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Hbomberguy posted:Luke being goober and the villain being uncool are not problems, or accidents. How did you read 'my opinions' and hear ' some problems/accidental goofs'? It doesn't mean he's required to like those portrayals.
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Dec 27, 2015 14:04
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Lmao
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Dec 27, 2015 14:07
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Electromax posted:How did you read 'my opinions' and hear ' some problems/accidental goofs'? It doesn't mean he's required to like those portrayals. I think, if you think a film is bad because a character doesn't act badass enough, you are watching films wrong. I could be misinterpreting 'Luke blows until the ending. Luke is still a goober'. But those viewpoints seem to go hand in hand. It's a weird way to read a film, to me.
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Dec 27, 2015 15:15
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I've always wanted to talk to some of those guys who were teenagers in the 1960s that, on camera, protested against racial integration. To see if they ever came around, whether they were embarrassed that their wrongheadedness was so well-documented, and how their lives generally turned out in spite of such a huge misstep. But I don't have access to any of those guys so maybe some of you dumb motherfuckers who think this movie is better than any of the original Star Wars trilogy because it's shiny and new and just came out can just keep me updated over the next 40-60 years?
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Dec 27, 2015 15:16
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Hbomberguy posted:I'm just writing my opinion. About their opinion. You get me? I saw a family member for Christmas, who didn't like TFA because Kylo Ren wasn't a badass. I wanted to argue but this thread sucked the life out of me.
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Dec 27, 2015 15:32
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ImpAtom posted:No, I'm really not. The "there are too many sequels and adapations" thing comes up often and it's a genuinely hollow and meaningless complaint. Lucas is using adaptations and sequels and remakes as an example of Hollywood playing it safe. That's not the same thing as saying they're bad in and of themselves. (Avatar, an original story, also played things safe as well.) Really, you seem to be knee-jerking a bit.
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Dec 27, 2015 15:33
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One thing I do appreciate about what JJ did with TFA is how he took some of the more absurd nitpicks and complaints about the PT and used them in TFA, as if he was daring people to criticize him. Examples: The complaint about R2-D2 having rocket jets. Well, if you thought that was dumb, here's BB-8, able to shoot several harpoons from his body! Don't like Jar-Jar or CGI Yoda? Here's Maz, who could have, and should have, been done with a puppet. Thought Grevious was stupid? Well, here's CGI Snoke.
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Dec 27, 2015 15:48
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I'll give you that last point if Snoke ever uses four lightsabres at once while coughing.
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Dec 27, 2015 15:50
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Davros1 posted:The complaint about R2-D2 having rocket jets. Well, if you thought that was dumb, here's BB-8, able to shoot several harpoons from his body! Not sure any of those examples are really equivalent. In particular, with CGI Yoda I remember it being really jarring at the time, not just because it was CGI, but because the CGI wasn't quite good enough. Now it is. Maz didn't drag me out of the moment to think "wow, that's really offputting." CGI Yoda totally did.
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Dec 27, 2015 16:26
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punchymcpunch posted:I'll give you that last point if Snoke ever uses four lightsabres at once while coughing. How about if Snoke dual wields lightsabers and also another one in his mouth? I was going to say he'll be dual wielding saber staff, but there was already a Jedi doing that in The Clone Wars. He's the same species as Dexter Jetster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcfV6yUUMhs
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Dec 27, 2015 16:34
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speng31b posted:Not sure any of those examples are really equivalent. In particular, with CGI Yoda I remember it being really jarring at the time, not just because it was CGI, but because the CGI wasn't quite good enough. Now it is. Maz didn't drag me out of the moment to think "wow, that's really offputting." CGI Yoda totally did. Similarly, Gollum looked much better in the first Hobbit movie than he ever did in the LOTR movies.
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Dec 27, 2015 16:44
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Cnut the Great posted:Similarly, Gollum looked much better in the first Hobbit movie than he ever did in the LOTR movies. Difference is that Gollum still looks pretty drat great in TTT and RotK. In AUJ he looks more detailed and expressive, but a tiny bit more cartoony. He was certainly the best effect in the new trilogy by a long way though.
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Dec 27, 2015 16:47
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A lightsaber version of Seven Samurai is at the top of my wish list. 
