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Man Whore posted:only for half of it, but what effects did waco and ruby ridge have on militia membership? Now imagine ruby ridge only there's a live stream so people can watch the FBI shoot a kid and his dog in real-time. I don't know, but they probably provoked the OKC bombing.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:20
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What caused the ride of the militia movement and conspiracy theories?
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Jan 4, 2016 02:21
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CalmDownMate posted:What caused the ride of the militia movement and conspiracy theories? Liberals and modern society threatening their way of life.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:21
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Liberals acting "smug". Ftfy.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:23
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https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2012/08/21/ruby-ridge-carved-niche-history Feds probably not eager to throw gasoline on the fire again.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:26
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I thought it was obama considering how many militias popped up when he became president.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:27
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CalmDownMate posted:What caused the ride of the militia movement and conspiracy theories? An inability to use racism as a means of placating the lower classes as the wider public perception of race relations changed, and said lower classes beginning to realize their complete lack of power when no longer allowed to violently suppress an outgroup.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:27
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Jarmak posted:I wasn't talking about Waco and Ruby Ridge specifically, I was referencing the broader fact the stated motivations of the militia movement don't intersect with factual grievances in any way, there was a new ridiculous conspiracy theory or claim seemingly every day. Thats true but in the 90's you didn't have cops shooting unarmed people on the news every week(Rodney king was beaten so it doesn't count!) and the government literally spying on us and nothing being done about it as common knowledge. The reason militias are as small as they are is because they are taking on stupid right wing pet causes instead of things the public is actually concerned about. but I am seeing some very left wing people waving around III%er flags now because they think they are the only ones doing anything about the militization of police and the eroding of the 5th and 14th ammendment. Goons are right about the far right wing not caring about black people dying but they very much have noticed who has done the killing. Man Whore fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 02:27
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Jarmak posted:I wasn't talking about Waco and Ruby Ridge specifically, I was referencing the broader fact the stated motivations of the militia movement don't intersect with factual grievances in any way, there was a new ridiculous conspiracy theory or claim seemingly every day. It's funny since they can't really say why they are doing it. They come up with all these excuses that make no sense.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:28
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drilldo squirt posted:It's funny since they can't really say why they are doing it. They come up with all these excuses that make no sense. They're doing it because "WOLVERINES!"
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Jan 4, 2016 02:36
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Really, they're there because they want to be there. No one asked them, and sure as poo poo no one wants their "help" or "support." http://www.occupydemocrats.com/oregon-ranchers-to-bundy-militia-go-home-we-dont-want-you-here/
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Jan 4, 2016 02:39
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People comparing this to protestors in the city aren't doing anyone a bit of good. There are a multitude of differences between these guys and other stuff that happens in populated areas that aren't related to skin color. Although yea if they were flying ISIS flags they'd probably be dead, but then they probably wouldn't have given a press conference either.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:40
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Al-Saqr posted:Question, why is it that an armed militia can occupy federal property and not get carpet bombed. or at least surrounded and arrested en masse. how is this not put in the bracket of terrorism or insurgent action? Because it's a useless shed in the middle of nowhere that no one cares about, and they haven't shot anyone. The only crimes they've actually committed are trespassing, probably breaking and entering, and maybe some property damage. Shockingly enough, there aren't any laws that say that non-violent protesters (if just saying violent things or carrying legally owned weapons made a protest violent then it'd be a whole lot easier for undercover officers to manufacture excuses to bust a protest) can be summarily slaughtered for conducting a sit-in. Occupy managed to occupy government property all over the country for months or (even years, in some areas) before anyone cared enough to disperse them, without anyone being killed by the cops. Modern anti-protest doctrine is that there's no point in messing with protesters that aren't in some really public place, threatening private property, endangering people, or obstructing people's lives. If there's no pressing need to deal with them immediately, and they're not in a particularly visible public place, then it's simplest to just wait them out - they'll fall out of the news cycle and lose visibility pretty quickly, and after a while they'll get bored and disperse on their own, without any need to endanger police officers or risk an escalation. If they break anything in the meantime, the protest leaders can be fined, sued, or prosecuted for it later once their supporters go home. Of course, local authorities often override that because mayors can't take letting protesters protest for extended periods, but the federal government has no problem waiting them out and turning them into "the assholes shutting down the refuge for everyone" rather than "the martyrs struck down by government goon squads".
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Jan 4, 2016 03:00
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Are there any solid sources on whether or not Law Enforcement are on the scene yet?
