the opportunity to the same thing. Hans draining does nothing of the sort - he just keeps loving you. but that said I still think for any actual feedback to twi it's critical to focus on the one thing (his melee) which is the most broken (gently caress hans melee) which is loving the game today. Fix that and the rest can come later. Psion fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 02:01
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It looks like the bubble spawned behind him and pushed him into the player. I don't even know what to say.
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Dec 17, 2015 02:48
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Psion posted:technically the shield is like 90% dr so it's not "totally" nullified, but if we're engineering shield-state changes one thing I'd like to test is hans to shield and stay stationary for a small period of time before he goes into a heal-attack state since there is no realistic way to kill him once the shield goes up. ohhh cool. I had no idea. Still, you're always so strapped for ammo cause it's such a long loving fight that there's no goddamn reason to even bother if you're doing 1/10th of the damage, ESPECIALLY if he's just gonna recover it anyway. If it were a 50%-ish reduction or something like that at least you'd have an option (practically speaking) to choose to keep firing. If the thematic idea behind the Hans fight is that there's supposed to be non-stop pressure on the players, cause he's always chasing you, then it breaks up the flow when you can't really hurt him for extended periods of time.
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Dec 17, 2015 03:07
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Yeah there's zero reason to shoot Hans when the shield comes up all things considered.
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Dec 17, 2015 03:18
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I don't get the complaints about the shield, its just his I'm going to heal mechanism, the real issue is that as others have said it leads to him gently caress you still because he is draining a player and when he's done he's right in your face, though he generally tosses nades when he comes out of the heal but he is still right loving there and ready to rush someone. The heal on the higher difficulties goes back to my medic complaint about them being over nerfed, on Sui and HoE hans will leave a full health zerker with like 10 health tops, his drain is FAST although it can't actually kill you and the medic heal has trouble keep up right now with such a severe drain.
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Dec 17, 2015 03:32
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Yeah I remember Tripwire saying something like Hans is the anti-patriarch in that he has the shield to prevent people from killing him like the Pat before he could heal and he's relentless instead of running off all the time. So in my opinion I would nerf his melee, because if he's not doing 75 damage per hit then it's not as much an issue if he gets 2 or 3 quick slashes in. Buff his gas a bit in return and maybe have the health he regains based off the health he drains from a player, because when he grabs someone he seems to do percentage-based damage so being grabbed isn't a death sentence if you're critically hurt. I could see that being exploited though so maybe instead something like a taunt or warm-up period (like 10-15 seconds) where he's moving slower or standing in place after healing to give everyone a chance to move/regroup/heal would work, with his stupid shield still up to prevent people from using that to cheese him and it goes away once he's ready to start hunting again and moves at full speed. Abandoned Toaster fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 04:11
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I feel like doing some shitposting so here's an idea absolutely no one should consider, least of all Tripwire: When Hans gets low enough on health and shields up, instead of draining a player he runs off to the spawning specimens and starts killing them to refill his health. Players can kill specimens first to deny Hans some of his health regen, and once Hans has healed fully or there are no more specimens the shield turns off and the next phase properly starts. it's a cute idea but likely abysmal in execution, maybe that can be the matriarch's thing. mama gotta eat her babies
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Dec 17, 2015 04:15
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instead of spawning hordes of zeds hans spawns one (1) scrake per regen phase e: reskinned to look more frankensteiny/nazi superscience-y/wolfensteiny
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Dec 17, 2015 04:16
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Lets make it so Hans has a shield that lasts until you kill 3 fleshpounds that spawn every time he refills his health. Oh, and while the fleshpounds are up, he's in a berserk rage and only does his melee attacks while moving and attacking 150% faster than he already does. While we're at it, lets make these fleshpounds special ones that take 1/3 as much damage from explosives, so you still have no reason to play a demo in any boss phase. Fixed. The Big Bad Worf fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 04:45
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Perks should really start at level 5. I ended up boosting everything just so I could start feeling the class differentiation (that said I feel like until Sharp comes along I'll be Firebug/Support all the time).
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Dec 17, 2015 05:03
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President Ark posted:instead of spawning hordes of zeds hans spawns one (1) scrake per regen phase They could always have him run off to heal and the scrake you speak off shows up(already enraged of course.)
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Dec 17, 2015 05:11
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OneDeadlyBum posted:While we're at it, lets make these fleshpounds special ones that take 1/3 as much damage from explosives, so you still have no reason to play a demo in any boss phase. 
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Dec 17, 2015 05:11
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Theta Zero posted:Cysts are my second favorite because of how dumb they are. They laugh like idiots when they manage to kill somebody, and their spawn animation for falling through vents is them literally ragdolling through them. I've had a vent actually get clogged by ragdolling cysts that were still alive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkZKXtwALQM truth You can hear the voice actor almost laugh in some of them
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Dec 17, 2015 05:57
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I'm not even halfway through and my throat already hurts by proxy.
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Dec 17, 2015 07:54
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 Long barrel revolver.
