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I loved the part in A New Hope where Han and Luke dueled Darth Vader at the end while Wedge Antilles slowly imploded the Death Star into an actual star. Also how Luke sought out Yoda because everyone was looking for him, even though he already met him in Mos Eisley halfway through the movie, when he touches Yoda's lightsaber and learns through a vision that Anakin/Darth Vader killed all of Yoda's students and that Luke has the Force. Han's introduction as a scared defector from the Empire was really cool too. That escape scene with Wedge Antilles at the beginning was top notch. I really laughed at that scene where Han is trying to impress Luke by knowing where the Rebel base is and Wedge's droid R2D2 helps him out. Obi Wan being a criminal that transports shoggoths was kind of weird, not really my first choice for a mentor figure, but whatever. Darth Vader sure is a complex character - no one really expected he would be such a dork when he took off the mask. And he's Obi Wan and Mon Mothma's son even! Everyone saw it coming when he killed his father Obi Wan but it still hurt. I wonder what it will look like when the Emperor completes his training. Interesting that they chose to show the Emperor so much in A New Hope. I also wonder if Yoda is Luke's dad. Guess we'll find out in 1980! If the criticism is to be correct, you have to address that this is a remix of the entire original trilogy (and some of the prequels also.) It is "safe" in that it borrows elements from all the Star Wars movies. Soggy Cereal fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 14:06
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Putting a Death Star in the film (the first film in a decade) is most definitely safe, to the extent that it interferes with the actual novel part of the story.
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Jan 5, 2016 14:10
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The Death Star thing only bugs me bcuz I can't think of a reason to have it beyond drawing attention to the weird reboot nature of the thing. I mean, like, we even have a character who immediately brings it up.
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Jan 5, 2016 14:13
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computer parts posted:Putting a Death Star in the film (the first film in a decade) is most definitely safe, to the extent that it interferes with the actual novel part of the story. I realize that to be a True Star Wars Fan you're supposed to hate Return of the Jedi, but Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace both do this.
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Jan 5, 2016 14:14
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Hat Thoughts posted:The Death Star thing only bugs me bcuz I can't think of a reason to have it beyond drawing attention to the weird reboot nature of the thing. I mean, like, we even have a character who immediately brings it up. You expect a nation of space-hitlers to not double down on superweapons even after they dont work multiple times consecutively?
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Jan 5, 2016 14:16
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Soggy Cereal posted:I realize that to be a True Star Wars Fan you're supposed to hate Return of the Jedi, but Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace both do this. What was the Death Star analogue in TPM, or am I misreading your post.
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Jan 5, 2016 14:18
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Soggy Cereal posted:I realize that to be a True Star Wars Fan you're supposed to hate Return of the Jedi, but Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace both do this. How Recently Have You Seen RoTJ?
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Jan 5, 2016 14:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:What was the Death Star analogue in TPM, or am I misreading your post. Battle droid control ship.
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Jan 5, 2016 14:25
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gradenko_2000 posted:What was the Death Star analogue in TPM, or am I misreading your post. It had that big spherical control ship that the hero flew inside to blow up, thus ending the conflict.
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Jan 5, 2016 14:25
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gradenko_2000 posted:What was the Death Star analogue in TPM, or am I misreading your post. In terms of "Big Spaceship We Have to Blow Up" it's the Droid Control Ship. It doesn't blow up planets but it does control the war machine which is helping to slowly strangle Naboo so it's like a very inefficient Death Star.
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Jan 5, 2016 14:26
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Xeremides posted:Which is made more egregious by the fact the X-wings basically went on bombing runs, a Y-wing specialty. Hell, just replace 3 of the X-wings with Y-wings and have everyone else provide cover. They are now XY wings Also this is why they are only piloted by men even now that we've got this spunky female lead that's good at everything
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Jan 5, 2016 14:37
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Slightly Toasted posted:They are now XY wings There is a prominent cute female Asian pilot.
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Jan 5, 2016 14:38
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Did Matt Parkman survive the battle? I can't remember. I want more son of Porkins.
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Jan 5, 2016 14:42
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Soggy Cereal posted:There is a prominent cute female Asian pilot. She is obviously kicking rear end in an x wing they could only smuggle so many parts for the xy's
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Jan 5, 2016 14:52
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Effectronica posted:the same standard that makes Anakin a Christlike figure is the same one that makes every single character in all of fiction a Jesus figure. The virgin birth, you mean?
