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Neo Rasa posted:I don't, but the government sure does: old panthers, no not really. the new black panthers however. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/new-black-panther-party maybe not terrorist, but definaltly bigoted dickheads.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:20
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Lotka Volterra posted:I forget, did they take over public land and then threaten to kill anyone who attempted to remove them? They took over a state building in california if I remember right.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:21
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Man Whore posted:Actually Oregon has open-carry so unless they start using those guns, yes it is. the threat of violence is not peaceful
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Jan 4, 2016 01:26
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Lotka Volterra posted:I forget, did they take over public land and then threaten to kill anyone who attempted to remove them? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act yes to the first, no to the second.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:28
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dang ^^^^drilldo squirt posted:They took over a state building in california if I remember right. Oddly enough, in protest of California's (under Reagan) passing of the Mulford Act, which banned Open Carry in response to the Black Panthers.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:29
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drilldo squirt posted:They took over a state building in california if I remember right. You remember wrong, they attempted to enter the assembly, were kicked out by police, and instead protested on the steps outside.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:31
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So I apologize if it was posted but I'm not going to read page after page of goons lusting for redneck blood, but where is the statement saying that they will shoot anyone who tries to arrest them? Like I think III%ers are laughable at best and human scum at worst but frankly the people calling for no mercy ruby ridge re-does are kind of disturbing.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:35
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I don't think we really need to sort out how problematic the Panthers were to understand that occupying federal property toting guns and daring the Feds to act constitutes a goddamn threat.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:41
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Man Whore posted:So I apologize if it was posted but I'm not going to read page after page of goons lusting for redneck blood, but where is the statement saying that they will shoot anyone who tries to arrest them? Like I think III%ers are laughable at best and human scum at worst but frankly the people calling for no mercy ruby ridge re-does are kind of disturbing. "We will be here as long as it takes," Bundy said. "We have no intentions of using force upon anyone, (but) if force is used against us, we would defend ourselves." http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/
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Jan 4, 2016 01:42
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I don't think we really need to sort out how problematic the Panthers were to understand that occupying federal property toting guns and daring the Feds to act constitutes a goddamn threat. It's interesting to see the dichotomy of how the public and government reacted differently to the panthers and how they are reacting to this group.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:43
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His Purple Majesty posted:Reminder that this is the usual response when Americans have protests about corrupt police departments, the enviroment, wall street deregulation, the ballooning cost of college and other real issues. Enjoy the rest of your day citizen. "But, you see, we are in fact objectively better off now than in the past!" -A DnD Poster
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Jan 4, 2016 01:44
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Man Whore posted:So I apologize if it was posted but I'm not going to read page after page of goons lusting for redneck blood, but where is the statement saying that they will shoot anyone who tries to arrest them?. Maybe you shouldn't rely on a comedy forum for your sole source of news then? The quote is in like every story on this. quote:"We will be here as long as it takes," Bundy said. "We have no intentions of using force upon anyone, (but) if force is used against us, we would defend ourselves."
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Jan 4, 2016 01:44
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Man Whore posted:So I apologize if it was posted but I'm not going to read page after page of goons lusting for redneck blood, but where is the statement saying that they will shoot anyone who tries to arrest them? Like I think III%ers are laughable at best and human scum at worst but frankly the people calling for no mercy ruby ridge re-does are kind of disturbing. quote:Noting that the group isn’t holding hostages, Ryan Bundy, who is also involved in the siege, echoed his brother, telling the Oregonian that the group doesn’t want to resort to violence but will not rule it out if authorities attempt to remove the occupiers from the property. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/01/03/armed-militia-bundy-brothers-take-over-federal-building-in-rural-oregon/ With others saying they expect to die, and I don't think they mean committing ritual suicide.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:44
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Man Whore posted:So I apologize if it was posted but I'm not going to read page after page of goons lusting for redneck blood, but where is the statement saying that they will shoot anyone who tries to arrest them? Like I think III%ers are laughable at best and human scum at worst but frankly the people calling for no mercy ruby ridge re-does are kind of disturbing. Meh. It's less disturbing in the context of what these militias actually believe. Arming themselves and taking over property that does not belong to them is just the straw that is breaking the camel's back for a lot of people. Especially given the treatment of other groups who have done far less and have fought far more nobler causes. So yeah, in the context of history and current events, you will easily find a lot of people who will not shed a tear should these people find themselves the targets of a violent response. Is it what Jesus would do? Probably not, but most people wouldn't consider themselves saints anyway. Personally, I want to see them arrested and charged with crimes, but I can understand why some might be so tired that they would be ok with seeing them drop dead. I don't necessarily agree with them but I totally get it and I wouldn't exactly be weeping for them if it happened.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:47
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Lotka Volterra posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/01/03/armed-militia-bundy-brothers-take-over-federal-building-in-rural-oregon/ I don't think a Japanese tanto knife would pierce deep enough into a beer gut for ritual suicide.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:47
