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Soy Division
Aug 12, 2004

Disney is already retrofitting their existing parks with tons of SW stuff.

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Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Evil Fluffy posted:

Disney has already made back the money they spent on Star Wars IIRC.

Nobody of note has ever thought Disney wouldn't make their investment back pretty quickly. One of the biggest IPs in the world in the hands of one of the most well-known corporations in the world? Even making a TV show like The [s]Ewok[/]s Jar-Jar Adventures wouldn't be enough to derail the gravy train.


Disney could've paid 10 billion for it and it'd still have been seen as a good move on their part. They are going to make obscene amounts of money off of Star Wars. That Episode 7 is also really good only reinforces that. The only real question is when and where will the Disney Star Wars theme park open up, and will they make an Epcot-sized Death Star structure in the middle? Because they totally should.




they are eventually. as well as a marvel park. i thought they have handled star wars and marvel pretty well.

Islam is the Lite Rock FM
Jul 27, 2007

by exmarx
Disney Death Star must have a giant laser that points at a random guest every hour else it's a complete failure.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Visceral Realism posted:

If i remember correctly, the stimulus was really good for solar. Either that chart is reflecting actual market costs, so reflecting all the rebates and tax breaks and grants going towards the projects, or it's just reflecting that those incentives helped push money into R&D.

Oh, that makes a ton of sense, thanks.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Mr Interweb posted:

So I was reading an article that mentioned how the new spending bill extended solar and wind tax credits, which is good. However, it also said that solar penetration in the U.S. is less than half a loving percent?! How the hell is it so low? Haven't we had solar for decades now? :psyduck:

The US produces assloads of energy. That 0.4% of total US electricity production is still 16.37 billion kilowatthours. And wind is far more popular and productive.

Here's what the whole picture is:

Coal = 39%
Natural gas = 27%
Nuclear = 19%
Hydropower = 6%
Other renewables = 7% {Biomass = 1.7% Geothermal = 0.4% Solar = 0.4% Wind = 4.4%}
Petroleum = 1%
Other gases < 1%

The total is 4 trillion kilowatthours of production for 2014.

fishmech fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Dec 19, 2015

BlueBlazer
Apr 1, 2010

theblackw0lf posted:

If the Clinton campaign was smart they'd ask the DNC to reinstate VAN access to the Sanders campaign.

As far as IT policy goes, the Bernie campaign does have a beef with what I'm reading in that suit.

The breach's responsabilities lies with the DNC, not the Bernie campaign. If information of confidential nature was leaked but software bugs from the DNC they should be held liable.

If a bug in facebook suddenly revealed everyones PM's for 4 hours then shut it off, it's not my fault for looking it's Facebooks fault for letting a bug like that into the wild, they control the data, not me.

This is a chance for the Bernie campaign to make a clear technical argument about IT policy and it's uses in Gov. and the ways it can very easily be abused.

HRC should be just as pissed at the DNC for f***ing it up, joining in with another lawsuit. If her campaign isn't I would start to be very suspect of where the bug came from.

BlueBlazer fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Dec 19, 2015

Islam is the Lite Rock FM
Jul 27, 2007

by exmarx

fishmech posted:

The US produces assloads of energy. That 0.4% of total US electricity production is still 16.37 billion kilowatthours. And wind is far more popular and productive.

Here's what the whole picture is:

Coal = 39%
Natural gas = 27%
Nuclear = 19%
Hydropower = 6%
Other renewables = 7%
Biomass = 1.7%
Geothermal = 0.4%
Solar = 0.4%
Wind = 4.4%
Petroleum = 1%
Other gases < 1%

The total is 4 trillion kilowatthours of production for 2014.

That's a lot of loving radioactivity and mercury shoved into a fire.

Mitt Romney
Nov 9, 2005
dumb and bad

BlueBlazer posted:

As far as IT policy goes, the Bernie campaign does have a beef with what I'm reading in that suit.

The breach's responsabilities lies with the DNC, not the Bernie campaign. If information of confidential nature was leaked but software bugs from the DNC they should be held liable.

