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ChlamydiaJones posted:I'm hoping to understand this; "I have devised a magic spell to end the government."
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Jan 6, 2016 17:15
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ChlamydiaJones posted:I'm hoping to understand this; the united states government is actually an illegal corporation headed by foreign powers, which means that you can sue them in criminal court after they illegally create joinder with you and violate your rights it's just sovcit nonsense
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Jan 6, 2016 17:17
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lawyers are powerful wizards who can alter reality with their filings, if we study the constitution we can steal their powers
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Jan 6, 2016 17:17
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This is actually an interesting bind. So on the one side, direct confrontation and siege invokes the Waco "Wounded Knee" legend and confirms their worldview that they're freedom fighters facing brutal tyranny, but on the other side, not confronting them affirms their belief in sovereign citizen word magic and reading the Constitution out loud is the one weird trick to breaking any laws you want (the Feds hate him!).
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Jan 6, 2016 17:25
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Hopefully nature will solve this for you guys by opening the earth below the building or cutting power thanks to a massive ice storm/blizzard. Nothing says justice like a plague of locusts.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:35
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Furnaceface posted:Hopefully nature will solve this for you guys by opening the earth below the building or cutting power thanks to a massive ice storm/blizzard. Nothing says justice like a plague of locusts. If a Biblical-seeming disaster goes against them, that just means the government has figured out how to control the weather.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:38
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Furnaceface posted:Nothing says justice like a plague of locusts. That's kind of what these people already are, though.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:38
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Popular Thug Drink posted:we shouldn't take any course of action that treats the occupiers as anything other than a sad joke They're not a sad joke anymore though. They started that way, when they shivered their asses off the first few nights. Now they've had time to actually stock up with food and fuel (in part thanks to local sympathizers), odd jobs from around and beyond the state are free to trickle in, and both the work and school schedules of the people who actually live in that area remain disrupted. They're a public nuisance, not a joke, and the longer they're left to their own devices, the more media attention they receive and the more hesitant federal officers seem to actually do something about them, the more full of themselves and their cause they'll be come. Once they're sufficiently high on their own self-righteousness they could graduate to become a public safety risk in that county. What's more important, in the national sense, is the message the standoff says to others who share the militiamen's ideals but have yet to act on them. Upthread someone who claimed to work as a ranger on federal lands out west talked about how the risk their colleagues see in this unfolding situation lies in antigovernment folk taking the feds' and local law enforcement's hesitance as a message that if they stand up for their rights with guns in hand (against, say the nosy park ranger coming by to check your fishing license out on the trails), that the government will back down. If the feds continue to mishandle this situation like they did the Bundy Ranch standoff, it sends the message that the authorities are indeed afraid to tackle right-wing militia groups when they decide owning guns puts them outside the rule of law.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:39
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ChlamydiaJones posted:I'm hoping to understand this; Don't bother, it is crazy-person legalese and a favorite "one weird trick to get you out of jail" B.S. favored by sov cits. Next step will be filing liens on the sheriff, BLM employees, and other people they don't like. That usually ends in federal prison, though.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:56
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zeal posted:They're not a sad joke anymore though. They started that way, when they shivered their asses off the first few nights. Now they've had time to actually stock up with food and fuel (in part thanks to local sympathizers), odd jobs from around and beyond the state are free to trickle in, and both the work and school schedules of the people who actually live in that area remain disrupted. They're a public nuisance, not a joke, and the longer they're left to their own devices, the more media attention they receive and the more hesitant federal officers seem to actually do something about them, the more full of themselves and their cause they'll be come. Once they're sufficiently high on their own self-righteousness they could graduate to become a public safety risk in that county. What's more important, in the national sense, is the message the standoff says to others who share the militiamen's ideals but have yet to act on them. Upthread someone who claimed to work as a ranger on federal lands out west talked about how the risk their colleagues see in this unfolding situation lies in antigovernment folk taking the feds' and local law enforcement's hesitance as a message that if they stand up for their rights with guns in hand (against, say the nosy park ranger coming by to check your fishing license out on the trails), that the government will back down. If the feds continue to mishandle this situation like they did the Bundy Ranch standoff, it sends the message that the authorities are indeed afraid to tackle right-wing militia groups when they decide owning guns puts them outside the rule of law. This is the inevitable result. Worse, I worry that it will inspire idealistic collegiate leftists to arm themselves for their next protest, thinking that the government/police won't just gun them all down. Spoiler alert; we've seen how that movie ends.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:56
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zeal posted:I sort of get why the locals or the feds decided not to post people on the roads into the refuge, but surely they could've guessed that leaving the militiamen free to move as they please means they'll bring in more people and supplies I doubt they care. Food's unlikely to be the limiting factor here. If you dropped everything in your life and flew out to another state to camp out in the woods on short notice, how long do you think you could stick around there before you started paying massive costs in your personal life? These guys aren't cultists holed up in their own compound, they're regular workers, business owners, and retired guys who ditched their jobs and families to go play militiaman out in the woods. Even if they have plenty of food, only a few of them can count on still having a home to go back to if they keep this camping trip going for more than a couple of months. These guys all going home on their own because they ran out of vacation days or left their cattle unsupervised too long is the perfect end to this whole pathetic affair - and will just go to show that most of these guys were just bluffing and weren't really even prepared to sacrifice their jobs or homes for the cause, let alone their lives.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:56
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Al! posted:They have tv water and Internet they read the same story and are now putting on a show of how prepared they are Yeah, I'm wondering if this is all just an act as a response to the near universal backlash they've gotten. Have there been any reputable reports other than the single guardian article?
