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FAUXTON posted:The problem with a detailed public audit is that complex financial instruments are being exposed to the scrutiny of loving idiots with power. I trust the fed, even assuming the worst of what you say, over the possibility of the fuckers of the tortilla coast shattering the bedrock of the global financial system because they are too dim to figure out how sovereign finance works on a basic level. Remember, there's people who are smarter than the average congress critter believe this poo poo
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Dec 25, 2015 06:03
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RuanGacho posted:Remember, there's people who are smarter than the average congress critter believe this poo poo lol, Professor of History at Hillsdale college
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Dec 25, 2015 06:10
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:I'm shocked, utterly shocked that USPol goons would defend the stupidity they agree with. Shut the gently caress up you big baby.
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Dec 25, 2015 06:17
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Aliquid posted:lol, Professor of History at Hillsdale college quote:4.0 out of 5 stars
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Dec 25, 2015 06:24
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Shageletic posted:What do you mean? Compared to now and 1960, the unemployment rate actually increased for blacks. Poverty shrunk by 10%, but still hovers around 33%, housing rates, household savings, income, insurance levels, and healthcare metrics have improved slightly (but not in relation to whites), but have either stagnated or even shrunk in the past decad3. try 1860, sucka
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Dec 25, 2015 06:40
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Shageletic posted:What do you mean? Compared to now and 1960, the unemployment rate actually increased for blacks. I'm not able to find statistics from this year, but the most recent ones seem to indicate that unemployment did not increase relative to whites.
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Dec 25, 2015 06:42
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blue squares posted:try 1860, sucka Most African Americans had steady employment and a place to live then.
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Dec 25, 2015 06:57
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CaptainCarrot posted:Housing fictional refugees is loving easy, man. I can fit a million in my living room. I have binders full of them! 
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Dec 25, 2015 07:05
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computer parts posted:I'm not able to find statistics from this year, but the most recent ones seem to indicate that unemployment did not increase relative to whites. Hardly "things are getting better for minorities" by any stretch. Blacks are somewhat less likely to be lynched and somewhat more likely to be unemployed or working lovely jobs. Go American progress. Meanwhile poo poo is getting much worse for non-rich whites, whether you think it's deserved or not.
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Dec 25, 2015 07:37
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Radbot posted:Hardly "things are getting better for minorities" by any stretch. Blacks are somewhat less likely to be lynched and somewhat more likely to be unemployed or working lovely jobs. Go American progress. Unemployment is up, yet poverty is way down. Strange that.
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Dec 25, 2015 07:39
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In an ideal world I'd be okay with a sincere audit of pretty much every federal agency but as it stands I'd prefer the vital organs of the state to keep functioning with as little scrutiny from the Randroid-Fundamentalist Fuckwit Alliance as possible.
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Dec 25, 2015 07:45
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Radbot posted:Hardly "things are getting better for minorities" by any stretch. Blacks are somewhat less likely to be lynched and somewhat more likely to be unemployed or working lovely jobs. Go American progress. I'm sorry, is this not progress? History is the long march of progress dude. Standards and conditions of living are better now than they were 50 years ago and that'll be true again 50 years from now. You make it sound like you approach the idea of "progress" like there's an end game to be reached, but there isn't.
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Dec 25, 2015 07:47
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Combed Thunderclap posted:It is totally surreal that only 400,000 out of 4.4 million people (and 3.2 million registered voters) actually voted, and that means that 85,000 extra people voting for Bevin = Kynect, the most successful state health care exchange in the nation, is dead and we're back to Religious Freedom Funtimes.  about it but it's difficult to sustain any sympathy, much less outrage in that case.
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Dec 25, 2015 07:53
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His votes still wouldn't have made the ultimate difference, but he sure as hell didn't make things easier for Conway.
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I am re-watching the year of This Week Tonight, and everyone should constantly be reminded that America has a shitload of pretty important and easily solvable problems, none of which are ever fixed or discussed in favor of stupid bullshit that ranges from pointless to actively destructive!
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Dec 25, 2015 08:02
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stinkles1112 posted:I'm sorry, is this not progress? History is the long march of progress dude. Standards and conditions of living are better now than they were 50 years ago and that'll be true again 50 years from now. You make it sound like you approach the idea of "progress" like there's an end game to be reached, but there isn't. Current trends, extrapolated, don't support this notion at all. computer parts posted:Unemployment is up, yet poverty is way down. Strange that. Agreed that as long as Americans are earning over $12k/yr, they are living the high life and should never, ever complain. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 25, 2015 08:06
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Radbot posted:Agreed that as long as Americans are earning over $12k/yr, they are living the high life and should never, ever complain. Oh, good then. Glad we all agree.
