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This is going to be a long post so apologies for the ranting. I've been an STL Rams fan since they moved here 20 years ago and as such have been engrossed in the relocation saga. Due to how pathetic the team has been during the last decade, it's been more "interesting" watching this play out than the team on the field. Given how much everyone here in STL already hates Stan, it's sort of amazing how that released document takes it to another level.Not even when Harry Ornest tried to move the Blues to Saskatoon (that was more sadness because the Arena really was a complete dump) or when Bidwell took the Cards to the desert (some anger yes, but a whole lot of public indifference) was there anywhere near the public sentiment there is towards Kroenke right now. He is literal Sports Hitler in STL this morning. Even people that have no interest in professional sports are angry for a variety of reasons because of the stunt taking place by the Rams/NFL. The attendance waning thing is the biggest loving joke of a statement I've ever seen regarding pro sports. The Rams have been horrendous the last 12 years, including what is/was (haven't checked today) the worst 5 year stretch in the history of the NFL. I believe the first time they didn't have a sellout was 08, which was during this stretch. Everyone has also known for several years what Stan's grand plan was. It's amazing that the last few years have been as well attended as they have, especially this year. So yeah, that report is complete horseshit given the context. All of the teams Stan currently owns are all in the bottom segment of their given league for attendance. Hmm, must just be a coincidence. He claims STL cannot support 3 pro sports franchises. Yes, that is really an NFL owner pleading publicly that he cannot compete with an NHL team. I love the Blues, but give me a loving break. Ignoring that, in the early 2000's when the Rams, Blues, and Cards were good everything was sold out. The positive I take from this document is that Kroenke has now finally taken all the speculation away and shown himself publicly to be on the same level as a movie villian (like in Major League), where I think it really hurts his case because of how bad the NFL is going to look when/if he hauls the Rams to LA. The most likely scenario is that Stan is going to be blocked. I really hope this happens not because I'm a Rams fan, but because I want to see what this worm does when confronted with that. gently caress the NFL.
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Jan 6, 2016 16:10
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I recently got into a discussion with an Angelino about the Chargers moving to LA. The thing that pissed me off the most about this conversation was this quote: "San Diego clearly doesn't want the Chargers, if they did, they would have paid up years ago. The city should have just given them what they want if they love the Chargers so much." Since when is being a fan of a team also the same thing as being willing to pay massive taxes to keep said team? This pisses me off the most about the whole situation. The City of San Diego can't even elect officials who don't end up in jail, much less fix simple potholes and provide basic services. If I'm a taxpayer in SD, OF COURSE I want to keep the team, they're my hometown team and I will root for them provided they're in SD. But just because I love the Chargers doesn't mean I'll also direct scarce public resources to subsidize them. I have a feeling that if somehow this ends up going to a vote here, people will shoot it down. And frankly they should, but it won't be because we don't "want the Chargers", it'll be because the NFL is run by a bunch of greedy fuckers and we've had enough. And that's the distinction a lot of people are missing here.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:04
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Blitz7x posted:Paul Allen I think By about 10 billion, There are a bunch of 5 billion guys including Kroenke, but if you count his wives Walmart money I am not sure if he tops Allen or not. Either way cites should just say don't let the door hit you in the rear end on the way out.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:13
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I'm surprised they would even consider building a stadium in Inglewood when, as I am told, it is always up to no good.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:41
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It is a cold comfort to have sport owners revealed as soulless villains looking for the best payout. Its been less than a decade since the SuperSonics' move to OKC and its already decided by every other sports fan that the cause was something to do with the city. The team(s) moving will be a blow to their original fanbase(s), but you really should find happiness that you won't be on the hook for another stadium payout and that some other group of suckers is. There is really no economic counter-reason to move a sports team if the owner has already decided and starts working toward it. Any budget issues are solved by a few cheap suite passes and donations to the involved civic leaders of the city you already want to go to.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:41
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Eltoasto posted:I'm surprised they would even consider building a stadium in Inglewood when, as I am told, it is always up to no good. I see you too have consulted Mr Shakur and the esteemed Dr Dre, MD. I can't imagine land prices in Compton or Watts are too high if they need an alternate site.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:48
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Here's the Rams full relocation proposal. http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2016-01/23763808665200-05180540.pdf
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Jan 6, 2016 18:10
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ColonelJohnMatrix posted:
RIGHT?! I brought this up when I was talking to my friends about this and Kroenke is complaining about somehow losing out to what it easily at best the 4th most popular sports in America, at a time when the Blues are one of the best teams in the NHL. gently caress outta here with that reasoning.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:14
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Gerund posted:It is a cold comfort to have sport owners revealed as soulless villains looking for the best payout. Its been less than a decade since the SuperSonics' move to OKC and its already decided by every other sports fan that the cause was something to do with the city. Out of curiosity do you happen to know how much okc paid to get the sonics to move here?
