|
MoreLikeTen posted:I honestly think she was just there to sell toys, and they needed to squeeze some lines in She's also confirmed for Episode VIII. I'm guessing she'll be either voluntarily gone from or hunted by the First Order for her failure, and out for revenge on Finn. That would actually be a pretty decent thing for Finn to be dealing with while Rey is with Luke...
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 01:01 |
|
|
Just returned from the theatre. Managed to avoid all and any critics reviews, previews and spoilers, so I was a blank slate. I had seen the modern Star Trek movies and thought they were pretty good. The sets looked pretty amazing and felt real. $200M is there on the screen. The villain was pretty cool. They sure tried to pay homage to the 1970s/80s originals. Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, the works. Lots of references and patting themselves on the back. But here's the problem. The people who grew up with the original series are grown up now, and would expect films to have grown up as well. The expectations are high. It didn't meet them. The starring young actors weren't bad, but they were bland, and they were playing even blander characters. The pacing and flow of the movie feels off. They throw at us people we don't know, and leave their motivations vague, so particularly in the first half it's hard to tell what was the point of any of this, what point does anything on the screen really serve. Did we ever learn what was Rey's problem that she couldn't get over leaving her shithole planet? Sorry for using big words, but the film has no emotional gravitas. Not much more than Episode I-III really. Stuff blows up good, but it's still a bit boring. Biggest problem, and I hate myself for saying it, is that there's no George Lucas. Yes, the man can't write dialogue for poo poo. But at least he has a vision, even if he's poo poo at directing people. He threw a lot of stuff in his movies in an attempt to entertain. This movie has writing that isn't outright cringeworthy, but on the other hand ADDS NOTHING. It has NO invention of its own. It ONLY rehashes what was there from the original trilogy. The plot is utterly by the numbers -- you could hardly write a more generic Star Wars script. All this movie has to offer is a BB droid that's easily marketable to sell as a toy. Frankly, I feel a bit swindled. This movie is a license for Disney to print money, and it's not worth it. To me it kind of feels like the Hobbit movies. pigdog fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Dec 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:35
|
|
|
I fully expected Phasma to be the Boba Fett of this new movie and she didn't disappoint me in the least bit in that regard. They even threw her down a pit. Granted it was a garbage pit and not a sarlacc, but point stands.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:35
|
|
|
pigdog posted:Did we ever learn what was Rey's problem that she couldn't get over leaving her shithole planet? Basically she thought that if she stayed there long enough the people who dropped her off there would come back.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:40
|
|
|
jivjov posted:She's also confirmed for Episode VIII. I'm guessing she'll be either voluntarily gone from or hunted by the First Order for her failure, and out for revenge on Finn. That would actually be a pretty decent thing for Finn to be dealing with while Rey is with Luke... She's part of my larger problem with the stormtroopers in the movie. In the opening 5 minutes they made two very bold and imo very good changes to the stormtroopers: They made them look dangerous (badass troopship shot), and they gave them the personalities of individuals (via finn). But after like ten seconds of that, they're back to cardboard cutouts with poor aim. The silvery one not only has no personality, but gets captured with ease and disposed of off screen for comic relief. It actually undermines all the character development they do with finn, because all of a sudden it doesn't make any sense how one of these boring robots could develop a such a complex personality and a conscience out of nowhere. Also, he seems to have no problem gunning down his former buddies, despite cradling one of them as they died at the beginning.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:41
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:Talk about a hot take. Cross-reference attack of the clones which takes the idea of symbiosis and inverts it, as every relationship we see in the movie is tragic, warped, or breaking.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:43
|
|
|
pigdog posted:But here's the problem. The people who grew up with the original series are grown up now, and would expect films to have grown up as well. The expectations are high. It didn't meet them. Re: your spoiler, yeah: in her light saber vision, she saw a ship leaving Jakku, presumably abandoning her from her Jedi training. She was figuring those folks would come back, some day. Then the not-Yoda said something along the lines of "they're not coming back, but if you follow this through you can find them." Not as a slight to you, but I don't understand how someone can look at Finn or Rey and think they're bland. Finn is basically a perfect twist on the fish out of water character, and he infused a whole lotta charisma into that role (I especially loved him just not getting that Rey was behind him, and his grin in saying there's a trash compactor [he was sanitation, after all!]). Honestly, I think some of you had your expectations set way too high. I'll concede that it didn't have as high a peak as some of the tension of battle scenes in the OT, but on the other hand, there weren't nearly as many lows. I left the theater thinking, "hey, this is how things should have rhymed with the OT." f#a# fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Dec 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:44