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Dec 17, 2015 08:05
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Theta Zero posted:
"And this is for shooting down police helicopters."
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Dec 17, 2015 08:45
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Theta Zero posted:
1989 called, Joker wants his gun back.
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Dec 17, 2015 09:03
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Abandoned Toaster posted:Yeah I remember Tripwire saying something like Hans is the anti-patriarch in that he has the shield to prevent people from killing him like the Pat before he could heal and he's relentless instead of running off all the time. He's the anti-patriarch in the sense that the patriarch is a fun challenge whereas hans is about as fun as a child's funeral.
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Dec 17, 2015 09:53
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FAUXTON posted:He's the anti-patriarch in the sense that the patriarch is a fun challenge whereas hans is about as fun as a child's funeral. A child's funeral is fun if you've got a berserker. But I'm not sure if it's fun just because we're winning.
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Dec 17, 2015 09:59
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First time poster in the thread here, but wasn't the Pat way, way harder in KF1? He's really fun to fight in this one, but I pretty much never lose. Old Pat, I remember his chain gun would take you out in a second, and just the splash damage from his rockets could kill you outright. On Normal at least, Hans pretty much feels the same way that I remember the old Pat, only this time you can't kill him quickly. I don't have an intimate knowledge of damage and stats that everyone else has though, so I'm just going by feeling.
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Dec 17, 2015 17:47
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unkle77 posted:First time poster in the thread here, but wasn't the Pat way, way harder in KF1? He's really fun to fight in this one, but I pretty much never lose. Old Pat, I remember his chain gun would take you out in a second, and just the splash damage from his rockets could kill you outright. yeah there is your issue, you are playing normal. Everything is easy in Normal. I've lost a few times to Pat on Hard and above, mostly due to missiles. And his loving mortar barage. Its so loving awesome, but man it wrecks teams. "You better run now"
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Dec 17, 2015 18:08
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also as far as I understand, comparing 1 to 2 should work like this: KF2 normal = new easy KF2 hard = KF1 normal KF2 suicidal = KF1 hard But I read that a long time ago so  either way Patriarch's chaingun rapidly becomes a big deal when you climb difficulties. It's also possible playercount scaling is loving with you. It's apparently a big difference and it's really hard to control for. I think it scales unfairly hard against a 5/6 playercount group - like FP head hitpoints go up astronomically. Do they think all 6 players will all perfectly headshot every FP? aha, no. Does this therefore hurt the headshot-seeking classes like commando and gunslinger, yes. But that's basically invisible fuckery as far as players are concerned so it's hard to figure out. For all I know Pat's chaingun works the same way. 6 players? MAGICALLY STRONGER! Psion fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 18:16
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Ok cool, I think that explains it then. In KF1, I thought playing higher difficulties was just so enemy strength would scale to increased perks/stats. In KF2, it's sort of like, "Well, I'm tired of winning." It's very weird. I use to just go SS all the time on suicidal in KF1, and while it was frantic, I felt like I knew how to kill the big zeds. Now there is a general kind of weirdness about the controls and feel of everything that I can't explain-- it's like I can't tell if any of my guns are doing anything. I used to know exactly how to take out a scrake or fleshpound with every class, and now I just feel like I'm dumping rounds into everything at random and reloading as necessary. It's fun, but accuracy doesn't seem to matter much with the big guys, or they're moving so fast that magdumping is the only choice. Was it easier to pop big zed heads in KF1? I can get everything small, but the sc/fps just seem impossible to accurately hit in the head, and it doesn't seem to matter anyway.
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Dec 17, 2015 18:33
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unkle77 posted:Ok cool, I think that explains it then. In KF1, I thought playing higher difficulties was just so enemy strength would scale to increased perks/stats. In KF2, it's sort of like, "Well, I'm tired of winning." Yeah the scrakes take a lot of damage from headshots but once they aggro it seems to be more worthwhile to just magdump. The strategy for fleshpounds on the other hand seems to be hurling as many grenades as you can spare at them. Going for headshots against either one seems a waste of time.
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Dec 17, 2015 18:36
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PantsBandit posted:Yeah the scrakes take a lot of damage from headshots but once they aggro it seems to be more worthwhile to just magdump. The strategy for fleshpounds on the other hand seems to be hurling as many grenades as you can spare at them. Going for headshots against either one seems a waste of time. Fleshpounds actually have armoured faces, meaning that bullets will actually do less damage on headshots. Their actual weak spot is the glowing crystal on their chest, which is why they protect it with their arms while they're charging.
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Dec 17, 2015 18:40
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Psion posted:also as far as I understand, comparing 1 to 2 should work like this: I'm going to  but Pat has a rotary gun, not a chaingun.
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Dec 17, 2015 18:49
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well, sure, but unkle called it a chaingun so I did too. This isn't like mag vs clip, which matters. 