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Jan 6, 2016 18:22
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Norm Green is one of the greediest scumbag owners on earth. Look him up
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Jan 6, 2016 18:25
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Stan Kroenke owns.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:27
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Beller posted:Stan Kroenke owns. He owns land. Lots of it. Around STL in fact. His Kroenke group is developing everything it seems. Strange since he is also claiming STL is a barren waste land. Some of the "surveys" that Kroenke has sited are now coming to light and it's loving hilarious. There are freaking TWITTER POLLS by random people being used as credible research. What a joke. Enough ranting about Kroenke though, now let's talk about the STL Riverfront stadium group. Part of it is admirable...if it also wasn't so disgusting. The whole stadium plan they've put together would most likely never get built whether the Rams stay or not, including if Kroenke sold the team. They have circumvented a whole lot of public process to frantically chase the NFL and get this proposal in under the NFL's deadlines. Other politicians are rightfully starting to raise hell that this kind of thing can't happen without a real vote, which is definitely right. I think the stadium plan would just end in litigation eventually, at least if a proper vote is not taken. Not definitely I suppose, but probably. While circumventing public process to try and line a greedy billionaire's pockets (who doesn't even want to be there) is deplorable, again I'm glad it happened for this reason - it somehow actually happened and now has the NFL's dick in a vise. You can tell how bad the NFL wanted the stadium initiative to fail by trying to sabotage it twice, before the initial alderman discussion (when Grubman called the Bernie Miklasz show the day before and they had a huge fight when the NFL accused the St. Louis of having no shot, stadium or not) and then again the next week when Goodell issued a memo the day before the real vote saying that the NFL money wouldn't necessarily be as high as originally promised. Despite this attempt to hurt it, it still passed and bam, now the city of St. Louis is offering to build an unprecedented 2nd NFL stadium in 25 years. Again, I do not agree that it's a good idea to chase the NFL. I'm just glad that somehow STL has pulled it off just to see these rich fucks be put in a bad situation and to see how it plays out in public. The stadium will never get built, but the "threat" of it now will make the NFL look very bad if they leave by turning down all that public money. Hopefully if nothing else just maybe....MAYBE this will hurt their leverage to extort other cities. I love the Rams. 99-2001 was something I'm happy to of gone through. The atmosphere at the dome was incredible when the Greatest Show was eviscerating people. I'm glad I have those memories. What has gone on during this stadium situation though is really awful. I'm just happy that it's now getting to play out in a public eye with all the cards really on the table. Again, gently caress the NFL. ColonelJohnMatrix fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 18:53
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Tank44 posted:Here's the Rams full relocation proposal. I'm the NFL themed hotel
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Jan 6, 2016 18:53
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Maybe St Louis can ask for the Cardinals back if they're butt hurt about their team being stolen back.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:15
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Top Hats Monthly posted:Norm Green is one of the greediest scumbag owners on earth. Look him up gently caress Norm Green forever
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Jan 6, 2016 19:18
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ColonelJohnMatrix posted:He owns land. Lots of it. Around STL in fact. His Kroenke group is developing everything it seems. Strange since he is also claiming STL is a barren waste land. Cleveland's Stadium initiative passed and the team moved anyway. This isn't unprecedented.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:45
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Metapod posted:Out of curiosity do you happen to know how much okc paid to get the sonics to move here? A minimum of a nine digit outlay unless you want to dicker over opportunity costs and time frames. Arena construction plus a $121mil renovation that I have in front of me after two minutes of Google.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:50
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Bip Roberts posted:Maybe St Louis can ask for the Cardinals back if they're butt hurt about their team being stolen back. I think Chicago might ask for them back then, there are probably enough people sick of the Bears for two teams again.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:55
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Flikken posted:Cleveland's Stadium initiative passed and the team moved anyway. This isn't unprecedented. That isn't what I meant. I meant a city building two publicly funded stadiums within 25 years is....all the while being accused of not being able to support a team. Cleveland's original stadium was built in the 30's (and actually housed the Rams!). ColonelJohnMatrix fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 19:55
