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Coylter posted:Look up my previous post and eating beans, soy beans, flax seeds etc. isn't hard. It simply isn't. It also "simply isn't" going to guarantee proper amounts of nutrients commonly lacking in all-plant diets. What don't you get there?
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Dec 22, 2015 21:36
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fishmech posted:It also "simply isn't" going to guarantee proper amounts of nutrients commonly lacking in all-plant diets. What don't you get there? Neither is a single food going to guarantee it for any diet. This isn't a property that's unique to veganism. I absolutely get your point. My point is that you should use your brain when assessing what you shove down your mouth. It still doesn't make it hard. Coylter fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 21:38
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Coylter posted:Neither is a single food is going to guarantee it for any diet. This isn't a property that's unique to veganism. I absolutely get your point. My point is that you should use your brain when assessing what you shove down your mouth. It still doesn't make it hard.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:40
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Mr. Wookums posted:I emphasized where you're wrong. Only veganism cannot cover its nutritional needs with a single food stuff? Maybe a soylent diet lol. Beside i don't really buy the "commonly lacking in plant based diet" argument. If you eat a diverse selection of vegies, fruits, lentils, beans etc you most likely are not gonna run into any problem even if you don't specifically care for a specific nutrient. The exception to this would probably be B12 but that can be remedied by eating unwashed vegies (from the garden) or preferably a B12 supplement if you are not inclined on eating dirt. Coylter fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 21:42
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Coylter posted:Only veganism cannot cover its nutritional needs with a single food stuff?
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Dec 22, 2015 21:44
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Coylter posted:What did you seriously take that as a "Eat only beans" statement. So you used "just eat some beans" as some sort of rebuttal against the idea that vegan nutritional planning is complex, and now you're saying "well, obviously it's more complex than that...". That makes sense. Coylter posted:They sell them in a can which you can mix with tomato paste or something and are absolutely fine to eat. I ate cans of straight beans as my lunch for over a year and they never lost their appeal. Beans are delicious. Most people don't think this and, shockingly, will not be receptive to the idea of losing weight by eating beans out of a can for lunch every day for a year. Doc Hawkins posted:When a vegan diet has negative health effects, doesn't it technically count as an eating disorder? A for-the-most-part-socially-accepted form of orthorexia? No, being misinformed is not a mental illness.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:44
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Mr. Wookums posted:Soylent isn't a single food item. Good point.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:45
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Coylter posted:They sell them in a can which you can mix with tomato paste or something and are absolutely fine to eat. I ate cans of straight beans as my lunch for over a year and they never lost their appeal. Beans are delicious. Jesus christ
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Dec 22, 2015 21:46
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Bryter posted:So you used "just eat some beans" as some sort of rebuttal against the idea that vegan nutritional planning is complex, and now you're saying "well, obviously it's more complex than that...". That makes sense. That's not my point at all i was just replying to the idea that beans are not delicious. Control Volume posted:Jesus christ Yea i'm sure this looks alien/extreme coming from people with a diet of twinkies. The vitriol in this thread is real.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:46
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Looking to lose weight? Try this new hip diet where you mix beans and tomato paste and eat them for an entire year while some blob fatter than you tells you to eat less and exercise over the internet. The thin privilege thread diet.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:47
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Coylter posted:Neither is a single food going to guarantee it for any diet. This isn't a property that's unique to veganism. I absolutely get your point. My point is that you should use your brain when assessing what you shove down your mouth. It still doesn't make it hard. No it honestly is a property that's unique to veganism, that it's extremely difficult to get all necessary nutrients for a human being in food, under a strict adherence to its requirements. Regular vegetarianism, which allows sparse consumption of animal derived things, has no troubles, and of course being omnivorous has no issues at all. Any idiot can spend their life not going through any particular effort to get all necessary nutrients on a vegetarian or omnivorous diet. You need to be fuckin' diligent as hell to get the various amino acids, trace nutrients like B12 etc from a strict vegan diet.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:47
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Coylter posted:What did you seriously take that as a "Eat only beans" statement. Tell me what a "processed food" is and how your definition doesn't include tomato paste