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Dec 17, 2015 18:59
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Psion posted:well, sure, but unkle called it a chaingun so I did too. This isn't like mag vs clip, which matters. It was most certainly does to Patty. He'll never get anywhere maintaining his rotary gun with a chainguns technical manual But really, where did Questioner disappear to?
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Dec 17, 2015 19:05
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PantsBandit posted:Yeah the scrakes take a lot of damage from headshots but once they aggro it seems to be more worthwhile to just magdump. The strategy for fleshpounds on the other hand seems to be hurling as many grenades as you can spare at them. Going for headshots against either one seems a waste of time. best strat for pounds should be for a Zerk to aggro him with a pulverizer while everyone else mag dumps into him, preferably the head. The Zerk can parry and block while knocking him on the head and getting him to his knees with Smash. plus the pulverizer does explosive damage which pounds are weak to. Done right the pound doesnt last long enough to recover from smash. I've gotten to the point (at least on hard and suicidal) where I can solo single Fleshpounds and Scrakes as a Zerk on a team as long as the trash keeps off me. On hard i have been known to solo dual Fleshpounds you just have to be smart about it. It feels bad rear end a gently caress when you can take down two fleshpounds and their little scrake follower by yourself. Unfortunately the situation is a bit sad because if you are doing it alone, it means the rest of your team wiped or ran away 
She Bangs the Drums fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 19:14
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I've tried to push him away several times but the game either ports him right back at you or makes him heavier then a FP so he doesn't really go anywhere. Hans is still dumb.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:16
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Perestroika posted:Fleshpounds actually have armoured faces, meaning that bullets will actually do less damage on headshots. Their actual weak spot is the glowing crystal on their chest, which is why they protect it with their arms while they're charging. This kind of thing is mystifying to me. I wouldn't know anything about this game if I didn't sperg out in forums dedicated to understanding it. I guess a new player would instinctively shoot at the bright part, but coming from KF1 or any other FPS, you'd think headshots would have to count more, right? I didn't even know that Hans becomes invincible until someone in a server told me. Stupid question, but why is anything invincible in an FPS? E: Wait, are you loving with me on the fleshpound light? I'm too new to this game to tell.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:17
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unkle77 posted:This kind of thing is mystifying to me. I wouldn't know anything about this game if I didn't sperg out in forums dedicated to understanding it. I guess a new player would instinctively shoot at the bright part, but coming from KF1 or any other FPS, you'd think headshots would have to count more, right? yeah the glowy bits are weak points, but the chest thing still only counts towards body health. in KF2 head and body have different health pools, with the head having smaller health pools. It's always best to aim for the head. If you are coming from KF1 and played mainly SS i can understand why it feels odd since SS isnt in KF2 yet. Zeds react differently in KF2, with stumbles and flinches when shot or hit. It's not the same game as KF1. I think a lot of KF1 players have this cognitive disconnect because they think its going to be like KF1 and its really not. You will get used to it. She Bangs the Drums fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 19:21
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It's always best to aim for the head, where you will miss 3/4ths of your shots, instead of the body where you will hit all of them?
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Dec 17, 2015 19:26
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CJacobs posted:It's always best to aim for the head, where you will miss 3/4ths of your shots, instead of the body where you will hit all of them? I mostly play commando or Zerk so headshots are kinda my thing. Do what you need to do to survive. in an ideal world headshots are best, but if a Fleshpound has you pinned up against a truck for example, mag dump into his body all the way. NO means NO fleshpound!
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Dec 17, 2015 19:29
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Speaking of the chest weakpoint I don't really find it all that useful as a weak point. It's constantly guarded because he's charging or just really odd to shoot at when he's up in your grill. I find the head much easier to shoot at at all times with him. So pretty much the only time I've got a clear shot at his chest weak point is when he isn't enraged and is far enough back, and that doesn't last long at all. And if it has the same damage modifier as the head, then why bother at all?
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Dec 17, 2015 19:35
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Wrong thread I am silly. Still, I wish I wasn't so garbage at headshots when it matters. Close your eyes and every shot in your clip/mag/tube will headshot trash, but need to land more than two consecutive headshots on the same target and I might as well throw my mouse against the wall and hope that nails it. Is there a trick to solo killing Gorefasts safer with the CnB without emptying half your canister into it, on that note? They don't really care they are on fire and most will see "On fire=don't waste ammo" and they make me feel like I'm loving up with the class in a very basic manner. Section Z fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 22:51
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That google doc file on KF2 lists headshot damage as only an extra 10%. If they upped that to something serious you'd be bothered more about it. With smaller zeds it makes a difference as they have so few hitpoints, but I'm not sure 10% makes enough of a difference for the big stuff.
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Dec 17, 2015 23:39
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Section Z posted:Wrong thread I am silly. What gun are you using to get headshots with? Something automatic or burst fire might help you. Once you have a grasp on the recoil you can just drag bursts across the head region and at least one of the shots will find its target. That's how I normally take out sirens. Even with the screen shaking around I can generally get the headshots if I just throw out consistent lines.
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Dec 17, 2015 23:42
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