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Ahahahaha looks like the city and the stadium board should have gotten a first tier team guarantee or tied the stadium quality to team quality. Looks like a slam dunk to me for the LA Rams to be back. No city should agree to build a stadium without the option to buy the team at a fixed price.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:01
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Elephanthead posted:Ahahahaha looks like the city and the stadium board should have gotten a first tier team guarantee or tied the stadium quality to team quality. Looks like a slam dunk to me for the LA Rams to be back. No city should agree to build a stadium without the option to buy the team at a fixed price. Not to be contrarian, but it looks like St. Louis has bent over backwards and the owner is being a tremendous dick. I think the optics of moving the Rams are very bad given what we know and how far they would be moving. It will make other cities think twice about dealing with the NFL. The tone of the report went beyond advocacy as well: it was vindictive and shat on the city. Perhaps that is the plan then: field garbage teams and irrevocably damage local relations so that you are run out of town.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:18
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Yudo posted:It will make other cities think twice about dealing with the NFL. This seems unlikely.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:32
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tk posted:This seems unlikely. There is a sucker born every minute, sure. That said, there is rather widespread consensus that the economic benefits of building stadiums are nowhere near as advertised and many a city government is broke. Unless your governor is named Scott Walker, stadium proposals will face skepticism. In the DC area, for example, no one is exactly rolling out the red carpet for Snyder to replace noted poo poo hole and forever mistake FedEx Field, and this is a popular, historic team in a fabulously wealthy region.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:44
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Yudo posted:There is a sucker born every minute, sure. That said, there is rather widespread consensus that the economic benefits of building stadiums are nowhere near as advertised and many a city government is broke. Unless your governor is named Scott Walker, stadium proposals will face skepticism. In the DC area, for example, no one is exactly rolling out the red carpet for Snyder to replace noted poo poo hole and forever mistake FedEx Field, and this is a popular, historic team in a fabulously wealthy region. They will the second he floats the idea of moving
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Jan 6, 2016 21:49
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zen death robot posted:It's kind of interesting that Kroenke went so far as to say that nearly every city in the US is better suited for an NFL team than St Louis. I don't know if that'll effect the eventual vote at all but that's a hell of a thing to essentially pitch to that a city is poisonous to the league. he's a dickhead
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Jan 6, 2016 22:01
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zen death robot posted:It's kind of interesting that Kroenke went so far as to say that nearly every city in the US is better suited for an NFL team than St Louis. I don't know if that'll effect the eventual vote at all but that's a hell of a thing to essentially pitch to that a city is poisonous to the league. He doesn't give a poo poo. At least now he's admitting it
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Jan 6, 2016 22:04
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It will probably wing up with the Rams & Chargers sharing a stadium in LA and the Raiders moving in with the 49ers to make things easiest. But nothing is easy so one of these teams will be displaced after all this information is leaked out. San Antonio is another option; London, Toronto or mexico City for international ones. For other US cities: Orlando has stadium but a 4th FL team is highly unlikely. Oklahoma could probably work but not really seeing any other viable markets aside from the 3 cities potentially losing their teams.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:09
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There is a zero percent chance that the Raiders and 49ers share a stadium
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Jan 6, 2016 22:11
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Tank44 posted:It will probably wing up with the Rams & Chargers sharing a stadium in LA and the Raiders moving in with the 49ers to make things easiest. But nothing is easy so one of these teams will be displaced after all this information is leaked out. San Antonio is another option; London, Toronto or mexico City for international ones. For other US cities: Orlando has stadium but a 4th FL team is highly unlikely. Oklahoma could probably work but not really seeing any other viable markets aside from the 3 cities potentially losing their teams. A London team is never going to happen. The NFL knows it'd be an abject failure. We sell out 3 games a year in London because it's still a novelty. 3 or 4 years of a 5-11 team, absolutely no-one is going to give a gently caress. Plus, the players would hate making transatlantic flights for every single away game.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:13