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Jan 4, 2016 03:06
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Cops have always been shooting people, duders. It's just being reported more easily now that every phone has a camera and instant internet.Jarmak posted:You remember wrong, they attempted to enter the assembly, were kicked out by police, and instead protested on the steps outside. Nope. They verbally bitch slapped Capitol security who tried to stop them on bullshit grounds and their group was on the steps and in the gallery with long guns. As was/is their right. It's not like they'd been silent about what policing the police meant to them either. As was/is also their right. Man Whore posted:only for half of it, but what effects did waco and ruby ridge have on militia membership? Now imagine ruby ridge only there's a live stream so people can watch the FBI shoot a kid and his dog in real-time. Those events boosted militia participation to even higher levels in the mid 90's and didn't have the deterrence effect you're masturbating over. What killed the militia movement was the fact that OKC took out a daycare as collateral.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:08
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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I was reading the article about ruby ridge someone linked earlier and found an incident that sounds mighty familiar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Freemen So see you guys in 3 months when these guys surrender and get arrested for trespassing. DeusExMachinima posted:Those events boosted militia participation to even higher levels in the mid 90's and didn't have the deterrence effect you're masturbating over. What deterrence effect am I masturbating over? I'm just saying the FBI isn't going to start the standoff by gunning these guys down because that had very bad effects a long time ago and modern technological and political climate might make it worse. Man Whore fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 03:09
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Lotka Volterra posted:They've essentially shut down an entire Wildlife Refuge, are planning on vandalizing and destroying the land, and are threatening violence against anyone who tries to remove them. And they haven't had police beat, arrest, and otherwise harrass them like all of those leftist movements or, you know, a string of loving murder by cop that set most of them off. They broke into a building that is closed for the winter anyways because the weather there gets too bad to keep the place open, and are sitting there waiting for Big Fed to come in so they can martyr themselves. Shut down all the roads into that place, cut all the utilities, and then arrest anyone that wants to leave and go clean up the frozen bodies when it's time to open the place up in the spring.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:10
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Aspergeoisie posted:is worse than the massive destruction of urban and suburban property wrought by the left's myriad protest movements in the last decade alone. this is literally you: 
Venom Snake fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 03:11
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How dare property be damaged in the quest for a better future. Obviously these BRAVE PATRIOTS standing up to BIG GOVERNMENT for their right to set forests on fire and kill firemen are the real heroes.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:16
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Venom Snake posted:this is literally you: I have always wondered, is this the cartoonist writing notes to himself? I mean, we already have a cartoon here made by some whitey crying about martin luther king pretty clearly, why would the cartoonist then make like a couple paragraphs of annotations to the same image?
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Jan 4, 2016 03:17
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Man Whore posted:Thats true but in the 90's you didn't have cops shooting unarmed people on the news every week(Rodney king was beaten so it doesn't count!) and the government literally spying on us and nothing being done about it as common knowledge. The reason militias are as small as they are is because they are taking on stupid right wing pet causes instead of things the public is actually concerned about. but I am seeing some very left wing people waving around III%er flags now because they think they are the only ones doing anything about the militization of police and the eroding of the 5th and 14th ammendment. It's adorable that you think all of this stuff is new when it used to be far worse, not better. The militia types support local police killing black people, it's the feds coming in to stop them they're up in arms about.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:17
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Venom Snake posted:this is literally you: why does MLK look vaguely Asian? CommanderApaul posted:They broke into a building that is closed for the winter anyways because the weather there gets too bad to keep the place open, and are sitting there waiting for Big Fed to come in so they can martyr themselves. Shut down all the roads into that place, cut all the utilities, and then arrest anyone that wants to leave and go clean up the frozen bodies when it's time to open the place up in the spring. probably this.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:18
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Jarmak posted:It's adorable that you think all of this stuff is new when it used to be far worse, not better. I don't think its worse now, Its just becoming increasingly publicized. As to the second part, uhhh if you say so but I know a lot of "anarcho-capitalists" IRL who ran off to join a militia because the government keeps gunning people down. Like the far-right isn't just made up of good ole boys just like the far left isn't made up entirely of tankies. Man Whore fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 03:20
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Man Whore posted:I don't think its worse now, Its just becoming increasingly publicized. As to the second part, uhhh if you say so but I know a lot of "anarcho-capitalists" IRL who ran off to join a militia because the government keeps gunning people down. The federal government is rather good about keeping it's trigger figure in check, local police and governments; not so much. The Fed these days is pretty much the only one really keeping police in line see: the recent justice department investigations.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:23
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Man Whore posted:I don't think its worse now, Its just becoming increasingly publicized. As to the second part, uhhh if you say so but I know a lot of "anarcho-capitalists" IRL who ran off to join a militia because the government keeps gunning people down. It's becoming increasing publicized in large part because people increasingly care. We knew about COINTELPRO and the LAPD in the 90s
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Jan 4, 2016 03:24
