Popular Thug Drink posted:

there's no 'let them surrender'. the cops aren't even there. these dudes can just stop protesting. it's not like some hostage situation or anything, the only reason they're still hanging around is because people are still paying attention to them. it is pretty cool i guess that they're driving so many leftists up the wall just by internet begging for doritos so they can cosplay valley forge miles from civilization

Popular Thug Drink posted:

if these guys had any balls they'd be actually building bombs and shooting cops, not choosing the most passive protest site possible to attract attention

it's a sit in, with guns. i wouldn't call this armed insurrection any more than a bunch of rednecks in a hunting camp getting drunk and whining about obama

Condiv posted:

they've threatened to attack police arresting them as a group, i'd call that insurrection. especially since they're a militia.

Condiv posted:

police and fbi don't have to attack and make these guys martyrs btw, just surround them and wait them out and capture them as they leave. they don't want to starve/freeze to death they can hand themselves over to law enforcement.

Condiv posted:

police and fbi don't have to attack and make these guys martyrs btw, just surround them and wait them out and capture them as they leave. they don't want to starve/freeze to death they can hand themselves over to law enforcement.

Popular Thug Drink posted:

yeah these are what we call "empty boasts". the dude nominally in charge has said he doesn't think the feds will even try to arrest them

quote:

well i've got good news for you because that's exactly what the feds are doing

Condiv posted:

he doesn't think he'll be arrested because he hasn't been when he pulled this poo poo last time. if we keep treating these nutjobs with kid gloves they'll just get bolder

enraged_camel posted:

yeah, maybe they will occupy a US forest service facility next time

enraged_camel posted:

yeah, maybe they will occupy a US forest service facility next time

Aesop Poprock posted:

I asked this in a different thread as well, but are authorities blocking the road to keep other people from joining or resupplying them, or are they not really giving a poo poo? I can't decide if them giving up because of zero planning or because people don't give enough of a gently caress to help them is the funniest outcome.

Condiv posted:

he doesn't think he'll be arrested because he hasn't been when he pulled this poo poo last time. if we keep treating these nutjobs with kid gloves they'll just get bolder

Condiv posted:

really? cause as far as I've heard the feds are nowhere in sight and the most recent press conference was asking these shitheads to go home. there's a world of difference between arresting these guys and letting them go home you know...

enraged_camel posted:

I don't think many leftists are being driven up the wall over this.

If anything, most people who say "feds should go in and crush them" are authoritarian right-wingers.

Condiv posted:

or maybe they'll go murder some cops like last time

Condiv posted:

or maybe they'll go murder some cops like last time

enraged_camel posted:

I don't think many leftists are being driven up the wall over this.

If anything, most people who say "feds should go in and crush them" are authoritarian right-wingers.

Aesop Poprock posted:

Just checking, are we pro or anti cop murder this week?

enraged_camel posted:

And what exactly would their thought process be? "We occupied a remote birdwatching station, knowing full well the feds would ignore us." Followed by, "how dare the feds ignore us?? We need to go kill some cops to show them we're serious"?

Popular Thug Drink posted:

when your kid is having a tantrum, you don't want to encourage them to cry even harder with some big overreaction. it's better to treat them as if they aren't freaking out over nothing

quote:

as irritating as it may be to you that the government is taking a light touch this is the best way to diffuse this kind of behavior, by not taking them seriously and by letting all of their allies point out how dumb they are. cliven bundy's case is still going through the courts, the two dudes who sparked this thing surrendered to police custody, and it's silly to call for blood when a bunch of yahoos are trespassing on public lands puffing out their chests for the camera. they're only empowered to do this because so many people are annoyed by them that the media is guaranteed to cover it. it's real life clickbait and you're allowed to not care how a bunch of anti-government dudes a thousand miles away from you feel like wasting their time

Condiv posted:

is there ever a period where we've been pro cop-murder? as far as i can tell, the law enforcement thread was mostly "cops should be held accountable for unnecessary force"

Condiv posted:

what was their thought process last time?

enraged_camel posted:

Answer the god drat question. How exactly do you see their current thought process evolving into one where they pre-emptively shoot cops?