This is a chance for the Bernie campaign to make a clear technical argument about IT policy and it's uses in Gov. and the ways it can very easily be abused.

HRC should be just as pissed at the DNC for f***ing it up, joining in with another lawsuit. If her campaign isn't I would start to be very suspect of where the bug came from.

The Sanders campaign did not receive the Clinton data from a bug.

The Sanders campaign staffers (4) actively exploited a bug to improperly access and save proprietary Clinton voter data for 40 minutes. In addition one staffer attempted to hide two folders of Clinton data.

Also the lawsuit is strictly about the punishment and really has nothing to do with admittance of guilt (which they have via firing).

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

Mitt Romney posted:

The Sanders campaign did not receive the Clinton data from a bug.

The Sanders campaign staffers (4) actively exploited a bug to improperly access and save proprietary Clinton voter data for 40 minutes.

And then the Sanders campaign told the Clinton campaign what its staffers did, and fired them. Meanwhile you're posting like some Trump supporter.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Mitt Romney posted:

The Sanders campaign did not receive the Clinton data from a bug.

The Sanders campaign staffers (4) actively exploited a bug to improperly access and save proprietary Clinton voter data for 40 minutes.

This included doing specific searches for voters the Clinton campaign labeled as highly lightly to support or on the fence about voting.

Honestly, this seems like a case of someone assuming both sides would do the same thing instead of realizing it is a tarp.

Mitt Romney
Nov 9, 2005
dumb and bad

Nonsense posted:

And then the Sanders campaign told the Clinton campaign what its staffers did, and fired them. Meanwhile you're posting like some Trump supporter.

Wrong. The first party to notify of the improper access was the vendor to the DNC. Then the DNC took action. The Sanders campaign did not notify of the improper access before that time.

pathetic little tramp
Dec 12, 2005

by Hillary Clinton's assassins
Fallen Rib
What's kind of obvious is the bug was somehow time-based. They stole personal information from voters for 40 minutes, what made them stop? The DNC didn't suddenly close the bug right then. Plus you have the guy who hacked people's vital info saying he had noticed the bug before - so how do we know this was the only time he exploited it to gain access to people's information he should not have had access to?

Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

Nonsense posted:

And then the Sanders campaign told the Clinton campaign what its staffers did, and fired them. Meanwhile you're posting like some Trump supporter.

No, they only owned up to it after they got their access cut off. And they only fired one of the four.

pathetic little tramp posted:

What's kind of obvious is the bug was somehow time-based. They stole personal information from voters for 40 minutes, what made them stop? The DNC didn't suddenly close the bug right then. Plus you have the guy who hacked people's vital info saying he had noticed the bug before - so how do we know this was the only time he exploited it to gain access to people's information he should not have had access to?

Given that the bad code was only live for about four hours, my guess is that they only did it for 40 minutes because that was the time from their noticing it to when the system got taken down to fix the bug.

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

Mitt Romney posted:

Wrong. The first party to notify of the improper access was the vendor to the DNC. Then the DNC took action. The Sanders campaign did not notify of the improper access before that time.

Ah, that is correct, thank you, I had forgotten about the vendor company.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

This wouldn't look as bad if someone else from some state party or pac had also used the bug to download data, but no one else did, so it looks worse.

Mitt Romney
Nov 9, 2005
dumb and bad

pathetic little tramp posted:

What's kind of obvious is the bug was somehow time-based. They stole personal information from voters for 40 minutes, what made them stop? The DNC didn't suddenly close the bug right then. Plus you have the guy who hacked people's vital info saying he had noticed the bug before - so how do we know this was the only time he exploited it to gain access to people's information he should not have had access to?

There was no bug before- it was misinformation from the Sanders campaign and related to a different vendor (not NGP VAN):

quote:

Second, there has been independent confirmation that NGP VAN has not received previous notice of a data breach regarding NGP VAN. Josh Uretsky, the former National Data Director for the Sanders campaign confirmed on MSNBC (at 5:47), and also on CNN, regarding the previous incident: “it wasn’t actually within the VAN VoteBuilder system, it was another system.”