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Dec 25, 2015 08:37
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FAUXTON posted:The problem with a detailed public audit is that complex financial instruments are being exposed to the scrutiny of loving idiots with power.
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Dec 25, 2015 08:55
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Potential BFF posted:In an ideal world I'd be okay with a sincere audit of pretty much every federal agency but as it stands I'd prefer the vital organs of the state to keep functioning with as little scrutiny from the Randroid-Fundamentalist Fuckwit Alliance as possible. Yeah, that's how I feel too. I have no issue at all with the concept of federal programs being audited. It's the fact that the Audit would be run by the Paulite Fuckwits, the "plunder the government at all costs" Neocon faction would take notes to figure out how to siphon as much money for themselves and their sponsors, and the "the more dysfunctional the more votes I get" idiots from the Tortilla Cost would continue their policy of taking a heavy spanner and smashing every piece of governmental bureaucratic machinery that says "No User Serviceable Parts Inside".
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Dec 25, 2015 08:55
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:There is already so much important complex stuff that is exposed to the scrutiny and influence of those idiots that 1 more thing won't make a difference at this point. Why would you think that though? The problems at the Fed you detailed were: politicization, unfair distribution of financial liquidity, and poor regulatory policies. Why would involving a partisan, biased, anti-regulatory body in the institution do anything at all to fix any of those problems, it sounds like a recipe for policy decisions that benefit the party / set of donors that currently control the oversight, and much more dangerously, could completely derail its ability to actually keep the monetary system stable. What exactly is more important and complex than the macroeconomic sovereign monetary policy of the biggest economy in the world, exactly?
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Dec 25, 2015 09:04
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The Fed tries really hard to stay under the radar, because if flyover backwood idiots actually knew the amount of power and responsibility their institution possesses it would be constantly attacked. Sort of like it is now! It's a double edged sword since no one knows the unbelievably instrumental importance of their subtle high level manipulations to their daily lives. If Paul or Bernie actually start loving with the Fed and it results in uncontrolled inflation/deflation, everyone will probably just blame it on immigrants and minorities and taxes anyway and no one will ever learn anything.
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Dec 25, 2015 09:09
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Stereotype posted:Why would you think that though?
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Dec 25, 2015 09:56
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God I hate Bernie's proximity to the MMT crowd and his love affair with the idea of monetary populism. A farmer should not be deciding monetary policy unless that farmer has a PhD in econ. Bernie, what the gently caress. Still voting for the man, though. Typical Pubbie fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Dec 25, 2015 |
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Dec 25, 2015 10:32
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Wasn't it a bunch of farmers coming together during the 19th century that basically created the prototype of US progressive taxation?
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Dec 25, 2015 11:14
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SedanChair posted:I strongly oppose bombing Narnia. The White Witch Did Nothing Wrong.
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Dec 25, 2015 11:35
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Potential BFF posted:In an ideal world I'd be okay with a sincere audit of pretty much every federal agency but as it stands I'd prefer the vital organs of the state to keep functioning with as little scrutiny from the Randroid-Fundamentalist Fuckwit Alliance as possible. Pretty much. I'm not naive enough to think there's no corruption or waste that can be curtailed in pretty much every government institution, but the fact is anything like a deep investigation would just be abused to hell and back by people looking to make a quick buck or get a few more votes come time to pull the lever.
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Dec 25, 2015 11:46
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Kilroy posted:Wait, turnout was under 10%? Jfc I don't want to be too I had clearly had too much eggnog when I posted that. That stat was actually from the 2015 KY primary election (12.5% turnout); for the general election turnout was 30.68%, with roughly 973,000 ballots cast out of roughly 3.2 million registered voters, a gap of 8.7 points between Bevin and Conway, and another 3.7 points going to the Farkster. KY hasn't yet published its full age/gender vote breakdown for the general, should be interesting when they do. I think this sort of stuff is interesting because I am Literally Insane, so have a bunch of turnout stats I threw together for the last two decades of Kentucky gubernatorial elections. 
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Dec 25, 2015 11:55
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Seems like a pretty faithless and deliberate misreading to think that Bernie intends to appoint a literal farmer with dirt under his nails or a literal consumer who just got back from the As Seen On TV store, rather than economically-literate people who understand and represent farmers or consumers. Because all we have now are people who represent bankers.