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Jan 6, 2016 18:05
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it's awesome how we're reduced to hoping god or nature somehow takes care of these guys instead of the people whose job it is to enforce the law am i correct in hearing that they haven't even managed to blockade roads into the place so the militia fuckers can resupply at will? and that they don't know if they can shut off power and water to the place?
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Jan 6, 2016 18:08
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Condiv posted:it's awesome how we're reduced to hoping god or nature somehow takes care of these guys instead of the people whose job it is to enforce the law they can shut off power, which is easy to replace. they can't shut off the water, it's an onsite well it's odd to me that you folks who think these dudes are an actual threat can't recognize that their protest is likely to crumble due to its own incompetence. a total victory for the feds would be if their ranks dwindle due to protesters recognizing the pointlessness of their actions and just getting bored or needing to take care of poo poo at home. it would just demonstrate that these guys aren't even protesters, just a bunch of riled up rednecks with a burning desire to embarass themselves on the public stage i mean if you really feel this strongly about it, go counterprotest. nobody's stopping you, and you'll be achieving just as much as the protesters are
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Jan 6, 2016 18:12
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Popular Thug Drink posted:they can shut off power, which is easy to replace. they can't shut off the water, it's an onsite well If they shut off the power, they'll also shut off power to several nearby ranches that didn't ask for that. In order to shut down just the compound, they'd have to go onto the site and cut wires.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:16
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Condiv posted:am i correct in hearing that they haven't even managed to blockade roads into the place so the militia fuckers can resupply at will? and that they don't know if they can shut off power and water to the place? The roads not getting blocked is kinda ridiculous, although maybe law enforcement doesn't want to risk an escalation due to blockade runners just yet. Cutting power may actually be tricky to do safely since it's remote and apparently other ranches and property are fed from the same transmission lines. In order to stop the power flow easily without leaving the locals in the dark, they'd have to have access to the hookup at the refuge. The other option would be to get temporary generators for the affected properties while they work on the line to reroute it. Regardless, it's all very expensive and tricky. You don't just get a ladder and a pair of bolt cutter and snip the lines. Someone is weighing the cost of actually shutting down the power versus the gain, especially if they have generators and fuel anyway. Water may be impossible to cut off as it's 99% likely the refuge is well supplied. As long as they can power the pumps, they can keep water flowing.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:17
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it is absolutely critical that we stop the man hiding under the tarp before he destroyes america.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:21
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Vox has an article about previous standoffs, and the FBI's responses over the years. It also explains their tactics as of late and why this will go on for a while. http://www.vox.com/2016/1/5/10714746/waco-ruby-ridge-oregon quote:In 1996, in fact, the FBI got a chance to show off its new and improved approach toward standoffs with extremists, when a group called the Montana Freemen started a standoff with federal officials rather than get evicted from a foreclosed ranch.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:25
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Day 103, the occupiers have grown to a hundred men and 10 truckloads of costco emergency food, which have trickled in over the months through the unblockaded road. while the power from the outside has been cut, the militia is enjoying plentiful electricity from the 12 diesel generators airlifted in on their new air strip, which is now serving regular commercial flights.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:25
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What if they 'find' a BuK antiair system in one of the garages and declare sovereign airspace?