BlueBlazer
Apr 1, 2010

Mitt Romney posted:

The Sanders campaign did not receive the Clinton data from a bug.

The Sanders campaign staffers (4) actively exploited a bug to improperly access and save proprietary Clinton voter data for 40 minutes.

Your statement contridicts itself.

Also I want some clear technicallities on this bug, could of been a feature as far as the staffer was concerned.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Nonsense posted:

Ah, that is correct, thank you, I had forgotten about the vendor company.

Really the fact that NGP-VAN has a monopoly on the business niche because of their contracts with DNC and state parties is the biggest gently caress up of all of this. The party isn't served by being vendor locked.


But then again, you should see the horrible names people get called on progex who dare to defend using Nationbuilder

Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

BlueBlazer posted:

Your statement contridicts itself.

Also I want some clear technicallities on this bug, could of been a feature as far as the staffer was concerned.

The bug allowed them to access the Clinton campaigns internal scoring of voter support level. They admitted they knew what they were seeing was stuff they weren't supposed to be able to see.

But sure, it was an innocent error.

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

fishmech posted:

The US produces assloads of energy. That 0.4% of total US electricity production is still 16.37 billion kilowatthours. And wind is far more popular and productive.

Here's what the whole picture is:

Coal = 39%
Natural gas = 27%
Nuclear = 19%
Hydropower = 6%
Other renewables = 7% {Biomass = 1.7% Geothermal = 0.4% Solar = 0.4% Wind = 4.4%}
Petroleum = 1%
Other gases < 1%

The total is 4 trillion kilowatthours of production for 2014.

So solar's actually doing pretty good then?

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ

Trabisnikof posted:

Really the fact that NGP-VAN has a monopoly on the business niche because of their contracts with DNC and state parties is the biggest gently caress up of all of this.

No, that's the whole point. Because after this primary is over the nominee gets all the data, along with all the other Democrats running for office.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Joementum posted:

No, that's the whole point. Because after this primary is over the nominee gets all the data, along with all the other Democrats running for office.

You need to in-house the data store and force your vendors to tie in, you want to the same effect without the single vendor lock in.

theblackw0lf
Apr 15, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"
Tweets based off a conference call with Clinton Campaign Manager

quote:

‏@ZekeJMiller

Mook says campaign is "Particularly concerned by the way the Sanders campaign has misrepresented" what happened

Mook: "Our data was stolen. It was not an inadvertent glimpse"

Mook: "We have been told they have in fact stored the date they found on the file. data that belongs to us"

Mook: "This is data that took millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of volunteer hours to build"

Mook says whomever accessed Clinton data "Had access to the fundamental keys of our campaign"

Mook: "This breach is totally unacceptable, and may have been a violation of the law"

Mook: "Deeply disturbed" that Sanders campaign is trying to fundraise off the data breach

Mook: "We need to be sure that the Sanders campaign no longer has access to our data"

Mook says there was "One effort...to export the data into an excel spreadsheet" after NGP-VAN informed Sanders campaign of breach

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ

Trabisnikof posted:

You need to in-house the data store and force your vendors to tie in, you want to the same effect without the single vendor lock in.

Vendors housing data with an extraction clause is incredibly common and a routine business practice. There's no need for the DNC to build its own data warehouse, which they'd inevitably need to contract out anyway.

Soy Division
Aug 12, 2004

Fire this incompetent side-taking unprofessional. It's disgusting: no one has any conscious anymore and everyone has a price.
Tell me Debbie: how much did shillery's campaign manager promise you if you helped undermine sander's campaign? A spot in the cabinet? Money? Favors?
Go to hell you but not before you download everything twice.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Mr Interweb posted:

So solar's actually doing pretty good then?

Yeah I mean, part of it is that solar always has a disadvantage in total generation because, well, it doesn't work at night and has reduced effectiveness on cloudy/rainy days. Wind produces 11 times as much because there's a lot of places you can put it across the US that'll at least manage partial capacity generation 24/7, and there's also been viable wind production for a lot longer.

