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The Larch posted:Out of curiosity, what are the widely-accepted economic theories Krugman doesn't believe in, and who are the leading economists who promote it? Supply side theorists, austerity pushers, disciplines of the University of Chicago style neo-liberalist economics, etc.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:25
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Yeah, people DON'T care about statistics. Systematic poverty is reduced to a statistic because no one wants to deal with it. Welfare fraud is talked about with specific examples because people want to systematically dismantle welfare entirely. It is actually a good way to tell if someone is trying to manipulate you, are they using large sample-size statistics? Then probably not. Are they telling you about the poor white poo poo farmer with some cute kids from Ohio who just can't quite make ends meet without the Corn Subsidy? They probably are.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:25
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Luigi Thirty posted:he he yeah burn the south, kill everyone in the s That map only shows rural areas with black people, FYI.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:35
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Paradoxish posted:This is the best part: Heritage, not hate.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:36
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Stereotype posted:Yeah, people DON'T care about statistics. Systematic poverty is reduced to a statistic because no one wants to deal with it. Welfare fraud is talked about with specific examples because people want to systematically dismantle welfare entirely. Poverty is viewed as entirely tolerable if it is viewed as being a manageable number and even a necessary consequence of the system poverty exists under. The reason why charities exist is entirely a logical extension of the latter. This is also consistent on how Americans view the "middle class" because it helps keep those numbers entirely manageable. Racism in this country is systemic and impersonal. It's more than just the sum of a bunch of racist beliefs. And liberals in particularly mistake their anti-racist views for not being ignorant about the depth and breadth of this institution in law enforcement and the prison industrial complex. Shageletic posted:Supply side theorists, austerity pushers, disciplines of the University of Chicago style neo-liberalist economics, etc. Krugman is a Malthusian hack who unironically argued that the US should have an economy based off of producing luxury goods for the rich. There are better economists to pick from than him. He just so happens to be a celebrity darling that liberals can cling to in order to justify their world views.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:38
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Stereotype posted:Yeah, people DON'T care about statistics. Systematic poverty is reduced to a statistic because no one wants to deal with it. Welfare fraud is talked about with specific examples because people want to systematically dismantle welfare entirely. Likewise Israel as a statistic is way easier to ignore in favor of a non-interventionist ideology than having a woman crying about a dead relative on your doorstep is. Said woman had no reason to cry on Bernie's shoulder before. Now she does. I get that it's all cynical and cool to act like lobbying is entirely about $$$$ and only works if someone is corrupt/purchasable. But that's not actually true. People do change their minds for other reasons than money. See Clinton and Rwanda for example.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:38
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Human beings entirely care more about statistics than personal stories, and that is entirely why we created, live in, and tolerate something as oppressive as capitalism is. Sociopaths do, not regular feeling human beings.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:40
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Sociopaths do, not regular feeling human beings. But everyone on the Enemy Team are either idiots or sociopaths!
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Dec 25, 2015 22:42
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Sociopaths do, not regular feeling human beings.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:45
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Sociopaths do, not regular feeling human beings. Any ordinary American can be turned into a sadistic sociopath in an instant, depending on how much they can dehumanize their opposition. This is also why Americans are afraid to pick on anyone else but the mentally ill for mass shootings. No one likes an entire country coming out of a closet as potential cold hearted killers.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:46
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:
How is Krugman Malthusian
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Dec 25, 2015 23:00
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Berke Negri posted:How is Krugman Malthusian Because that person wanted to seem smart
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Dec 25, 2015 23:02
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Berke Negri posted:How is Krugman Malthusian Did you read the other half of what I said, or did you just stop when I said "he was a Malthusian"?
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Dec 25, 2015 23:25
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Stereotype posted:People keep posting that like we don't think the problems with the south are all the weird conservative whites who have disenfranchised all minorities. Look when I praised the idea of setting the south on fire again I clearly was just talking about making a very careful list of the worst 1%ers in the south and doing that, come on.
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Dec 25, 2015 23:33
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Did you read the other half of what I said, or did you just stop when I said "he was a Malthusian"? You called him a " Malthusian hack" so I'm curious how you come to that conclusion
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Dec 25, 2015 23:35
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Did you read the other half of what I said, or did you just stop when I said "he was a Malthusian"? How is the other half of that post related to Malthusianism?
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Dec 26, 2015 00:23
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Bip Roberts posted:That map only shows rural areas with black people, FYI. Detroit isn't rural.
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Dec 26, 2015 00:31
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computer parts posted:Detroit isn't rural. Yeah but more black people live in Cook County than all of Mississippi and the map does a poor job of indicating that.