Ratoslov posted:

I seem to remember a fair bit of baying for cop blood around the Chris Dorner thing.

Condiv posted:

no, because it's an idiotic question. you're presupposing that all of these people are fully rational and making good choices that will advance their cause. i do not think that's the case for all of them, and that there may be splinters that commit violence like last time.

enraged_camel posted:

And you are presupposing that ignoring them now will lead to cops dying.

Time to admit that you're full of poo poo.

quote:

"I feel sorry for any federal agents that want to come in here and try to push us around or anything like that," he told NBC at the time. "I really don't want violence toward them, but if they're going to come bring violence to us, well, if that's the language they want to speak, we'll learn it."

TheHueManatee posted:

All parties involved in this clusterfuck are idiots.

DeusExMachinima posted:

My local theater is hiring a projectionist, if you're interested.

Aesop Poprock posted:

I agree with this. I just wasn't sure if this was actually happening or not. Like I said, if it isn't it'd be hilarious if their plea for snacks just got ignored, they got colder and hungrier and went home. And then receive a summons in the mail a few days later

the trump tutelage posted:

Someone explain to me how setting a fire on fed land somehow covers up poaching or is somehow less conspicuous than a few blood splatters in the middle of nowhere.

duck monster posted:

I'm kind of OK with federal agents shooting these people. gently caress it, give the martyrs what they want. Everyone wins in this scenario.

Popular Thug Drink posted:

there's no 'let them surrender'. the cops aren't even there. these dudes can just stop protesting. it's not like some hostage situation or anything, the only reason they're still hanging around is because people are still paying attention to them. it is pretty cool i guess that they're driving so many leftists up the wall just by internet begging for doritos so they can cosplay valley forge miles from civilization. but even other militia types are distancing themselves, the longer this goes on the more they look like idiots and probably the worst thing you can do is continue to care or wish violent death on them

Your Dunkle Sans posted:

love pillows

Condiv posted:

again, people said this after bundy ranch. and what's to stop these guys from taking the lack of federal attention to mean they need to do something more violent to get martyred?

Condiv posted:

i'd believe this if this poo poo wasn't being instigated by some of the same people who did the bundy ranch stand-off and walked off with no punishment. a light touch doesn't seem to have diffused this behavior at all, now instead of just actively threatening leos these idiots are occupying a federal building and actively threatening leos

Joementum posted:

Knight posted:

Pocket Constitutions

quote:

Authorities plan to cut off power to militia at occupied Oregon refuge

Armed militants will begin their third day at the wildlife refuge and have vowed to remain for months in protest at over the treatment of two local cattle ranchers

Federal authorities are planning to cut off the power of the wildlife refuge in Oregon that has been taken over by militia, exposing the armed occupiers to sub-zero temperatures in an effort to flush them out.

Armed militants will begin their third day at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a remote federal outpost in eastern Oregon, on Tuesday, and have vowed to remain for months in protest over the treatment of two local cattle ranchers.

A federal government official told the Guardian that authorities were planning on Monday to cut the power at the refuge.

“It’s in the middle of nowhere,” said the official, who is based in Washington, DC, and has knowledge of the planned response to the militia. “And it’s flat-rear end cold up there.”

The official, who asked not to be named, said they were not privy to the FBI’s plan of action. However, they said the US Park Service, which is leading the crisis management reaction to the occupation in liaison with the FBI, planned to cut the power to the building where the militiamen are spending their nights.

Any such move would mark a significant escalation in the crisis. The local sheriff, FBI and other law enforcement officials have so far held back from confronting the militia, who are heavily armed and have lookouts on a watchtower.

The militia have said they do not want a violent confrontation but made clear they are armed and prepared for the arrival of law enforcement officials. However, it appears that federal authorities were planning to use the power cut, and an attempt to starve the militia of supplies, in order to force them out.

“After they shut off the power, they’ll kill the phone service,” the government official added. “Then they’ll block all the roads so that all those guys have a long, lonely winter to think about what they’ve done.”

Snowstorms are expected in the wilderness surrounding the refuge on Tuesday, which is some 30 miles from the town of Burns. At night, temperatures are forecast to plummet to -8C (18F).