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Dec 22, 2015 21:50
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fishmech posted:No it honestly is a property that's unique to veganism, that it's extremely difficult to get all necessary nutrients for a human being in food, under a strict adherence to its requirements. Regular vegetarianism, which allows sparse consumption of animal derived things, has no troubles, and of course being omnivorous has no issues at all. It is not extremely difficult at all. ITT: Eating beans and a supplement every month = be fuckin' diligent as hell
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Dec 22, 2015 21:50
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Series DD Funding posted:Tell me what a "processed food" is and how your definition doesn't include tomato paste It's within my personnal limits to what i consider acceptable. Look i'm not an extremist lol.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:51
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Coylter posted:It is not extremely difficult at all. Again, "eat beans" is not adequate nutritional planning for a vegan diet.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:51
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Coylter posted:It's within my personnal limits to what i consider acceptable. Look i'm not an extremist lol. So maybe it would be helpful if you found a word that better describes the category of food you find unacceptable.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:53
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Bryter posted:Again, "eat beans" is not adequate nutritional planning for a vegan diet. Well it's not juste beans, there are plenty of other sources of amino acids. I was just using them as a case in point because i eat them pretty much every day.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:53
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Stinky_Pete posted:So maybe it would be helpful if you found a word that better describes the category of food you find unacceptable. Probably. Do you have a suggestion? I tend towards whole, unprocessed food but i have leeway.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:53
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Coylter posted:It is not extremely difficult at all. Beans do absolutely nothing towards making up the nutritional deficit, when are you going to get that? And yes actually needing to take supplements is way more diligent then "just eat food that will actually have all you need". To say nothing of how supplements are practically unregulated so if you aren't careful you might have bought a supplement utterly lacking in B12 etc. You wouldn't have that problem if you deigned to eat an egg every month or so.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:54
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Coylter posted:Well it's not juste beans, there are plenty of other sources of amino acids. I was just using them as a case in point because i eat them pretty much every day. Seeking out those sources, learning to prepare them in a way that makes them palatable as a long term staple of your diet, ensuring you eat enough of them, and taking dietary supplements is, in fact, being diligent as hell compared to how people typically approach nutrition.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:56
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fishmech posted:Beans do absolutely nothing towards making up the nutritional deficit, when are you going to get that? And yes actually needing to take supplements is way more diligent then "just eat food that will actually have all you need". Look i was just using beans as a case in point you get amino acids from Quinoa, hempseeds, chia, soy, rice etc...
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Dec 22, 2015 21:57
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Bryter posted:Seeking out those sources, learning to prepare them in a way that makes them palatable as a long term staple of your diet, ensuring you eat enough of them, and taking dietary supplements is, in fact, being diligent as hell compared to how people typically approach nutrition. Well then you might be putting your finger on the gist of the problem... But in all seriousness preparing rice is very easy and so is cooking vegetables. Anyone can do that.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:58
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Coylter posted:Neither is a single food going to guarantee it for any diet. This isn't a property that's unique to veganism. I absolutely get your point. My point is that you should use your brain when assessing what you shove down your mouth. It still doesn't make it hard. quote:In the July issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, German researchers tracked 174 apparently healthy people living in Germany and the Netherlands. It's actually very hard to be strictly vegetarian and not have a b12 deficiency. Veganism is hilariously bad for you.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:59
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No its not hard you take a pill every week or eat nutritional yeast. I prefer the later. As i said earlier you can also eat dirty vegetables since that's how we got B12 before we started washing everything. Not something i would recommend tho.. jre posted:Veganism is hilariously bad for you. How so, all the studies have seen point in the opposite direction.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:59
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Coylter posted:No its not hard you take a pill every week or eat nutritional yeast. I prefer the later. If it's not hard why do 92% of the vegans in that study have measurable malnutrition ?