|
|
|
pigdog posted:Did we ever learn what was Rey's problem that she couldn't get over leaving her shithole planet? Considering that they explained this several times including a significant flashback scene I think you can't really blame the film because you didn't understand it. She was abandoned on the planet and told that her family was coming back for her. She had nowhere else to go and desperately wanted to believe her family would come back. She did not want to leave the planet because she was convinced her family would come back for her eventually and a big emotional moment is her being told that her family is not coming back for her.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:47
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Considering that they explained this several times including a significant flashback scene I think you can't really blame the film because you didn't understand it. I mean was there a better reason behind it besides the lame and obvious excuse. Don't know about you but if I was starving on a desert planet waiting for someone, and some dudes offered me a spaceship and/or the chance to join the resistance, then I would certainly take the opportunity even to go look for whoever they were. If they were even alive. I mean that girl isn't a 4-year old, she's a grown woman and should be able to make more complex decisions than "wait here". Maybe also write a post-it note in case whoever they were did happen to stop by. pigdog fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Dec 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:52
|
|
|
And you know what Rey did too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:55
|
|
|
pigdog posted:I mean was there a better reason behind it besides the lame and obvious excuse. Don't know about you but if I was starving on a desert planet waiting for someone, and some dudes offered me a spaceship and/or the chance to join the resistance, then I would certainly take the opportunity even to go look for whoever they were. ... what? That isn't 'the lame and obvious excuse' it's the one that sets up the character and their motivation. If you want a ~super special secret~ excuse for why she is hiding on the planet then that's dumb because the excuse she has pretty firmly sets up her character and her motivation and helps define who she is. The fact that a character makes a choice that you personally wouldn't have isn't a flaw. It should make you ask why they made that decision and what it says about them. And Rey eventually does make that decision after she's forced to confront that the hope she was holding onto was meaningless.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:55
|
|
|
Phasma fills the role she needs to which is to personify the conformist authority that keeps Finn down. Finn isn't important enough to really deal with the higher ups. He's a custodian. Phasma works well as this middle man. It's also interesting how it is Ren who actually recognizes his emotions and his individuality, not Phasma. For all Ren's failings, he's as much an outsider in the First Order. Abrams smartly gives a greater sense of mission statement to the First Order than the Empire--conformity. For as much as a bastard as Ren is, that's really not his deal. I get how having a fight scene with her and Finn would have been nice, but I'm sure that will eventually come. I liked that Finn just fought some random Stormtrooper who recognized him. Remember the thing that initially breaks Finn is seeing his brother in arms die. Poe is set up to be a Star Wars rear end Star Wars protagonist. But this marginalized character--both in his role as a stormtrooper and a black dude in these movies--sees his role in this film and says, "Nah" and takes over. I think thematically it's more important for Finn not to fight his oppressor, but to essentially fight a version of himself who did not choose liberty. As I continue to reflect on the movie, I really like it more and more. It both revels in this nostalgic feeling of reclaiming the greatness promised by your youth while being very explicit in how that premise can be twisted. My actual Phasma prediction is this: She mentions something about reeducation. I bet the Han Being Frozen in Carbonite Moment will be Finn being recaptured and retrained as a Stormtrooper by Phasma, turning him into a minor antagonist who Rey has to save in Part 3.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:55
|
|
|
pigdog posted:I mean was there a better reason behind it besides the lame and obvious excuse. Don't know about you but if I was starving on a desert planet waiting for someone, and some dudes offered me a spaceship and/or the chance to join the resistance, then I would certainly take the opportunity even to go look for whoever they were. If they were even alive. I mean that girl isn't a 4-year old, she's a grown woman and should be able to make more complex decisions than "wait here". Have you considered that perhaps you're terrible at watching movies? Not only is that a perfectly valid thing for an abandoned child to feel, it also turns the idea of Luke wanting nothing more than to leave Tatooine on its head.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:03