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drilldo squirt posted:It's interesting to see the dichotomy of how the public and government reacted differently to the panthers and how they are reacting to this group. Its not comparable, the Panthers were fully compliant with the police and were assured they could keep their weapons if they didn't violate the law.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:49
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SedanChair posted:Obama should personally retake the compound using only his presidential convoy and the SUV with a minigun in it. I finally got around to seeing the last three episodes yesterday.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:50
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Jarmak posted:Its not comparable, the Panthers were fully compliant with the police and were assured they could keep their weapons if they didn't violate the law. It's very comparable considering they are both armed groups of men who disagree with government policy.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:51
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ToastyPotato posted:Meh. It's less disturbing in the context of what these militias actually believe. Arming themselves and taking over property that does not belong to them is just the straw that is breaking the camel's back for a lot of people. Especially given the treatment of other groups who have done far less and have fought far more nobler causes. So yeah, in the context of history and current events, you will easily find a lot of people who will not shed a tear should these people find themselves the targets of a violent response. Is it what Jesus would do? Probably not, but most people wouldn't consider themselves saints anyway. I've said it already, but yeah. I don't actually want them to die, but after seeing these assholes get away with this poo poo constantly while children die for the crime of being not-white, it starts to wear on your nerves and the first thought that comes to mind is "I wish these idiots would get exactly what they're seeking". Constant disillusionment with the state of the justice system, I guess.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:52
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Man Whore posted:Like I think III%ers are laughable at best and human scum at worst but frankly the people calling for no mercy ruby ridge re-does are kind of disturbing. I doubt anybody seriously wants that. It would be another event the militia movement would use to further radicalize their sympathizers and create more willing martyrs among the already fanatical. No sane person wants another OKC bombing and the wingnuts are already wound up way more than they were in the 90s. I guess it's hard to separate comedy forums talk from serious discussion sometimes but I think most people in this thread would like to see these people nonviolently make complete fools of themselves. They seem to be off to a pretty good start.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:54
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drilldo squirt posted:It's very comparable considering they are both armed groups of men who disagree with government policy. It's not comparable because the dudes in Oregon are threatening to shoot any LEOs who try to remove them from the government property in which they are trespassing.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:55
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Lotka Volterra posted:I've said it already, but yeah. I don't actually want them to die, but after seeing these assholes get away with this poo poo constantly while children die for the crime of being not-white, it starts to wear on your nerves and the first thought that comes to mind is "I wish these idiots would get exactly what they're seeking". Constant disillusionment with the state of the justice system, I guess. agreed. I honestly don't care what happens to them. If they get surrounded and surrender peaceably, awesome. If they put up and get slaughtered to the last man, again find by me. less sovereign citizen dicks in the world. I just hope no kids die.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:56
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These guys are waiting for the government to come and gun them down for the a rather small crime of trespassing. That's why they say they are prepared to die, they want to be martyrs. If they shoot first then they lose all credibility and no one will give a drat if they die. However if the government starts shooting and kills them all then they believe they will spark a revolution. They aren't gonna shoot poo poo because the governments not gonna shoot poo poo, and if they do then the publics not going to give a poo poo and suddenly militia membership is going to get a whole lot less popular.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:57
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ToastyPotato posted:It's not comparable because the dudes in Oregon are threatening to shoot any LEOs who try to remove them from the government property in which they are trespassing. How is the government reacting to that, and how did they react to the existence of the black panther party?
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Jan 4, 2016 01:59
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I don't think we really need to sort out how problematic the Panthers were to understand that occupying federal property toting guns and daring the Feds to act constitutes a goddamn threat. Problematic you say...
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Jan 4, 2016 01:59
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:I doubt anybody seriously wants that. It would be another event the militia movement would use to further radicalize their sympathizers and create more willing martyrs among the already fanatical. No sane person wants another OKC bombing and the wingnuts are already wound up way more than they were in the 90s. Yeah. Why wish for something like this, if you could wish for Civil War 2.0 and Robo-Sherman nuking the entire South instead?
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Jan 4, 2016 02:00
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Man Whore posted:These guys are waiting for the government to come and gun them down for the a rather small crime of trespassing. That's why they say they are prepared to die, they want to be martyrs. If they shoot first then they lose all credibility and no one will give a drat if they die. However if the government starts shooting and kills them all then they believe they will spark a revolution. These are people who are capable of convincing themselves of literally anything so it really doesn't matter who shoots first if this ends violently.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:00
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For someone who's already a militia member or part of the whole life style but if joe shmoe is watching cnn and the FBI starts gunning people down, I think he might start listening to the words these people are saying. I mean they won't and so he won't but it would very much matter who shot first.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:03
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Question, why is it that an armed militia can occupy federal property and not get carpet bombed. or at least surrounded and arrested en masse. how is this not put in the bracket of terrorism or insurgent action?