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Jan 5, 2016 15:39
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Xeremides posted:Honestly, I'd be happy if they threw in literally any other ship. I'm not even sure how much better B-wings are than Y-wings as, according to Wookieepedia, they ended up using upgrading Y-Wings on Endor because of how much B-wings cost, and the structural weaknesses inherent to their design. And somehow, at least one Y-wing pilot was able to down 3 Tie's, despite being the, I guess, Skyraider equivalent in VII. Also, heavy Y-Wing variants exist, and were used by Solo to reclaim Coruscant. I'd really like to have seen some more cruisers and capital ships. All we get is that one Star Destroyer, and unlike ANH we don't have it handwaved that Starkiller's defenses are too strong for larger ships to avoid getting torn apart by. Danger posted:The virgin birth, you mean? Virgin births show up all throughout mythology, though, so I don't think even that's really inherently "Christ-like."
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Jan 5, 2016 15:39
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Slightly Toasted posted:They are now XY wings You don't get to unilaterally decide what gender the catfish person is just because they have a low voice. 
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Jan 5, 2016 15:40
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I finally saw this last night and I'm sure someone brought it up but there's a few scenes where I literally screamed in my head that there should have been TIE Bombers. I felt silly but goddammit Disney.
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Jan 5, 2016 15:41
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The above speech is Anakin's fantasy of being reduced to a pathetic worm, and - this is what's crucial - the dramatic irony is that he will get exactly what he fantasized about. He's unwittingly predicting his transformation into Vader. "I'm in agony. ... I can't breathe. ... I will do anything that you ask." Holy smokes, that's a really good observation. Soggy Cereal posted:I loved the part in A New Hope where Han and Luke dueled Darth Vader at the end while Wedge Antilles slowly imploded the Death Star into an actual star. Also how Luke sought out Yoda because everyone was looking for him, even though he already met him in Mos Eisley halfway through the movie, when he touches Yoda's lightsaber and learns through a vision that Anakin/Darth Vader killed all of Yoda's students and that Luke has the Force. Han's introduction as a scared defector from the Empire was really cool too. That escape scene with Wedge Antilles at the beginning was top notch. I really laughed at that scene where Han is trying to impress Luke by knowing where the Rebel base is and Wedge's droid R2D2 helps him out. Obi Wan being a criminal that transports shoggoths was kind of weird, not really my first choice for a mentor figure, but whatever. Darth Vader sure is a complex character - no one really expected he would be such a dork when he took off the mask. And he's Obi Wan and Mon Mothma's son even! Everyone saw it coming when he killed his father Obi Wan but it still hurt. I wonder what it will look like when the Emperor completes his training. Interesting that they chose to show the Emperor so much in A New Hope. I also wonder if Yoda is Luke's dad. Guess we'll find out in 1980! I keep seeing stuff like this on my Facebook timeline. Does nobody understand the difference between a "remake" and a "shot for shot remake"? Is The Thing (2011) not a remake of The Thing (1982) since I can craft a paragraph showing all the differences? Like I don't think "remake" is accurate nor do I think "remake" is an automatic insult (any more than correctly calling it a "sequel" would be to the people who hate sequels, remakes and reboots), but this kind of counter argument is just super easy to dismiss.
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Jan 5, 2016 15:48
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Xeremides posted:Honestly, I'd be happy if they threw in literally any other ship. I'm not even sure how much better B-wings are than Y-wings as, according to Wookieepedia, they ended up using upgrading Y-Wings on Endor because of how much B-wings cost, and the structural weaknesses inherent to their design. And somehow, at least one Y-wing pilot was able to down 3 Tie's, despite being the, I guess, Skyraider equivalent in VII. Also, heavy Y-Wing variants exist, and were used by Solo to reclaim Coruscant. I just kind of assumed that they only had X-Wings because they were a lovely band of rebels with very minimal political and financial backing. Like, at some point a dude on the comms says that half the fleet is down, and we see who's left, and it's six ships. It was supposed to come off as an attack of desperation, not a coordinated military assault like RoTJ. Hell, even in ANH they had more time to prep, more resources, whatever. They knew the Death Star was en route. They were ready to mount a counter attack. In TFA, it's literally, "Holy poo poo, they hosed up the Republic! We're next! We've gotta shoot lasers at it!"