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Dec 26, 2015 00:39
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Poverty is viewed as entirely tolerable if it is viewed as being a manageable number and even a necessary consequence of the system poverty exists under. The reason why charities exist is entirely a logical extension of the latter. This is also consistent on how Americans view the "middle class" because it helps keep those numbers entirely manageable. I know people are already asking about the second Krugman related weirdness in your posts, but in the first part: why do you think that people are reassured by "tolerable" poverty statistics? Do you think that those volunteering for and giving money to charities support those institutions because capitalism is just inherently flawed and the only possible way of solving poverty is through extra-governmental goodwill of average citizens? Personally I think that it is far more likely that no one has any idea what a "manageable" percentage of poverty is (5%? 20%? These are just math numbers), and only really care when they see poverty negatively affecting someone they are personally connected to. I don't understand why you responded to me either, you didn't really address my thesis of "statistics are inherently unrelatable even though they are much more accurate in describing reality"
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Dec 26, 2015 00:39
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Bip Roberts posted:Yeah but more black people live in Cook County than all of Mississippi and the map does a poor job of indicating that. It's true that a lot of black people are outside of the South (maybe more than in it, though I don't know for sure), but it's also true that a lot of Southerners are black people (at higher percentages than anywhere else in the nation).
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Dec 26, 2015 00:42
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So if we're really good, can we all have an extra Christmas present?quote:Conservative activists are targeting House Speaker Paul D. Ryan for a primary challenge next year as retribution for the massive spending bill the Wisconsin Republican ushered through Congress at the end of the recent session.
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Dec 26, 2015 00:45
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Just a reminder that, as we speak, right wing Christian terrorists are working themselves into a lather and at least a few are going to snap and shoot some places up/burn some things down! Just like over Thanksgiving! I look forward to seeing you all here in a few days when another mass shooting has probably taken place! Merry Christmas! Happy holidays! Io Saturnalia! edit - and it probably won't even make it past page 4 if it happens! god bless
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Dec 26, 2015 00:46
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Stultus Maximus posted:So if we're really good, can we all have an extra Christmas present? Ryan should welcome the challenges, he'll finally get that work-life balance he's been dreaming of. 
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Dec 26, 2015 00:51
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Luigi Thirty posted:he he yeah burn the south, kill everyone in the s Also, to add to the irrelevance of this image as to why people hate the south, each of those states with large black populations have about 25% of their congressional house districts majority black. Surprise, those representatives are all Democrats and never who people complain about (they are actually usually super cool). It's the other 75% of the representatives people have a big problem with.
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Dec 26, 2015 00:58
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Stultus Maximus posted:So if we're really good, can we all have an extra Christmas present? I wonder what the white hot ball of rage is doing this time of year?
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Dec 26, 2015 00:58
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fknlo posted:Can someone point me towards info on why a flat tax is dumb/doesn't work? The easier to understand the better. If wealthy citizens pay what average citizens can afford, you can't fund a robust public sector. There's enough income concentrated to the rich that this is a problem. Also, higher income taxes on the rich weakly retards formation of aristocracy. And then there's the general argument for progressive income taxation, where Marginal Utility (MU) and Marginal Propensity to Consume (MPC) are important concepts. MU is the idea that as income increases, the utility garnered from each additional dollar starts to decrease. Cost of Living in the US ranges, basically, from $15k to $25k. Accordingly, the first $15k to $25k will be your food and shelter money. Dollars $160,001 to $170,000 are going to be your scotch and savings money. Taxing high utility dollars, Food & Shelter money, is more harmful than taxing low utility dollars, Scotch & Savings money. And MPC is the idea that as income increases, the proportion spent of each additional dollar starts to decrease. Your food and shelter money will get spent, but part of your scotch and savings money will go toward stocks, mutual funds, REITs and all kinds of poo poo. High MPC dollars are more economically stimulative than low MPC dollars, especially when the economy's suffering from low aggregate demand. Thus, taxing high MPC dollars is more harmful than taxing low MPC dollars. A progressive income tax scale eschews taxation of money at the low end in favor of taxation at the high end. It biases against taxing high utility, high MPC dollars in favor of low utility, low MPC dollars thus minimizing the taxation's proximate negative impact. A regressive income tax, which is what we, in practice, have now for the very wealthy, literally does the opposite and thus maximizes negative impact. And don't forget that thanks to income brackets, the rich pay low-rates on their 'Food & Shelter' money, too.
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Dec 26, 2015 00:59
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Riosan posted:I wonder what the white hot ball of rage is doing this time of year? its backing trump at this point while shrieking "MAKE AMERICA GREAT" at a defeaning pitch over and over again. Stultus Maximus posted:So if we're really good, can we all have an extra Christmas present? have fun rear end in a top hat. the monsters that lifted you up are now trying to tear your guts out.