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Dapper_Swindler posted:why does MLK look vaguely Asian?  Apparently MLK is just a vaguely Asian looking dude.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:25
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Venom Snake posted:The federal government is rather good about keeping it's trigger figure in check, local police and governments; not so much. The Fed these days is pretty much the only one really keeping police in line see: the recent justice department investigations. Oh I know that, but in their thinking, they don't really make a whole lot of distinction between branches of government.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:26
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Man Whore posted:Oh I know that, but in their thinking, they don't really make a whole lot of distinction between branches of government. But they support local sheriff offices and police departments; they hate the Fed.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:26
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Man Whore posted:I don't think its worse now, Its just becoming increasingly publicized. As to the second part, uhhh if you say so but I know a lot of "anarcho-capitalists" IRL who ran off to join a militia because the government keeps gunning people down. "Anarcho-capitalism" kind of gives the opposite of a left-wing vibe.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:27
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No Pants posted:"Anarcho-capitalism" kind of gives the opposite of a left-wing vibe. Yeah but they consider themselves left wing because of things like abortion and militarization. I don't know why. Venom Snake posted:But they support local sheriff offices and police departments; they hate the Fed. not always. There was a militia in either Ohio or michigan that got arrested like 5 years ago because they were planning on gunning down a patrol car and taking the guns from it to spark THE REVOLUTION! Man Whore fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 03:29
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I can't see the feds actually shooting anyone unless they start trying to literally burn down the refuge, start shooting people, or something similarly extreme. It's a pleasant thought to masturbate to if you're fed up with the ultra-right, but it's exactly what these militia types hope will happen and if it does will undoubtedly set off more incidents.Man Whore posted:not always. There was a militia in either Ohio or michigan that got arrested like 5 years ago because they were planning on gunning down a patrol car and taking the guns from it to spark THE REVOLUTION! See the militia's rhetoric in this case. They like and support sheriffs so long as the sheriffs support the militia, and will turn on them without hesitation or regret if the local law enforcement opposes the militia.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvC4xq32AX8
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Jan 4, 2016 03:34
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Venom Snake posted:But they support local sheriff offices and police departments; they hate the Fed. The Fed is a bank they hate for reasons they don't fully understand but they also hate the federal government in general
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Jan 4, 2016 03:36
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Man Whore posted:Actually Oregon has open-carry so unless they start using those guns, yes it is. Guns are illegal in federal buildings, nice try though.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:37
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Man Whore posted:Yeah but they consider themselves left wing because of things like abortion and militarization. I don't know why. It doesn't sound any different from right-wing libertarianism to me. 
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Jan 4, 2016 03:40
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Cythereal posted:See the militia's rhetoric in this case. They like and support sheriffs so long as the sheriffs support the militia, and will turn on them without hesitation or regret if the local law enforcement opposes the militia. heres the militia that was involved btw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutaree Kazak_Hstan posted:Guns are illegal in federal buildings, nice try though. Oh yeah they are breaking the law but until they start popping off rounds and hurting people its "peaceful". I'm just saying its not terrorism until they, you know, start committing acts of terrorism. No Pants posted:It doesn't sound any different from right-wing libertarianism to me. "Anarchism is leftist Ergo We are leftist!" Man Whore fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 03:40
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Venom Snake posted:this is literally you: I dont think he's bitching about the BLM. I think he's pointing out how some posts blow these rednecks out of proportion. We part from the base that noone here is complaining about the black community's protests. In any case the ones who are "literally like that artist" are those calling for death squads only because they don't like the people who are protesting...
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Jan 4, 2016 03:46
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Main Paineframe posted:Because it's a useless shed in the middle of nowhere that no one cares about Can we dispose of this dumb bit of acquired consensus? It's an office. It's peoples' workplace. It's not some empty shed. The refuge doesn't manage itself. The people who work in that building manage it. An armed occupation of their workplace impedes their ability to do their jobs. Interference with agency function is a crime, conspiracy to interfere with agency function is another crime, and bringing firearms, setting up defensive positions, etc. are a bunch of other crimes. I don't know how people here are dumb enough to believe that somehow this armed takeover is magically not a crime until the moment they shoot a cop.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:47
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well it literally is an empty shed until winter is over. That's also why the government hasn't bothered to surround the place yet.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:52
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Man Whore posted:
Whether it's terrorism or not I think is a fruitless semantic issue (though if anwar al awliki is a terrorist for saying bad words about America and recruiting people, so are they). They have clearly articulated an intent to instigate a shooting fight with the federal government and committed over acts in furtherance of it. At some point we have to take them at their word. They're a bunch of violent criminals, whether we want to call them terrorists or insurrectionists or dumb white trash or whatever. They don't have to fire shots before they're deemed violent. 'I've got these guns and they mean I can break laws and gently caress you oh and if you come stop me I'll shoot you' paired with breaking those laws is a violent act.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:55
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