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Dec 22, 2015 22:01
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Or enjoy one of many succulent fleshes. You'd also want to be taking supplements far more often than that as a majority of them are not absorbed.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:01
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Coylter posted:It's within my personnal limits to what i consider acceptable. Look i'm not an extremist lol. So "foods I like are good, foods I don't like are bad" then
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Dec 22, 2015 22:01
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Series DD Funding posted:So "foods I like are good, foods I don't like are bad" then No, in an ideal world i would probably not eat anything that's canned either. Everyone has their own margin of maneuver. Let's not act like everyone is completely rigid in their beliefs.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:02
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Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any worse...the vegans show up.  The fattest person I know is a vegan btw so it's not some magic bullet that slays obesity or poor nutrition.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:03
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smg77 posted:Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any worse...the vegans show up. drat your anecdote just completely wiped the floor.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:04
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Coylter posted:Probably. Do you have a suggestion? Looking at your post history in the thread, it seems like the foods you don't like are foods optimized for uniformity, packaging, and transit, in such a way that nutritional content is sacrificed. I assume this is what you meant by "processed," though to me every food goes through some kind of process. Like there was a mechanical process that separated my bag of flax seeds from the flax chaff, but that probably doesn't qualify the flax seeds for your category of undesirables. Your category also includes foods like chicken breast, so I think you're going to have to not fall back on a single adjective as a shortcut for your idea if your goal is for other people to understand you.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:06
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Yeah lol vegans can still eat linguini for days
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Dec 22, 2015 22:07
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Stinky_Pete posted:Yeah lol vegans can still eat linguini for days That's not good for you at all. Stinky_Pete posted:Looking at your post history in the thread, it seems like the foods you don't like are foods optimized for uniformity, packaging, and transit, in such a way that nutritional content is sacrificed. I assume this is what you meant by "processed," though to me every food goes through some kind of process. Like there was a mechanical process that separated my bag of flax seeds from the flax chaff, but that probably doesn't qualify the flax seeds for your category of undesirables. Yea i agree processed is a very vague term. Whole plant based diet would be closer i guess.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:08
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Yeah I think we're just trying to establish that qualifying as 'vegan' is neither sufficient nor necessary for a diet to be healthy. But eating mostly leaves and broccoli and squash and whatnot certainly helps. Adding chicken breast helps even more I think, and extracting the seeds from a whole flax plant is also nice.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:10
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Stinky_Pete posted:Yeah I think we're just trying to establish that qualifying as 'vegan' is neither sufficient nor necessary for a diet to be healthy. That's absolutely right. It's possible to be vegan and eat potato chips all day but there is no denying that it is entirely possible and feasible (I'd even say easy) to eat a complete diet in a fully vegan context.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:13
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Coylter posted:
No, before we started washing everything we got B12 from meat and other animal products. You only need small amounts after all, even eating animal products as little as a few times a year can be enough intake to keep ya good. It's the total lack that's really bad for you. Incidentally most of the time leaving those things unwashed still doesn't leave any usable B12 in the literal poo poo and dirt you left on the vegetables. Especially if it was done in a vegan way, i.e. without livestock around whose poo poo can leave usable B12 on there! Coylter posted:Look i was just using beans as a case in point you get amino acids from Quinoa, hempseeds, chia, soy, rice etc... That's also not going to fix the problems.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:13
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Coylter posted:there is no denying that it is entirely possible and feasible (I'd even say easy) to eat a complete diet in a fully vegan context. It's possible, sure, but for a lot of people it is not feasible and for the overwhelming majority of people it is not easy. At all.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:15
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How do you reconcile the glory of the vegan diet with the evil cola-sponsored carb conspiracy
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Dec 22, 2015 22:18
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fishmech posted:No, before we started washing everything we got B12 from meat and other animal products. You only need small amounts after all, even eating animal products as little as a few times a year can be enough intake to keep ya good. It's the total lack that's really bad for you. What problem do you have at this point? Control Volume posted:How do you reconcile the glory of the vegan diet with the evil cola-sponsored carb conspiracy You don't, veganism includes soda by definition. It's really not the point tho, sodas are absolutely loving terrible.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:19
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Coylter posted:What problem do you have at this point? My problem is you're recommending a diet that provably results in nutritional deficiencies in most people who attempt it and stick with it long term, if they're not extremely careful to properly source things to supplement the rest of their food. The very fact that you think the solution is "just eat the food you can eat" when the foods you can eat are the problem only cinches it. There's also all the outright falsehoods you posted (though they're not lies, because you clearly don't know better, and didn't intend to deceive).
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Dec 22, 2015 22:24
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