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I think the only way to schedule a London team would be to play 8 straight home games then 8 straight away games, but that's really weird and probably would have drawbacks.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:22
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Volkerball posted:I think the only way to schedule a London team would be to play 8 straight home games then 8 straight away games, but that's really weird and probably would have drawbacks. Even if the regular season scheduling could be worked out, there would potentially be some pretty wild playoff travel schedules should they make it. Of course, if Stan gets blocked from moving to LA perhaps London would be a great solution for everyone. If the league could just figure out the logistics of the regular season they'd be ok as they'd never have to worry about a Kroenke owned team making the playoffs.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:30
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Ross Angeles posted:They will the second he floats the idea of moving Well, no, they won't (note that the team plays in bumblefuck Maryland because DC would not finance RFK's replacement). This isn't Jacksonville or St. Louis: it's one of America's wealthiest regions and largest TV markets with a loyal fan base that spends despite a poo poo product. There are so many transplants here that you can sell out just via the opposing team's fans. If Snyder wants to trade Northern Virginia, DC and Southern Maryland for Oklahoma be my/our guest; we'll get another team in days with ideally a more gracious owner.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:33
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zen death robot posted:It's kind of interesting that Kroenke went so far as to say that nearly every city in the US is better suited for an NFL team than St Louis. I don't know if that'll effect the eventual vote at all but that's a hell of a thing to essentially pitch to that a city is poisonous to the league. Call his bluff and move the Rams to Little Rock.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:50
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Yudo posted:There is a sucker born every minute, sure. That said, there is rather widespread consensus that the economic benefits of building stadiums are nowhere near as advertised and many a city government is broke. The problem with this theory is most city councils/governors don't actually care about whether they're being financially responsible. It's not their money, after all.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:56
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Nail Rat posted:The problem with this theory is most city councils/governors don't actually care about whether they're being financially responsible. It's not their money, after all. Even beyond that though, there's a social benefit to sports programs that isn't directly represented in financial numbers.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:58
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computer parts posted:Even beyond that though, there's a social benefit to sports programs that isn't directly represented in financial numbers. No mental health benefits though.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:05
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Nail Rat posted:The problem with this theory is most city councils/governors don't actually care about whether they're being financially responsible. It's not their money, after all. Walker did the Bucks owners a solid by helping to shift $250 million cut from the Wisconsin University system to fund the new arena. Otherwise, a number of these cities have to issue bonds that investors are often reluctant to buy and governors can try to nix (no one wants a Detroit style bankruptcy in their state). A governor issuing that kind of debt has to face the state legislature. These are huge sums of money that are beyond the rubber stamp of a city council, mayor or even a governor. computer parts posted:Even beyond that though, there's a social benefit to sports programs that isn't directly represented in financial numbers. Like what that would be better than spending those hundreds of millions on social programs and redevelopment?
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Jan 6, 2016 23:08
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Yudo posted:Walker did the Bucks owners a solid by helping to shift $250 million cut from the Wisconsin University system to fund the new arena. Empty quoting to let this sink in. Public financing of professional sports facilities literally takes money out of education. I love my Raiders, but gently caress no should any more public money go to that team. You guys are rich. Figure that poo poo out. Bootstraps, son!
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Jan 6, 2016 23:56
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Yudo posted:
Probably not, but the choice probably isn't between that, it's between building a stadium and building gentrified property development that kicks all the poor people out anyway.
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Jan 7, 2016 00:07
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Rams proposal also includes idea of stadium & surrounding area hosting NFL Network, Pro Bowl, and Combine. LA Times Article about it too.
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Jan 7, 2016 00:22
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