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Dec 25, 2015 12:02
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The Fed did far more to promote the interests of poor people after the financial crisis with low interest rates and quantitave easing than any elected representative. More populism on the Fed just means more risk that they'll be informed by atlas shrugged than macroeconomics.
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Dec 25, 2015 12:26
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Stereotype posted:Bernie is different from the Pauls, as they seem to just really want a poo poo load of deflation, where as Bernie seemingly wants decreases in government spending to immediately cause deflationary harm to the economy, a thing the Fed delays or prevents. Why would deflation be bad? Seems like it could improve standards of living without increasing wages. We're in a weird place now where a penny is a quantum of money - it is everything and nothing.
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Dec 25, 2015 13:35
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McDowell posted:Why would deflation be bad? Seems like it could improve standards of living without increasing wages. We're in a weird place now where a penny is a quantum of money - it is everything and nothing. Deflation is really bad for the economy in a number of ways. The most simple is really it disincentives spending any money if it's going to be worth more tomorrow.
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Dec 25, 2015 13:45
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^Not to mention everyone with debt gets utterly boned, and what's left of our manufacturing base would get shelled.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:22
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I get Bernie's issue with the Fed (focused more inflation mandate than unemployment, seemingly more interested in aiding banks than people), but his ideas are nearly all garbage. I remember reading some #HotTakes during QE about how we should be doing Helicopter Drops instead, is there any truth to that? Like I could see direct stimulus being better than bond buybacks.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:23
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Reminder that economics is an intellectual bankrupt voodoo rainmaker discipline that just uses mathematics instead of literally divining with cast chicken bones or entrails. We give them huge power and tons of money because we sure wish they knew what they were doing but let's not go crazy and pretend they do, just because a farmer knows even less. Also history is absolutely not "the march of progress" and there's no guarantee that things will be better in 50 or 100 or 500 years.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:30
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Inflation is bad, deflation is bad, we just need to stay right here and never change anything. Debt jubilees coupled with deflation could be good for the economy.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:34
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Because just by holding the budget hostage they can already trash the economy for stupid reasons and have come close to doing so before. Its a moot point. And Congress is pretty lovely right now but it wasn't nearly as bad back then and probably won't be in the future. Letting elected reps. have more control and say over how the money gets spent rather than trusting it to the assholes who helped make the mess due to, at absolute best, gross incompetence is in general a good thing. Yea they would've made some mistakes too but better to have mistakes that funnel the money into porkbarrel projects that maybe build some bridges or whatever than have it funneled to already rich people. What in the gently caress are you talking about?
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Dec 25, 2015 14:58
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GalacticAcid posted:^Not to mention everyone with debt gets utterly boned, and what's left of our manufacturing base would get shelled. You can substitute "everyone with debt" with "anyone who isn't rich as gently caress", honestly.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:59
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McDowell posted:Inflation is bad, deflation is bad, we just need to stay right here and never change anything. Debt jubilees coupled with deflation could be good for the economy. Moderate inflation is a good thing.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:59
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Yeah that post is just as dumb as everyone saying we should raise rates because we haven't in a while. Changing poo poo for no reason at all is Hella dumb.
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Dec 25, 2015 15:01
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The Larch posted:Moderate inflation is a good thing. Not for the banks!
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Dec 25, 2015 15:32
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McDowell posted:Why would deflation be bad? Seems like it could improve standards of living without increasing wages. We're in a weird place now where a penny is a quantum of money - it is everything and nothing. Typically, deflation causes wages to fall just as much as prices do. So you don't really get a large standard of living increase for the average joe living paycheck to paycheck, because his spending money is falling as fast as his costs. Or at least his company's income is falling that fast, and eventually they'll have to cut wages or fire people. Also, there's something called "downward nominal wage rigidity" which basically means people hate pay cuts. They often devastate employee morale, and employers tend to favor layoffs over explicit wage cuts (they'll still do benefit cuts). McDowell posted:Inflation is bad, deflation is bad, we just need to stay right here and never change anything. Inflation encourages people to spend and invest money. You can't just sit on your millions in a 2% inflationary environment, because its spending power gets slowly eaten away. You have to either spend it on stuff now (strengthening the Consumption part of the economy) or invest in something with >2% returns (strengthening Investment) McDowell posted:Debt jubilees coupled with deflation could be good for the economy. Yeah, and so would manna falling from heaven, but it's a nonstarter. The companies holding the debt utilize it as an asset and a form of income, and they have a lot more lobbying power. The other issue with deflation is that it makes the rich richer - their reserves of wealth let them buy even more stuff.
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Dec 25, 2015 15:39
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