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Jan 5, 2016 15:58
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Dimo ArKacho posted:I just kind of assumed that they only had X-Wings because they were a lovely band of rebels with very minimal political and financial backing. Like, at some point a dude on the comms says that half the fleet is down, and we see who's left, and it's six ships. It was supposed to come off as an attack of desperation, not a coordinated military assault like RoTJ. Hell, even in ANH they had more time to prep, more resources, whatever. They knew the Death Star was en route. They were ready to mount a counter attack. In TFA, it's literally, "Holy poo poo, they hosed up the Republic! We're next! We've gotta shoot lasers at it!" People also ignore that like, even if they had more backing from the Republic, guess who just had their 5-planet system blown up? It's likely at least a portion of their fleet was on one or more of those 5 planets.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:05
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Well, Hux did say they were going to destroy the Republic Fleet as well, so they probably did wipe it out. But you'd think the Resistance would have some ships besides two or three X-Wing squadrons and that transport Leia arrives on Takodana in.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:12
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Guy A. Person posted:Holy smokes, that's a really good observation. I'm talking about when remake is used as an automatic insult. I liked when someone called it "Star Wars Greatest Hits" because that's much more accurate. I guess it bothers me because it's so easy nowadays to tear down other people for having fun with something, like "wake up sheeple, you just watched a Star Wars movie that consciously emulated Star Wars." It also disregards all the new things to enjoy and talk about, primarily the new characters.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:12
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It is "Star Wars Greatest Hits," an album that deletes some of its own tracks after you listen to it once. The twin destruction of both the Republic's and the First Order's planetary hearts gives them license to say that many things they might not want to bother with are gone. If they never want to bother with 527 different kinds of legacy TIE fighter or B-Wings or whatever, they can just say they all were destroyed.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:20
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Soggy Cereal posted:I'm talking about when remake is used as an automatic insult. I liked when someone called it "Star Wars Greatest Hits" because that's much more accurate. I guess it bothers me because it's so easy nowadays to tear down other people for having fun with something, like "wake up sheeple, you just watched a Star Wars movie that consciously emulated Star Wars." It also disregards all the new things to enjoy and talk about, primarily the new characters. Oh then I totally agree with that. I think it's hilarious there are people tossing out "remake" as an insult as if "Star Wars Film #7" is inherently any better. The type of people who usually bash "remakes, reboots, and sequels" wouldn't be really impressed no matter how unique your seventh film in the franchise is. Then again, those people are idiots since remakes are awesome; Thing 2011 (also Thing 1982) for lyfe.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:23
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homullus posted:It is "Star Wars Greatest Hits," an album that deletes some of its own tracks after you listen to it once. The twin destruction of both the Republic's and the First Order's planetary hearts gives them license to say that many things they might not want to bother with are gone. If they never want to bother with 527 different kinds of legacy TIE fighter or B-Wings or whatever, they can just say they all were destroyed. This, to me, is the biggest problem with what they're doing. I enjoyed the movie, but I really hope that they didn't kill off all the new Jedi, destroyed the Senate and Fleet, and had Luke go into hiding purely so they can make everything "new" again. I'd me much more interested in seeing a Republic in turmoil, but still an existing entity in need of leadership from people like Leia, and for Luke to get a second chance at training a new class of Jedi, rather than turning Luke and Leia into glorified extras and totally resetting what happened in the original trilogy so Luke can play at Yoda and Leia at Mon Mothma/General Dodonna while Rey, Poe, and Finn redo the journey of the original trilogy entirely. I was fine with how Han was utilized, but I don't think that's how every old character's journey should play out. The events of the original movies should play more of a role than material to remix into new scenes, and Luke and Leia should be able to keep the promise laid out by the originals instead of being totally replaced by the new cast.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:33
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Beeez posted:This, to me, is the biggest problem with what they're doing. I enjoyed the movie, but I really hope that they didn't kill off all the new Jedi, destroyed the Senate and Fleet, and had Luke go into hiding purely so they can make everything "new" again. I'd me much more interested in seeing a Republic in turmoil, but still an existing entity in need of leadership from people like Leia, and for Luke to get a second chance at training a new class of Jedi, rather than turning Luke and Leia into glorified extras and totally resetting what happened in the original trilogy so Luke can play at Yoda and Leia at Mon Mothma/General Dodonna while Rey, Poe, and Finn redo the journey of the original trilogy entirely. I was fine with how Han was utilized, but I don't think that's how every old character's journey should play out. The events of the original movies should play more of a role than material to remix into new scenes, and Luke and Leia should be able to keep the promise laid out by the originals instead of being totally replaced by the new cast. Luckily for you with the new canon rules there will be plenty of in-between movies, games, comics and books. I know that sounds cynical but Disney bought Star Wars to make money and I have absolutely no doubt about them suqeezing that 30-year time frame for every dollar it's worth.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:36