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Dec 26, 2015 01:07
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Riosan posted:I wonder what the white hot ball of rage is doing this time of year?
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Dec 26, 2015 01:33
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I used to be into the idea of a flat tax. I would explain it was consistent with the rest of my pinko ideals by saying any "serious" flat tax proposal was composed of a rate, and an amount which isn't taxed, so by raising both of those numbers, you could be as progressive as you liked! One day a friend told me, "That's just called 'having two tax brackets'. Once you have two, what's the disadvantage of having more?" Is that easy enough to understand? It was for me. 
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Dec 26, 2015 02:00
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The concept of diminishing utility can be demonstrated with a relatively simple thought experiment: What's the smallest amount of money you would stop to pick up off the ground? Would you stop for it if you were a millionaire? Would you puck up anything smaller if you were homeless?
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Dec 26, 2015 02:09
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Doc Hawkins posted:I used to be into the idea of a flat tax. I would explain it was consistent with the rest of my pinko ideals by saying any "serious" flat tax proposal was composed of a rate, and an amount which isn't taxed, so by raising both of those numbers, you could be as progressive as you liked! Yeah, that's right. The conservative proponents for a Flat Tax always deflect criticisms of the scheme by promising a certain level of income that won't be taxes in consideration for cost-of-living expenses. Nobody ever calls them out on how that's already a thing that the current system of taxation does, given enough tinkering.
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Dec 26, 2015 02:16
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So wait has SA now turned into chicago-style austerians in favor of hard money and balanced budgets, just to spite Bernie? what?
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Dec 26, 2015 02:41
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Luigi Thirty posted:he he yeah burn the south, kill everyone in the s I'm a little suspicious of this chart (unless there's something I'm missing), as it shows El Paso county, Colorado, in orange, and El Paso is comprised mainly of Colorado Springs, the whitest white-burb to have ever whited in Colorado (other than maybe Aspen and Vail). Like, I know exactly one black person from the Springs.
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Dec 26, 2015 02:50
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icantfindaname posted:So wait has SA now turned into chicago-style austerians in favor of hard money and balanced budgets, just to spite Bernie? what? Yeah I don't get the MMT bashing either. McAllister, Sanders hearing more personal stories of those affected by the IP conflict would probably make him still more opposed to Israel. They're an apartheid state, and a really entitled ally too. I'm pretty sure his more recent statements are more a reflection of a desire to be elected than a very late turn to zionism because AIPAC schmuck told him about how sad it is to live in fear of piss powered rockets.
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Dec 26, 2015 02:59
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icantfindaname posted:So wait has SA now turned into chicago-style austerians in favor of hard money and balanced budgets, just to spite Bernie? what? There's been a tendency by some people to attack any and everything that Bernie stands for lately, primarily because Berniebros are bad people and don't deserve to get what they want, as far as I can tell.
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Dec 26, 2015 03:06
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Well that and Bernie wants to subject the Federal Reserve, an organization that should be very nimble, to the same executive nominating process that is currently overseeing agency vacancies throughout the government. It's not like the Fed is too important to stall a nomination, poo poo, if Ginsburg died tonight there is a pretty good chance there'd be a vacany on the bench for quite some time. As far as I can tell he's also casting blame for the banks being Too Big to Fail (TM) which really has nothing to do with the Fed. loving with a generally independent central bank is not to the way to fix the financial sector, doing your loving job in the legislature is and Bernie's ideas don't address that. Too Big to Fail? Auditng the Fed and policing their lending isn't going to stop that, how about pushing some anti-trust policies and funding to agencies charged with making those (expensive) cases. Boon fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 03:15
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Goons love to cut off their noses to spite their face, yes
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Dec 26, 2015 03:17
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icantfindaname posted:So wait has SA now turned into chicago-style austerians in favor of hard money and balanced budgets, just to spite Bernie? what? What I got from the previous page or so was that Bernie is on record for wanting to audit the Fed. People are puzzled to say the least as to why, while others are going straight to calling it a dumb idea.
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Dec 26, 2015 03:17
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Another mosque is on fire in Texas. http://abc13.com/1136106/
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Dec 26, 2015 03:18
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The Maroon Hawk posted:I'm a little suspicious of this chart (unless there's something I'm missing), as it shows El Paso county, Colorado, in orange, and El Paso is comprised mainly of Colorado Springs, the whitest white-burb to have ever whited in Colorado (other than maybe Aspen and Vail). It's 6.5% black as of the 2010 census. Colorado Springs itself is about 6.3% black.
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Dec 26, 2015 03:24
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