|
|
|
Mahoning posted:Have you considered that perhaps you're terrible at watching movies. Idk if this is warranted, its a perfectly reasonable opinion to have, no need to jump down his throat because you disagree with it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:06
|
|
|
That was the nicest touch for me, Finn was marginalized and came from a conformist culture, but he constantly offered up Stormtrooper insights throughout the whole movie that saved everyone's lives. I think it speaks a lot to the value of diversity, in the workplace and otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:06
|
|
|
Mahoning posted:Have you considered that perhaps you're terrible at watching movies? But captain, that would be illogical. I, being a logical being, would successfully deduce that they are never coming back because I'm smarter than this movie character. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:07
|
|
|
It seemed to me that at the end of the duel Rey was tapping into her rage and just ripping Kylo up. They even pull the shot in toward her at a villainous angle, and I couldn't help but think of some of the fan theories that she would ice Kylo and turn at the end. The crack in the earth was the only thing that prevented her from killing him - at the very least, it gave her a second to cool down. At the end of the affair you have two weird kids who are full of raw power but don't know how to control it, and both are going to come back with training and a score to settle. Also: who is going to score Rogue One?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:08
|
|
|
Carrier posted:Idk if this is warranted, its a perfectly reasonable opinion to have, no need to jump down his throat because you disagree with it. It really isn't. "Why didn't an abandoned child just man up and give up hope?!" is a pretty crap opinion to have.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
teagone posted:The Half in the Bag review suggested a cool thing where the last shot should have had Luke slowly take the lightsaber from Rey using only the Force and then grab a hold of it, ignite it, then the film does the screenwipe on the shot Luke admiring the saber. That would have been so That would completely ruin the scene. Luke stands over a grave. His daughter (???) holds out his father's sword. We last saw him throw away his sword. He has fled the world after watching his Jedi slaughtered in their temple. Will he take up the cursed blade that cut down the Jedi of old, in their time? There's so much Rey doesn't understand about this moment. Will he teach her? Is this a troll? Did they actually say that?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
f#a# posted:Not as a slight to you, but I don't understand how someone can look at Finn or Rey and think they're bland. Finn is basically a perfect twist on the fish out of water character, and he infused a whole lotta charisma into that role (I especially loved him just not getting that Rey was behind him, and his grin in saying there's a trash compactor [he was sanitation, after all!]). Honestly, I think some of you had your expectations set way too high. I'll concede that it didn't have as high a peak as some of the tension of battle scenes in the OT, but on the other hand, there weren't nearly as many lows. quote:Not only is that a perfectly valid thing for an abandoned child to feel, it also turns the idea of Luke wanting nothing more than to leave Tatooine on its head.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
pigdog posted:Firstly, the Knights of the Old Republic games, which showed how cool the Star Wars universe could actually look like given well developed characters and plot. Alright, suddenly everything is very clear. KOTOR has absolutely poo poo characters and plot which is a mix of rehash of the OT and the worst of the worst of the EU and KOTOR2 is only better because it has a strong core concept but not one that is inherently any less grounded in existing material and honestly is an unfinished mess even if that isn't the fault of the developers. Calling it 'well-developed' is a real stretch. pigdog posted:Yeah.. you kind of made my point better than I did. Why the hell does he want to stick around there while Luke in the same universe acted like a normal human being and couldn't wait to GTFO? If someone was looking for her, then she could've just left a message or something. It's almost like Luke had a family and was rebelling against their influence while Rey didn't and longed for one! ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Dec 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:11
|
|
|
pigdog posted:Thirdly, the Guardians of the Galaxy movie, which really set the new bar, and which I would still consider the true spiritual successor to OT. You want to compare charisma of Finn to Chris Pratt as Star Lord? Come on. I liked Guardians of the Galaxy a lot and Chris Pratt was absolutely magnetic, but his character is basically what you get when a 12 year old goes "what if Han Solo and Luke were the same character!?" It works in that movie and we all had a lot of fun watching it, but it doesn't exactly make him all that interesting in the long run.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:13
|
|
|