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Dec 27, 2015 17:04
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I honestly think this was a great way to start a new Star Wars trilogy, and I think people accusing it of being "unoriginal" are missing the point. The franchise has been around for forty years, and the three most recent entries were...less beloved than their predecessors. This movie being about Star Wars and about taking things back to the beginning and viewing them through the lens of in-universe Star Wars fans isn't cannibalization, it's self-reflection and reassurance.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:10
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Phylodox posted:Star Wars fans isn't cannibalization, it's self-reflection and reassurance. Hmm...sounds boring
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Dec 27, 2015 17:19
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Phylodox posted:This movie being about Star Wars The prequels are better at this.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:21
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Phylodox posted:I honestly think this was a great way to start a new Star Wars trilogy, and I think people accusing it of being "unoriginal" are missing the point. The franchise has been around for forty years, and the three most recent entries were...less beloved than their predecessors. This movie being about Star Wars and about taking things back to the beginning and viewing them through the lens of in-universe Star Wars fans isn't cannibalization, it's self-reflection and reassurance. The issue is that in the eyes of some, that turns TFA into a marketing move rather than a film, a feature-length ad for Disney's Star Wars.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:26
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I wonder what Rey's thoughts on sand are.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:27
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Motto posted:The issue is that in the eyes of some, that turns TFA into a marketing move rather than a film, a feature-length ad for Disney's Star Wars. If Disney's Star Wars stays at this level of quality and entertainment value, then... That's fine. I'm way past the concept that the series can be kept pure and contained. That idea went out the window decades ago.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:28
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Motto posted:marketing move rather than a film, a feature-length ad Which is something people have said with varying degrees of truth about every piece of Star Wars media other than A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. Probably Empire, when it came out, but today everybody gives it a pass for being the best movie. There's definitely nothing in Return of the Jedi or the prequels which might be construed to have existed purely to sell action figures.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:31
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Which is something people have said with varying degrees of truth about every piece of Star Wars media other than A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. Probably Empire, when it came out, but today everybody gives it a pass for being the best movie. It's not my own perspective, but I can see how it could color how others view the film, especially if they've had that idea in their heads ever since Disney bought the franchise.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:40
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Motto posted:It's not my own perspective, but I can see how it could color how others view the film, especially if they've had that idea in their heads ever since Disney bought the franchise. Well, there are some people who are just determined to not like this movie for whatever reason (people citing the fact that it's Disney or related to the Marvel films). They're gonna be determined to miss a lot of the points this movie was trying to make. Just look at the people deriding Kyle Reno for not being "badass" enough.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:45
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Which is something people have said with varying degrees of truth about every piece of Star Wars media other than A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. Probably Empire, when it came out, but today everybody gives it a pass for being the best movie. People certainly said it about A New Hope. Lucas made the bulk of his money from that movie off the back of all the shrewd merchandising he did. And as for Empire: The main reason Boba Fett showed up in the Holiday Special is because the toy companies were pestering Lucas for something they could market in advance of the movie.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:46
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Cnut the Great posted:And as for Empire: The main reason Boba Fett showed up in the Holiday Special is because the toy companies were pestering Lucas for something they could market in advance of the movie. Now that that's settled, what was up with the softcore Wookie VR porno?
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Dec 27, 2015 17:48
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Now that that's settled, what was up with the softcore Wookie VR porno? The 70s were a time when people were mixing a lot of different drugs together, in irresponsible ways.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:11
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Steve2911 posted:If Disney's Star Wars stays at this level of quality and entertainment value, then... That's fine. Could you elaborate on what "pure and contained" means?
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Dec 27, 2015 18:13
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speng31b posted:Not sure any of those examples are really equivalent. In particular, with CGI Yoda I remember it being really jarring at the time, not just because it was CGI, but because the CGI wasn't quite good enough. Now it is. Maz didn't drag me out of the moment to think "wow, that's really offputting." CGI Yoda totally did. Maybe it worked for you, but I would never have mistaken Maz, most importantly her face, for a practical effect or costume. So she was still clearly not a physical presence, which is a failure. Not quite as blatantly as the monsters in Han's hold, but noticeable, and worse for it because she's a character with dialogue and a lot more screen time. Perhaps if they had used more of Lupita's heavily made-up face superimposed onto Maz's body, or maybe an elderly lady's face with lines dubbed over by Lupita. Or even a puppet--Yoda in the OT still works better than Maz, in my opinion.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:18
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punchymcpunch posted:There's nothing incestuous about a sequel cannibalizing its own franchise, that's just what sequels are and how they work. Not really, no. Many sequels are more focused on elaborating on their characters' characteristics. For example, in the Rocky series only Rocky II really cannibalizes from its predecessor(s)*, and that's the one people feel is the most pointless. *Rocky Balboa does follow a lot of the same plot as the original, but the context is changed from "nobody fighting hopelessly" to "old champ trying to show he's still got it". The equivalent for Episode 7 would be if Luke Skywalker went and destroyed the new Death Star himself. computer parts fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 18:18
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rockopete posted:Maybe it worked for you, but I would never have mistaken Maz, most importantly her face, for a practical effect or costume. So she was still clearly not a physical presence, which is a failure. Not quite as blatantly as the monsters in Han's hold, but noticeable, and worse for it because she's a character with dialogue and a lot more screen time. Perhaps if they had used more of Lupita's heavily made-up face superimposed onto Maz's body, or maybe an elderly lady's face with lines dubbed over by Lupita. Or even a puppet--Yoda in the OT still works better than Maz, in my opinion. Mother of mercy, is this a religion based around the evils of CGI?