The militia, numbering few more than a dozen, have been building fires to stay warm and have been sleeping in the building usually used by the US Fish and Wildlife Service, which runs the refuge for wild birds.

Reached by phone around 10.30pm on Monday, Ammon Bundy, a key member of the the militia, said electricity in the refuge building was still functioning. He added: “We’re ready and waiting if the power should be shut down.”

Bundy has repeatedly said the group is prepared for the long-haul. However during a tour of the site on earlier in the day, the Guardian was shown a food storage room that did not look like it could sustain a dozen men for more than a few weeks.

It included a cardboard box of apples and oranges, a few dozen pots of instant ramen, 24 cans of chicken noodle soup, a similar number of cans of sweetcorn, peas, beans and chili, and 20 boxes of macaroni and cheese.

There were also three sacks of potatoes, one bag of flour, another of rolled oats, boxes of raisins, a single bag of pretzels and one granola bar.

 There were a few cartons of dry goods like canned beans and mac and cheese, a few more sealed boxes, some ramen, and sacks of oatmeal and flour.

Calling themselves Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, the militia appears to be led by Ammon Bundy, who has been joined at the refuge by his two brothers, Mel and Ryan. The trio are sons of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy who was at the heart of a similar standoff with authorities in 2014.

Constitutionalists, militia and rightwing zealots flocked to the Bundy ranch and stayed to defend him from the federal Bureau of Land Management (BLM), which wanted to seize his cows over $1.2m in unpaid fees for grazing on federal land over two decades.

Cliven Bundy has yet to pay those fees, apparently emerging victorious from his head-to-head clash with federal authorities cautious to avoid an armed conflict.

The dispute in Oregon relates to two local ranchers, father and son Dwight and Steven Hammond, who were convicted of arson on federal land (they say they were clearing the land of invasive species to graze their cattle).

The Hammonds surrendered to federal authorities on Monday for the start of an extended prison term.

In an interview on Monday, Cliven Bundy distanced himself from the takeover of the federal parks building spearheaded by his sons.

He said that he was aware of the planned weekend protest in rural Oregon but did not know that the militia planned to splinter away from a peaceful demonstration and forcefully take over the facility.

When asked if he would have condoned the takeover, he laughed.

“I would have questioned them,” he said of his three sons, who are all at the standoff. “What are you doing, taking over property?”

Cliven Bundy, who for years has faced off with the BLM over grazing rights near his ranch in southern Nevada, said he stands behind the spirit of the occupation in Oregon.

“They went up there because we have an abusive federal system that is out of control,” he said. “We’re there in support of ranching families who have been harassed by the federal government for years out here.”

Cliven Bundy said that he is largely in the dark about the circumstances of the ongoing occupation and that he receives a call from one of his sons once a day with word of their well-being. “I have three sons up there,” he said. “I want to know that they’re OK.”

He said his sons researched the dispute involving the Hammonds for months before planning their protest. “We found out they were good people – well-liked in the community,” he said.

Cliven Bundy said that as far as he knew, his sons weren’t armed. He said that if any violence takes place at the standoff, it will come because of an overzealous government reaction.

“This is a peaceful protest,” he said. “It’s our first amendment right to peaceful assembly and protest. And my boys have done that. They haven’t destroyed any property. They have not infringed upon anyone’s rights.”

The Bundy brothers – and Ammon Bundy, in particular – are known to have spent weeks in Burns in the lead-up to the protest in an attempt to drum-up support for a hardline protest, with limited success.

There is little evidence of locals joining their occupation. Instead, they appear to have drawn a motley crowd of rightwingers.

On Monday the Guardian revealed that the militia includes Jon Ritzheimer, a former US marine and notorious anti-Muslim protester who has reportedly been on the radar of the FBI due to his incendiary online provocations. 

Bundy said he did not know how long his sons would remain in the area or how long the standoff would continue. “I want to be there,” he said, adding that he was baffled that the local schools had cancelled classes for the week in light of the armed standoff.

“I’d go visit with the sheriff and the school officials and tell them what’s on my mind. I’d say, ‘Why shut the school down? That’s just fear-mongering.’

“There is no indication that this is anything other than a peaceful protest,” he added.