Soy Division
Aug 12, 2004

Hell yes. Bern the DNC and DWC to the ground. Bern bern yes you're gonna bern. Yes you're gonna Bern Bern yes you're gonna Bern.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Joementum posted:

Vendors housing data with an extraction clause is incredibly common and a routine business practice. There's no need for the DNC to build its own data warehouse, which they'd inevitably need to contract out anyway.

I grant you that, but last I knew it was still difficult for campaigns to use vendors other than ngp-van and maintain data consistency with the party. Even if it was ngp-van contracted to build the interface that allows other vendors to be used by campaigns it would be better than the vendor lockin that exists.

pathetic little tramp
Dec 12, 2005

by Hillary Clinton's assassins
Fallen Rib

Mitt Romney posted:

There was no bug before- it was misinformation from the Sanders campaign and related to a different vendor (not NGP VAN):

Yeah this is what confused me, they were saying they'd seen the bug before so I was thrown for a loop - a temporary bug from a patch makes the most sense now.

Kilroy
Oct 1, 2000

Trabisnikof posted:

No, you're right, I think the Clinton campaign would have fought it harder with the DNC directly and likely used their influence to stop such a reaction.
The Clinton campaign would not have had to do even that, as the possibility that they might lose access wouldn't have even come up.

quote:

I still think if they get their data connection back soon enough, this should hopefully all be a meaningless and very stupid spat.

As to people swallowing their pride, when the scale of the issues of climate change, income inequality, and a Republican Party that's currently led by the "bomb their families and journalists" faction, I can't help but hope that anyone who really believes in the issues would see the essential nature of the choice.

If someone's vote for Sanders is about tribalism, sticking it to Clinton, or some fundamental litmus test, you're right that there's not much to be done about them.
Let's flip that around. With all that is at stake, why risk alienating potential voters in the general to kneecap a candidate who has no chance of getting the nomination anyway?

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ

Trabisnikof posted:

I grant you that, but last I knew it was still difficult for campaigns to use vendors other than ngp-van and maintain data consistency with the party. Even if it was ngp-van contracted to build the interface that allows other vendors to be used by campaigns it would be better than the vendor lockin that exists.

Possibly, but I'm not sure what advantage there would be for the campaigns to do that, particularly because NGP-VAN contains data collected by past campaigns, which they get to use.

theblackw0lf
Apr 15, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"

Mitt Romney posted:

There was no bug before- it was misinformation from the Sanders campaign and related to a different vendor (not NGP VAN):

That would mean the lawsuit they filed contained at least partial misinformation.

Wouldn't that likely come back to bite them in the rear end, as that seems easily verifiable?

Freakazoid_
Jul 5, 2013


Buglord
The primaries are no longer about finding an acceptable candidate we can all agree on, but a circus act for all walks of life on the internet to extract schadenfreude from whomever they think the losing side will be. We have no idea who we're really electing anymore, only our thirst for psychological bloodlust matters.

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

Freakazoid_ posted:

The primaries are no longer about finding an acceptable candidate we can all agree on, but a circus act for all walks of life on the internet to extract schadenfreude from whomever they think the losing side will be. We have no idea who we're really electing anymore, only our thirst for psychological bloodlust matters.

Sure, but it's nice to be right all along no? :smug:

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Trabisnikof posted:

I grant you that, but last I knew it was still difficult for campaigns to use vendors other than ngp-van and maintain data consistency with the party. Even if it was ngp-van contracted to build the interface that allows other vendors to be used by campaigns it would be better than the vendor lockin that exists.

Because half the time the interface won't work.

And when the campaign is over and broke who is going to pay to fix it?


Having a single source of truth and system of record is worth a vendor lock in.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Kilroy posted:

The Clinton campaign would not have had to do even that, as the possibility that they might lose access wouldn't have even come up.