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Dec 27, 2015 18:20
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Lol the puppets in the OT look like fake drat garbage. I can't believe people prefer that to quality CGI. (And again I love that nobody thinks the Hulk or Iron Man need to be done as puppets, it's only Star Wars)
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Dec 27, 2015 18:31
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Saw it a second time last night and was happy to see it held up to a second viewing! Having seen it twice now, here's my thoughts. A Few Good Things: New characters are pretty awesome and are incredibly well-cast. Rey had me as soon as she whipped the two gangsters who came to steal her droid and I can not wait to see what a badass she eventually becomes. John Boyega nails his performance, especially finally baring his fangs and seeking a fight with Kylo Ren. I had predicted before the movie came out that his character was going to be a "surprise death" that gave Rey a reason to seek revenge on Kylo Ren and I was... almost... right. Hope he's not hurt too bad, but he got lightsabered up the spine so next movie should really have him with robot legs  It can't be said enough how important the genuine charisma and chemistry the actors have with each other is to all of this. I get the feeling that some of these dudes hang out together after work, whereas I felt like as soon as Lucas yelled "Cut!" everyone on the PT sets went off alone and smoked cigarettes in the corner somewhere. Poe didn't get all that much screen time comparatively but he definitely has "cocky bad-rear end" down pat. I didn't know anything about his character coming into the film (Like, I knew there was A Poe but not who or what the gently caress Poe was or is) and was legit surprised he survived the beginning of the film. These three are going to be great together. poo poo, I can't forget the droid, because they somehow made another lovable robot. Thumbs up and flame on.Everything about Kylo Ren was the best part of the film. His "Yes I am a legit bad-rear end" moment at the beginning of the film was perfect, and the tiny peeks you get at things like the Knights of Ren, the destruction of the New Jedi, and his struggle to be evil enough to live up to old Grand-dad are the best type of storytelling, enough to make you start imagining. Him unmasking so early in the film was unexpected and powerful, and a great way to get across how warped his relationship with the memory of Vader really is. I also like how his mask was sort of ragged near the bottom edges, not seamlessly perfect like Vader's was, since he's just cosplaying a Sith Lord while Vader was trapped living as one. He even began trying to undermine his master by taking a secret apprentice. I am really looking forward to seeing how his character develops in the next movies, because at the end of this movie holy poo poo talk about having a hell of a bad day at work. Everything is gorgeous. There's no CGI-Yodathing or video-game background with people standing in front of it to just yank you right out of the movie, everything looks believable and real. That lightsaber fight in the snow could have gone on for another ten minutes and I'd have been fine with it, the use of color and light in that whole sequence is really fantastic. Everything looks and feels like Star Wars. They aren't going to weird space operas and walking slowly down hallways but escaping monsters on a doomed pirate freighter and gravity-flip bullseye-shooting TIEs and poo poo. Hell yeah. Everything also sounds incredible. I especially noticed the horrid slobbering sounds of the rathtar, and the great metallic "clunk" every time BB-8 fell off something. The OT cast was used exceptionally well. I didn't expect Han to be such a big part of the film, I thought he'd have more of a Leia "Hey I'm here guys!" part, but I'm glad he didn't. You could tell Harrison Ford was enjoying the poo poo out of himself here and why not? The scenes with him talking to Leia were some of the very best in the movie. They got that relationship just right. "Luke is a Jedi. You're his father." Related to this is Luke Skywalker 's 80 seconds in the movie or whatever he actually got. I think saving Luke for the ending was awesome. Some people have talked about how closing on the weird helicopter shot of Luke & Rey on the island is kind of off-putting but I think deliberately so. It emphasizes how alone the two of them are, that they're "at sea" as it were, and that nothing is or can be as it was. It sets up such a sense of mystery and anticipation for the next film that I'll be there at midnight next time. A Few Bad Things: The movie is too short. It would really, really have benefited from another half-hour, specifically to build up Han and Rey's relationship a little more than we actually see, to give a much, much better explanation of the relationship of the Resistance to the Republic to the First Order, and to fix the most glaring problem the film had which was: The entire plot with the Starkiller Base felt shoehorned in and rushed, possibly a product of script-by-committee? I'd have been fine if this whole movie was "the search for Luke Skywalker's map!" thus making the reveal of Luke at the very end the true climax of the movie. Instead there's this weird thing that happens where a vaguely-defined superweapon blows up THE ENTIRE REPUBLIC FLEET AND LEADERSHIP and we leave the search for Luke for like thirty minutes of what is just sort of a rushed mess. It's cool, don't get me wrong, but it's just not necessary here at all. A superweapon as ridiculous as Starkiller should have been the focus