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Jan 6, 2016 18:26
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McDowell posted:What if they 'find' a BuK antiair system in one of the garages and declare sovereign airspace? Well clearly they're just jokes and not a real threat, so the best move would be to supply missiles in an attempt to get them to not shoot down any passing commercial airlines. quote:The FBI hailed the Freemen standoff as a huge victory for its new approach. And it's clearly the playbook the federal government used in its standoff with Cliven Bundy in 2014 — where not only did no one die, but no one was even arrested after the fact. This is not a victory you dumbfucks, this is why you have the Oregon situation, and the one after that, etc.. Talmonis fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 18:30
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Talmonis posted:This is not a victory you dumbfucks, this is why you have the Oregon situation, and the one after that, etc.. yes if only the government cracked down the anti-government militias would surely dissipate and go home
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Jan 6, 2016 18:36
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Maybe the FBI is letting this become some kind of militia honeypot.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:40
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Talmonis posted:This is not a victory you dumbfucks, this is why you have the Oregon situation, and the one after that, etc.. Compared to Ruby Ridge, it's a victory.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:40
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magiccarpet posted:Vox has an article about previous standoffs, and the FBI's responses over the years. It also explains their tactics as of late and why this will go on for a while. I look forward to the day when this innovative law enforcement strategy is applied to more dangerous situations, like an unarmed black person being pulled over for a traffic violation.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:45
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CommieGIR posted:Oh man, they are in trouble now... This is hilarious. I knew these guys would end up pissing off the wrong people, but I didn't think the wrong people would be birdwatchers.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:49
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:Maybe the FBI is letting this become some kind of militia honeypot. The Afghanistan/Syria model of making a honeypot so you can can cull people with radicalization potential. What can go wrong?
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Jan 6, 2016 18:51
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ReidRansom posted:Had never heard of this stuff. And now I'm intrigued. A page back, but It's the worst tasting alcohol imaginable. It has all the flavors of gasoline and burning rubber. Worse yet the taste and feel of it lingers in the back of your mouth lIke a swig of rancid olive oil, and nothing else takes the flavor away except for a good 20 minutes worth of time. Thee companies unofficial motto is "For when you want to unfriend someone in person." You can also look up Malort Face on Google and see people's reactions. It's generally sold around Chicago.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:53
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McDowell posted:The Afghanistan/Syria model of making a honeypot so you can can cull people with radicalization potential. What can go wrong? Dude I'm trying to maintain my sobriety here, okay?
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Jan 6, 2016 18:54
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If someone had so much as tweeted one unverified photo of a single small pistol said to be inside of an Occupy camp, every major news channel would have been screaming their heads off about a communist revolution within the hour.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:58
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OxySnake posted:A page back, but It's the worst tasting alcohol imaginable. It has all the flavors of gasoline and burning rubber. Worse yet the taste and feel of it lingers in the back of your mouth lIke a swig of rancid olive oil, and nothing else takes the flavor away except for a good 20 minutes worth of time. and for all that, it's just 70 proof? really? these chicago lightweights need to try some diesel
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Jan 6, 2016 18:59
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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:Threat of violence, I dunno? In that case the local police should be actively engaged. ChlamydiaJones posted:I'm hoping to understand this; Insanity can't be understood by sane people. Don't hope to understand it because the only way you can is by becoming rabidly insane yourself SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 19:00
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zeal posted:and for all that, it's just 70 proof? really? these chicago lightweights need to try some diesel Look at the fancy city-boy with his branded store-bought grain alcohol.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:03
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:Maybe the FBI is letting this become some kind of militia honeypot. Yes they want the militias to HQ the bird sanctuary prior to JDAMing it
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Jan 6, 2016 19:04
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yes if only the government prefect posted:Compared to Ruby Ridge, it's a victory. I'll agree with that. But it still doesn't excuse why men threatening federal agents with weapons were not subsequently arrested after the situation simmered down and people went home.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:05
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Popular Thug Drink posted:they can shut off power, which is easy to replace. they can't shut off the water, it's an onsite well To add insult to injury, after they've broken, the feds start mailing out letters to them for fines of trespassing, vandalism, and whatever else
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Jan 6, 2016 19:08
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I doubt the people complaining and the people making money selling supplies to the militia are the same people.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:12
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Popular Thug Drink posted:they can shut off power, which is easy to replace. they can't shut off the water, it's an onsite well I think people in general are tired of justice not being served. Simply just barricading them in, not letting them resupply, and arresting them after they give up would make everyone happy. As it looks right now, they aren't even trying to stop them. That looks embarassing to the group, to certain people, but to others it looks like the feds don't want to confront these clowns.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:25
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yes if only the government cracked down the anti-government militias would surely dissipate and go home As opposed to just leaving them alone which as we can see here did wonders at dealing with them such that they wouldn't escalate the situation.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:26
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ReidRansom posted:Had never heard of this stuff. And now I'm intrigued. I love it. I have some friends from Chicago who make it, but Jepson's is a good commercial brand. On the other hand, I drink slivovitz like water, so my tastes are suspect.
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