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Just to be certain (and with no knowledge of the EU), after RoTJ the Empire retreated, the Republic was restored, and I'm assuming the First Order was established from remnants of the Empire. Is the Resistance an armed rebellion from within First Order controlled territory that gets assistance from the Republic? And were the Republic and the First Order at war when the movie started? Or was it kind of like a Cold War until the StarKiller went online? I don't miss the parliamentary drama from the Phantom Menace, but having both a Republic and a Resistance is a little confusing.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:45
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Chewbacca should start getting smaller each movie and remain in the series in perpetuity, and by episode 18 released in 2035, he's basically a dwarf, and he starts losing his hair, and starts speaking common but in a weird dialect. And it turns out Wookies turn into Yodas when they get old.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:50
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As I understand it, the New Republic and the Empire fought themselves to a standstill at the Battle of Jakku, at which point they signed a peace treaty because the New Republic didn't want to bear the cost of fighting Imperial remnant (my own turn of phrase). The Resistance is basically a paramilitary organization that spies on and keeps an eye on ... I'm not sure if they were formed to monitor the Empire or as a response to the First Order. But in any case they're a small shoestring operation because officially the New Republic has supposedly stood down most of its military since it's no longer at war with the Empire.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:52
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Beeez posted:Well, Hux did say they were going to destroy the Republic Fleet as well, so they probably did wipe it out. But you'd think the Resistance would have some ships besides two or three X-Wing squadrons and that transport Leia arrives on Takodana in. They did. C3PO says "Without the Republic Fleet, we're doomed" when they learn Starkiller is targeting them next. All they got are crappy x-wings.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:52
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I hope they subtitle Episode 8 Return of the Jedi 2: Skywalker Boogaloo
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Jan 5, 2016 17:00
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This article might be interesting for some people, Cnut and SMG in particular might like it.Waffles Inc. posted:Luckily for you with the new canon rules there will be plenty of in-between movies, games, comics and books. Yeah, but the stuff they've come out with so far is scarcely better than the old EU, from what I've seen of it. And I guess this may make me an irrational fan in some people's eyes, but I think these iconic, nearly forty-year-old characters deserve respect in the official film continuation of the originals. With Obi-Wan, Mon Mothma, and Yoda it was one thing, because those characters may have been former leaders of the old Republic but we knew them in the original trilogy's context first. But Luke and Leia are too indelibly the protagonists of Star Wars to have them totally shunted aside to make way for new blood. I'm not saying those characters should never face any challenges after RotJ, but there's a difference between facing challenges and setbacks, and totally trampling on what they developed into and fought for in the originals. The way things are "like poetry, they rhyme" only works if there are distinct differences between those two "lines". RotJ and RotS "rhyme" in many ways, but only to highlight the differences in a more pronounced way. If Luke had turned to the Dark Side and killed Vader at the end of RotJ, then RotS showing his father doing exactly the same thing to Dooku would hold no "rhyming" potency. Turning Luke into an Obi-Wan/Yoda mishmash, a failed Jedi whose student ruined everything and has given up on doing much of anything, lays waste to the concept of Luke learning from his forebears mistakes and being the first of a revamped, healthier Jedi Order. Similarly, if the New Republic has been totally destroyed(because we admittedly don't know for sure just how much it's been rendered moot by this movie) after being corrupt in precisely the same ways as the old one, then it renders much of the conflict of the original trilogy, and the large amount of setting up why the Republic failed in the prequels, virtually meaningless. Just a footnote that we can think about, briefly, when Finn's daughter watches the New New Republic get destroyed by a weapon that can take out 5 solar systems in Episode X. The cyclical nature of Star Wars only works because of the differences, and I think the next two movies have to introduce more divergences between Yoda/Obi-Wan, Mon Mothma/General Dodonna, the old Jedi Order, and the Old Republic, and Luke, Leia, the new Jedi Order, and the New Republic. If Luke and Leia are going to make mistakes, let the mistakes at least be new and not have everything these characters went through in the older movies be for naught.