of an entire movie. It makes the Death Star look like a cap gun, it's built into a loving planet how you going to blow that up??!? Instead this technological marvel gets announced, revealed, and destroyed in less total time than they hosed around podracing on Tattooine in Ep.1. It was the one callback to the old films that fell flat. An extra ten minutes or so on the buildup to the attack, the plan to destroy the base, etc. would have been great here, but as it was I just felt like it was out of place. Eh there wasn't that much bad besides that really, well done all around. A Few Things I Wonder About For Next Time: Why did Luke run away after Kylo Ren killed his padawans? Will we see a training montage? Are scenes with BB-8 & R2-D2 going to be as great as I think they are? Surely the next one won't have another superweapon... surely? A Spoilered Anecdote about My Nephew: My nephew was apparently crushed by Han Solo's death, telling us he teared up in the theater. On the drive home he began to create conspiracy theories by which Han could actually be alive and return in Ep.VIII, such as: Han can survive without his chest. Han was actually a shapeshifter in disguise. Han could ignore crippling injury and use a jetpack. Han was actually a Hanbot. Han Solo's loving mother wasn't as devoted to the idea that Han was alive as that kid is.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:37
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Cnut the Great posted:Seriously though, the entire interview is really really great. It's probably the best, most enlightening look into who George Lucas really is, as an artist and as a person, that I've ever seen. I'd recommend watching it even if you passionately hate the man and think he's a complete imbecile. At least then you can say that you hate him for actual, legitimate reasons. I don't share your reverence for Lucas and the prequels but this is a good interview. I find Lucas and the PT to be interesting, if nothing else. thanks for the link sponges fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 18:45
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JonathonSpectre posted:I get the feeling that some of these dudes hang out together after work, whereas I felt like as soon as Lucas yelled "Cut!" everyone on the PT sets went off alone and smoked cigarettes in the corner somewhere. You would be wrong, and the difference is ~movie magic~ rather than genuine relationships offscreen. Ahmed Best and Liam Neeson had fun together, Ewan was a party machine etc.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:51
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Is there a list somewhere of must watch episodes of the Clone Wars? I'm kind of interested but don't want to wade through that many episodes.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:53
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That's a
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Dec 27, 2015 18:53
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Spacebump posted:Is there a list somewhere of must watch episodes of the Clone Wars? I'm kind of interested but don't want to wade through that many episodes. The whole series is worth the watch, really. But if you want to skip ahead, about the midpoint of season 2 is where they were able to start integrating the feedback and remove the "snips and skyguy" crap. And then there's a timeskip in Season 3, and pretty much everything after that is amazing.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:08
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RBA Starblade posted:I wonder what Rey's thoughts on sand are. Pretty sure she hates the stuff.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:09
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hiddenriverninja posted:Could you elaborate on what "pure and contained" means? What I'm saying is that Disney running away with the franchise for the next 50 years is no different to what happened to the franchise in the 80s, 90s and 00s, except now everything will generally have a bigger budget and will probably be better, even if there are more toys and theme park rides now. Nothing's changed for the bad. Guy A. Person posted:(And again I love that nobody thinks the Hulk or Iron Man need to be done as puppets, it's only Star Wars)
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Dec 27, 2015 19:11
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Steve2911 posted:Some people have the idea that Star Wars should be a single person's vision, untouched by soulless corporations or slapped together plots. No different? There was plenty of crass commercialism but Lucas at least had the audacity to make six good films over the course of a long rear end time and then stop. More Star Wars For Ever is a very different approach entirely. Even the filmmaking is being mass-produced now.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:23
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Hbomberguy posted:Lucas at least had the audacity to make six good films over the course of a long rear end time and then stop. He made a trilogy, then allowed a bunch of EU material, then made another trilogy and introduced more, worse EU material (Clone Wars and such like). If he didn't sell up he'd probably have made another trilogy in another few years too. Just because Disney has the money to make their EU material in movie form rather than 1000 terrible books, terrible comics and terrible games, doesn't mean it'll automatically be worse. And 4.5 good films at most.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:27
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