pigdog posted:At least two things happened in the meantime. Firstly, the Knights of the Old Republic games, which showed how cool the Star Wars universe could actually look like given well developed characters and plot. In comparison you can sum Rey or Finn up with "dude used to be a stormtrooper" or "hot pilot chick with Jedi potential". Not much else. Secondly, the Star Trek movies by the same director, which had pretty decently complex plots for modern sci-fi blockbusters. Thirdly, the Guardians of the Galaxy movie, which really set the new bar, and which I would still consider the true spiritual successor to OT. You want to compare charisma of Finn to Chris Pratt as Star Lord? Come on. Wow man, how can you rip into star wars for bland characters when you got guardians of the galaxy with comic relief squirrel, knock off chewie and wannabe han solo. (i really like guardians of the galaxy)
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:15
|
|
|
pigdog posted:Yeah.. you kind of made my point better than I did. Why the hell does he want to stick around there while Luke in the same universe acted like a normal human being and couldn't wait to GTFO? If someone was looking for her, then she could've just left a message or something. But Luke HAD a family. It's a completely different dynamic. But you're right, it should be more like a video game. Tell us more about that. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:15
|
|
|
Hulk Krogan posted:his character is basically what you get when a 12 year old goes "what if Han Solo and Luke were the same character!?" Dash Rendar
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:15
|
|
|
Zero VGS posted:Dash Rendar Dash Rendar didn't even have the Luke part of that equation. It was just "what if Han Solo was Han Solo?!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
Yeah if you're looking for the Star Wars equivalent of Star Lord it would be Coran Horn, or maybe Kyle Katarn.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:19
|
|
|
Yo, pigdog simplified a well acted, relatively well written character with a dynamic personality into a hot chick. So, maybe we shouldn't argue with him because he's saying pretty dumb poo poo and it's not worth it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:19
|
|
|
Mahoning posted:But Luke HAD a family. It's a completely different dynamic.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:24
|
|
|
Mr. Pumroy posted:i think at first i was kind of annoyed with kylo ren but the more i think about it, the more i understand him. like, when your grandfather is the biggest villain in cinematic history, it's hard not to want to be that cool. darth vader is one of the most iconic figures in movies, and even though he's a villain we all kind of like him don't we? he has that presence in the original movies. i'm darth vader. you all know me. every single one of you. it's almost like collective unconscious poo poo at this point. we all wish we were that cool. kylo ren is that pop culture wish to be as cool as darth vader. but he's not, and he never will be, because it's not possible to be that cool. but he puts on a masks even though he doesn't need it and waves around his scary saber and when things don't go his way he has a temper tantrum, but when things didn't go vader's way he just stared off into the stars and looked cool as heck. Actually, he's exactly as cool as Darth Vader, who was a superpowered whiny teenager/young adult with emotional issues. And he's not aware of how like his grandfather he really is. He thinks Anakin walked the path of darkness intentionally, when Anakin actually gave in to his rage and despair and wound up crippled and beholden to a man he respected and loathed in equal measure. Kylo is trying to be cool and failing because he is so successfully emulating Vader, who was pathetic for all his strength. The mask is great because Vader wore it because he was disfigured and crippled. He didn't want it. The mask Kylo puts on is a perfect symbol for how completely he's misunderstood Anakin while successfully emulating him. And that's even cooler. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Dec 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:26
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:I didn't notice the first time in the scene where Kylo is trying to read Rey's mind to get the fragment of the map she saw, he says "You know I can take what I want" and then he sees Rey's dream of an island in an ocean. But neither of them realize that is exactly what he wants - Luke's exact location, which Rey had dreamed of. I didn't get this either, great catch.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:26
|
|
|
Although I liked Fin, I thought it was slightly ridiculous that a "trained from birth" stormtrooper showed no signs of indoctrination or even military discipline from the moment he switched sides. Like, I get that it makes the plot work, but I find it pretty hard to believe that he was a completely unnoticed standard brainwashed stormtrooper (at least in the eyes of his superiors) for years and easily could have passed for a random dude pulled off the street immediately afterwards. I also find it hilarious that they went to the effort of going to show, via Fin, that not all stormtroopers are pure evil and then spent the rest of the movie blowing them up with reckless abandon. Come at me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:28
|
|
|