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Jan 5, 2016 17:09
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turtlecrunch posted:They did. C3PO says "Without the Republic Fleet, we're doomed" when they learn Starkiller is targeting them next. All they got are crappy x-wings. At this point, all 3 groups are gone: Republic (fleet and senate), Resistance (only half a dozen xwings left) and First Order (super giant death star turned binary system).
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Jan 5, 2016 17:09
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turtlecrunch posted:They did. C3PO says "Without the Republic Fleet, we're doomed" when they learn Starkiller is targeting them next. All they got are crappy x-wings. Those are top of the line X-Wings, though. You'd think, if the Republic were just giving the Resistance token support, they'd have given them older generation fighters and bombers, not T-70s. I think the fact that they were, at worst, equal in capability to the Tie's, with the X-wings outclassing them despite being heavily outnumbered, is a testament to their quality, both technologically and in terms of pilots.
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Jan 5, 2016 17:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:As I understand it, the New Republic and the Empire fought themselves to a standstill at the Battle of Jakku, at which point they signed a peace treaty because the New Republic didn't want to bear the cost of fighting Imperial remnant (my own turn of phrase). The Empire brought about the treaty I believe. They lost the battle. That's why there's a massive Star Destroyer crashed on Jakku. The treaty was that they could remain in existence and be left alone so long as they stayed within certain boundaries. I believe the New Republic was operating in a very naive manner thinking the issues were squashed whereas the Resistance is made up of cynics who believed it was only a matter of time before something happened again, so they wanted to be prepared to fight. The section about Poe in the Before The Awakening book doesn't provide the Jakku information but does provide good backstory on the New Republic vs. Resistance stuff.
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Jan 5, 2016 17:19
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Did the movie explain whether the StarKiller base was mobile or not? I was under the impression it could only fire for as many suns in its proximity (so you'd build it in a binary system at least) and that the beam did some kind of hyperspace travel to reach far away planets. That seems like a lot of work for two shots, but had the second volley worked they wouldn't have needed anymore ammo. The Star Wars wiki page says it was mobile, but how do you move a moon. Solfrann posted:At this point, all 3 groups are gone: Republic (fleet and senate), Resistance (only half a dozen xwings left) and First Order (super giant death star turned binary system). Yeah, but the First Order still has some kickass Star Destroyers. If the Republic got Pearl Harbored with their fleet at port, then the First Order has an overwhelming advantage now.
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Jan 5, 2016 17:19
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Krispy Kareem posted:Did the movie explain whether the StarKiller base was mobile or not? I was under the impression it could only fire for as many suns in its proximity (so you'd build it in a binary system at least) and that the beam did some kind of hyperspace travel to reach far away planets. That seems like a lot of work for two shots, but had the second volley worked they wouldn't have needed anymore ammo. With the force, obviously. I love the big ships in star wars. There weren't enough of them in this movie. I would hope both sides have leftovers scattered throughout, and the whole galaxy erupts in fights over shipbuilding and poo poo. But none of that matters because a helicopter found luke in Ireland.
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Jan 5, 2016 17:24
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Krispy Kareem posted:Did the movie explain whether the StarKiller base was mobile or not? I was under the impression it could only fire for as many suns in its proximity (so you'd build it in a binary system at least) and that the beam did some kind of hyperspace travel to reach far away planets. That seems like a lot of work for two shots, but had the second volley worked they wouldn't have needed anymore ammo. I don't remember where I read this, and it might be wrong, but I was under the impression that the planet had a giant jump drive. So...yeah. That'd be pretty dumb so I hope it's wrong. I think the only real proof that it moves is via a tweet from Pablo Hidalgo: 
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Jan 5, 2016 17:34
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Xeremides posted:Those are top of the line X-Wings, though. I only meant "crappy" because their fleet no longer has any diversity besides x-wings and flying Subway lunchboxes.
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Jan 5, 2016 17:43
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