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Jan 4, 2016 02:04
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Al-Saqr posted:Question, why is it that an armed militia can occupy federal property and not get carpet bombed. or at least surrounded and arrested en masse. how is this not put in the bracket of terrorism or insurgent action? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
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Jan 4, 2016 02:05
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So are the Feds gonna end up blockading these guys in the buildings they've occupied? They're in a bit more than just some shed, it's a moderately sized grouping of buildings that they're in, and to my understanding the only reason these asshats were able to occupy them is because they were closed on a Sunday. What happens when they try to reopen tomorrow?
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Jan 4, 2016 02:06
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Man Whore posted:For someone who's already a militia member or part of the whole life style but if joe shmoe is watching cnn and the FBI starts gunning people down, I think he might start listening to the words these people are saying. So I'm guessing you weren't alive during the Clinton presidency
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Jan 4, 2016 02:07
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Al-Saqr posted:Question, why is it that an armed militia can occupy federal property and not get carpet bombed. or at least surrounded and arrested en masse. how is this not put in the bracket of terrorism or insurgent action? Because they're a bunch of dumb Barney Fifes with no Andy Griffith to keep them in line, and no one takes them seriously enough to initiate forceful action against 10-20 dudes squatting in an unused building during the middle of winter. The best way to get rid of those idiots is to let them stay there long enough to realize just how little anyone cares about them and how much the locals now dislike them.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:08
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drilldo squirt posted:How is the government reacting to that, and how did they react to the existence of the black panther party? The BPP was labeled one of the greatest internal threats by the FBI and the federal government devoted a large amount of resources into investigating and destroying them? quote:In August 1967, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) instructed its program "COINTELPRO" to "neutralize" what the FBI called "black nationalist hate groups" and other dissident groups. In September 1968, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover described the Black Panthers as "the greatest threat to the internal security of the country".[55] By 1969, the Black Panthers and their allies had become primary COINTELPRO targets, singled out in 233 of the 295 authorized "Black Nationalist" COINTELPRO actions.[56] The goals of the program were to prevent the unification of militant black nationalist groups and to weaken the power of their leaders, as well as to discredit the groups to reduce their support and growth. The initial targets included the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, the Revolutionary Action Movement and the Nation of Islam. Leaders who were targeted included the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., Stokely Carmichael, H. Rap Brown, Maxwell Stanford and Elijah Muhammad. The Federal government, on the other hand, haven't really said much of anything about these militias and did literally nothing at the Bundy ranch. They haven't even mobilized for this one.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:09
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Jarmak posted:So I'm guessing you weren't alive during the Clinton presidency only for half of it, but what effects did waco and ruby ridge have on militia membership? Now imagine ruby ridge only there's a live stream so people can watch the FBI shoot a kid and his dog in real-time.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:11
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ToastyPotato posted:The BPP was labeled one of the greatest internal threats by the FBI and the federal government devoted a large amount of resources into investigating and destroying them? Thank you for helping me point that out.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:15
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ToastyPotato posted:Arming themselves and taking over property that does not belong to them is just the straw that is breaking the camel's back for a lot of people. Especially given the treatment of other groups who have done far less and have fought far more nobler causes. But, as it stands right now, these armed protesters are the ones standing at having "done far less." I think you, and many others, are stuck on the latter half of your statement. In believing the Oregon protesters' cause ignoble—and it surely is—you convinced yourself that taking over a loving shack in the middle of nowhere is worse than the massive destruction of urban and suburban property wrought by the left's myriad protest movements in the last decade alone. Right now, unless these "militiamen" actually shoot people, they should probably be charged with trespassing and then released just like most every other Occupy protester so far.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:16
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ToastyPotato posted:The BPP was labeled one of the greatest internal threats by the FBI and the federal government devoted a large amount of resources into investigating and destroying them? I assume they will do something now. they took over a loving national refuge visitors center. and are not planning on leaving until they get their insane demands, or else. https://news.vice.com/article/armed-militiamen-occupy-wildlife-refuge-in-oregon-and-threaten-showdown-with-feds?utm_source=vicefbus
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Jan 4, 2016 02:17
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Man Whore posted:only for half of it, but what effects did waco and ruby ridge have on militia membership? Now imagine ruby ridge only there's a live stream so people can watch the FBI shoot a kid and his dog in real-time. I wasn't talking about Waco and Ruby Ridge specifically, I was referencing the broader fact the stated motivations of the militia movement don't intersect with factual grievances in any way, there was a new ridiculous conspiracy theory or claim seemingly every day. I mean gently caress, just look at the easily disprovable bullshit they're using to justify this action.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:18
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Aspergeoisie posted:But, as it stands right now, these armed protesters are the ones standing at having "done far less." I think you, and many others, are stuck on the latter half of your statement. In believing the Oregon protesters' cause ignoble—and it surely is—you convinced yourself that taking over a loving shack in the middle of nowhere is worse than the massive destruction of urban and suburban property wrought by the left's myriad protest movements in the last decade alone. They've essentially shut down an entire Wildlife Refuge, are planning on vandalizing and destroying the land, and are threatening violence against anyone who tries to remove them. And they haven't had police beat, arrest, and otherwise harrass them like all of those leftist movements or, you know, a string of loving murder by cop that set most of them off.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:19
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