pigdog posted:I mean was there a better reason behind it besides the lame and obvious excuse. Don't know about you but if I was starving on a desert planet waiting for someone, and some dudes offered me a spaceship and/or the chance to join the resistance, then I would certainly take the opportunity even to go look for whoever they were. If they were even alive. I mean that girl isn't a 4-year old, she's a grown woman and should be able to make more complex decisions than "wait here". I think it's a combination of Rey sticking to what she knows and wanting to have faith in her family (?) that they didn't just leave her there forever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:28
|
|
|
pigdog posted:At least he didn't dedicate his entire life on the obsession that would have made him starve in the desert for 20 years for the off chance of seeing his family. I mean the more you think about it, the crazier it seems. What if her parents landed 10 or 100 miles away from her, or stopped by while she was scavenging or whatever? It's such a silly motivation that I kept hoping throughout the movie there had to be a deeper one. It's not rational, and it doesn't have to be. If she was a Vulcan, she would have sold the orange robot for 100 TV dinners, but she has emotions like a real person, which include an irrational fear of leaving the place she thinks her family might come back to.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:29
|
|
|
Carrier posted:I also find it hilarious that they went to the effort of going to show, via Fin, that not all stormtroopers are pure evil and then spent the rest of the movie blowing them up with reckless abandon. I felt this too, it was weird to feel a little bad whenever a tie fighter blew up. "There was a storm trooper in there  "Edit: As a side note, I think I have a serious problem with storm troopers. When I was a kid, I was scared of them. Then for the next 20 years, every time I saw a strom trooper, it was actually just some goon dressed up like a storm trooper. In TFA it was sort of hard to shake the feeling that the Starkiller was populated by cosplaying nerds. Seaniqua fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Dec 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:30
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Actually, he's exactly as cool as Darth Vader, who was a superpowered whiny teenager/young adult with emotional issues. And he's not aware of how like his grandfather he really is. He thinks Anakin walked the path of darkness intentionally, when Anakin actually gave in to his rage and despair and wound up crippled and beholden to a man he respected and loathed in equal measure. Kylo is trying to be cool and failing because he is so successfully emulating Vader, who was pathetic for all his strength. The mask is great because Vader wore it because he was disfigured and crippled. He didn't want it. The mask Kylo puts on is a perfect symbol for how completely he's misunderstood Anakin while successfully emulating him. And that's even cooler. man i ain't talking about no god drat anakin i'm talking about DARTH VADER i get what you're saying and that makes sense but gently caress anakin
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:31
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Yo, pigdog simplified a well acted, relatively well written character with a dynamic personality into a hot chick. So, maybe we shouldn't argue with him because he's saying pretty dumb poo poo and it's not worth it? Come to think of it, I would have made pretty good subplot if the movie recognized that Rey was crazy, and her subplot was about overcoming her obsession with staying in the desert (by the way of the force or whatever), and finally being able to live a fulfilling life as a starship pilot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
The Force Awakens pretty much allows you to imagine Anakin Skywalker however the gently caress you want to. The Clone Army and the Sith mentions seem to be the only PT callbacks, and it's not like that's even PT specific stuff.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
pigdog posted:At least he didn't dedicate his entire life on the obsession that would have made him starve in the desert for 20 years for the off chance of seeing his family. I mean the more you think about it, the crazier it seems. What if her parents landed 10 or 100 miles away from her, or stopped by while she was scavenging or whatever? It's such a silly motivation that I kept hoping throughout the movie there had to be a deeper one. You probably aren't very good at the empathy thing are you?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 01:01 |
|
|
Carrier posted:Although I liked Fin, I thought it was slightly ridiculous that a "trained from birth" stormtrooper showed no signs of indoctrination or even military discipline from the moment he switched sides. Like, I get that it makes the plot work, but I find it pretty hard to believe that he was a completely unnoticed standard brainwashed stormtrooper (at least in the eyes of his superiors) for years and easily could have passed for a random dude pulled off the street immediately afterwards. I actually like it because it emphasizes the idea that Stormtroopers are people. They can get angry and upset or unhappy or bonk their head on a door by accident and that is a normal part of who they are. We actually see a lot of personality from the Stormtroopers in the film. Like the two who casually walk away from Ren or the Daniel Craig one who gets legitimately angry at being ordered around or whatnot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:36
|
|