Sure, you can call people liars because you distrust them, but it is just your gut and a lack of evidence to back you up.



Kilroy posted:

Let's flip that around. With all that is at stake, why risk alienating potential voters in the general to kneecap a candidate who has no chance of getting the nomination anyway?

Or there's an alternative explanation that this isn't a grand conspiracy? Instead an overreaction from an organization that's not known for its technical knowhow. Watergate comes to mind quickly and that comparison sheds light on the response.


Joementum posted:

Possibly, but I'm not sure what advantage there would be for the campaigns to do that, particularly because NGP-VAN contains data collected by past campaigns, which they get to use.

I guess that's part of what I mean, ngp-van gets a data based advantage that can help strangle competition that could provide better campaign tools. If the party was a better arbiter of that data, any D campaign no matter what vendor they pick would be getting as much data as possible.


Xae posted:

Because half the time the interface won't work.

And when the campaign is over and broke who is going to pay to fix it?


Having a single source of truth and system of record is worth a vendor lock in.

Why would that have to be true? Would they have contracted a Republican company?

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Kilroy posted:

The Clinton campaign would not have had to do even that, as the possibility that they might lose access wouldn't have even come up.

Let's flip that around. With all that is at stake, why risk alienating potential voters in the general to kneecap a candidate who has no chance of getting the nomination anyway?

From an insider friend of mine who organizes fieldwork for campaigns.

quote:

The staffer in question stole millions of dollars of proprietary information, had at least three subordinates (including a Deputy National Data Director) do the same thing, and then attempted to hide the evidence once he'd done it. When they say "we didn't save any data" that tells me that they created dynamic (rather than static) lists. This is actually even worse, since the dynamic list updates every time new data comes in. That tells me that Sanders' data people planned for this theft to be ongoing. When they hid the folders, and the way they hid the folders (according to news reports), it looks suspiciously like they were trying to hide what was going on so that they could keep the theft undiscovered and steal data over the long haul.

The DNC's actions are politically questionable purely because they risk alienating a number of Sanders supporters. As a matter of contract law though, I've reviewed a version of the contract that Sanders' campaign is likely to have signed (they all have a core of standard provisions related to data.) Not only are NGP-VAN and the DNC totally within their rights to shut Sanders' access to the data down, but they say that they will in exactly this situation half a dozen times. Furthermore, Sanders' campaign hasn't fired all the staffers responsible (and who it knows to be responsible.) It has only fired it's National Data Director, who it described as a "low level staffer."

The problem for the DNC is that Sanders' campaign put them into this position, and they really did not have a good path other than the one that they chose.

I won't go into it in any further detail here. If you have further specific questions, feel free to PM me. If I can answer, I will. If I can't; I won't. I will say one thing further though: The last 24 hours have really done a lot to confirm for me that I made the right choice staying the hell away from Sanders' shady operation.

Kilroy
Oct 1, 2000

Gail Wynand posted:

Realchat the US is the only developed country that taxes foreign earnings and it's an idiotic policy
I haven't read the specifics, but I'll be surprised if the tax break for foreign earnings applies ordinary citizens, rather that being targeted specifically at our superhuman corporate overlords.

And anyway, you'll still have to file, even if your tax liability is zero, and don't even get me starting on the onerous FINRA reporting requirements and the fact that the US is such a pain in the rear end about this stuff that many foreign banks are starting to just straight-out refuse to do business with Americans.

Most Americans seem to think that if you dare to live and work outside the US, you are something like a traitor, and American tax policy really reflects that.

Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

theblackw0lf posted:

That would mean the lawsuit they filed contained at least partial misinformation.

Wouldn't that likely come back to bite them in the rear end, as that seems easily verifiable?

Nah. Lawyers probably got misinformation and they'll file an amended complaint reflecting that.

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CroatianAlzheimers
Jun 15, 2009

I can't remember why I'm mad at you...


Mr. Wookums posted:

Michigan is in a state of perpetual white flight.

Jesus, that's the truth. Michigan is by far the most racist place I've ever lived in the north.

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