|
Who What Now posted:As opposed to just leaving them alone which as we can see here did wonders at dealing with them such that they wouldn't escalate the situation. they literally escalated by getting into their trucks and driving an hour to some abandoned shack in the woods preppers are pissed at ammon bundy because he advertised this whole thing as a peaceful protest (where the 150+ militia number comes from) then pulled this takeover poo poo at the last minute hoping to get everyone to shrug and say 'well im here anyway' (and still only got like 15 people)
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 17:11 |
|
|
I like the argument that calling for more police oversight means you oppose the state's monopoly on legitimate force.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Golly gee, you got me there. It sure does suck that our only options are "drone strikes" or "nothing ever" and we can't do things like, say, arrest these kinds of people for the crimes they commit. Oh well. the irony is pretty overwhelming edit: Nonsense posted:And then they did OKC, nobody is going to cry for crazy militia. I mean beyond the whole moral reprehensibility of this line of argument and wild inconsistency with D&D usual consensus on the use of force by agents of the state LGD fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jan 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:You don't see this event involving one of the Bundys as being in any way, shape, or form related to the previous event involving the Bundys? I guess we really do have different perspectives then. If you don't mind my curiosity, what's it like living in a world where every single instant is completely divorced and unrelated to every other instant? i dunno if sarcasm is really the best strategy to employ when you're engaging in baseless speculation about a conspiracy behind two disconnected events lol though that you're asking me "do you really think these anti-government militia guys would engage in two seperate protests against the government?" buttcoinbrony posted:preppers are pissed at ammon bundy because he advertised this whole thing as a peaceful protest (where the 150+ militia number comes from) then pulled this takeover poo poo at the last minute hoping to get everyone to shrug and say 'well im here anyway' (and still only got like 15 people) ah but he did secure the crucual support of revolutionaries Tarp Man, and Sideways Face Guy, and i'm sure a host of colorful rejected mega man bosses who will be capturing the public's hearts in coming weeks
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
Mystic_Shadow posted:They let it burn and decided to shoot anyone trying to escape the fire. And it's still happening 40 years later. Why are urbanites so stuck in the past? Why can't they elect more reasonable moderates like this countryside Oregonian sheriff who isn't kill crazy? Really sad some of the country can't get over their bigotry and violence.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:26
|
|
This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
|
Mystic_Shadow posted:They let it burn and decided to shoot anyone trying to escape the fire. Yeah, that's kind of my point, every time the MOVE bombing is brought up its in the context of  Oh my god the police DROPPED BOMBSBut they were tiny little 1lb breaching charges, what was horrifying about that incident was how they treated the fire, and that never seems to get mentioned. edit: drat that was a bad typo, my brain broke or something Jarmak fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
buttcoinbrony posted:they literally escalated by getting into their trucks and driving an hour to some abandoned shack in the woods Does that somehow make it not a crime? It's good they aren't being raided, it will be bad if they aren't arrested.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
Have the feds gunned down any big left- or right-wing antigovernment movements in the US recently? Kinda seems like they stopped doing that after Waco
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:28
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Does that somehow make it not a crime? It's good they aren't being raided, it will be bad if they aren't arrested. They're just standing up for their rights, if that's a crime...
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:31
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:i dunno if sarcasm is really the best strategy to employ when you're engaging in baseless speculation about a conspiracy behind two disconnected events Disconnected except that it's being carried out by some of the same people, you mean. But I guess I can't argue with your logic of "if you completely ignore how these things are related, they don't seem to be related". LGD posted:Ok but like you have people in this thread advocating that they be maximally prosecuted for crimes that huge numbers of OWS protesters committed because doing so will keep them from being able to disrupt everyday law-abiding citizens with their filthy filthy politics Yeah, people saying the militia should be raided like it's a game of Rainbow Six or CS:GO are retarded. The people saying "just let them go without any consequences at all" are also retarded. The former I can at least understand as being a knee-jerk visceral reaction, the latter I can't see any justification for, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:33
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Does that somehow make it not a crime? It's good they aren't being raided, it will be bad if they aren't arrested. its a crime, but going in WACO TACTICAL STYLE is a PR misstep at this point and the FBI has a bit of institutional knowledge about making this exact mistake the fact that these guys are so hilariously underprepared probably plays into the FBI's decision making process too, this isnt a platoon of highly trained and supplied ex-soldiers, its a bunch of morons asking for snacks on facebook e: i see what youre saying but if you want to arrest them right now, thats a raid the FBI already knows whos there thanks to facebook, media interviews, and the fact that theres like 15 of them, the wheels of justice can afford to turn slowly here
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:33
|
|
|
The exact same assholes from the last standoff with the federal government deciding to stir up more poo poo after getting away with it the first time isn't exactly a conspiracy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Disconnected except that it's being carried out by some of the same people, you mean. But I guess I can't argue with your logic of "if you completely ignore how these things are related, they don't seem to be related".\ "i for one just don't understand how these guys who believe the government is trying to rob them of their land rights could end up at two individual anti-government protests. it just doesn't add up"
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
Talmonis posted:I'll agree with that. But it still doesn't excuse why men threatening federal agents with weapons were not subsequently arrested after the situation simmered down and people went home. Completely agree here. I was surprised to find out that they gave up entirely on arresting Cliven Bundy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:35
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:Yeah, that's kind of my point, every time the MOVE bombing is brought up its in the context of Dropping Breaching Charges (which, let's be honest, by Federal Law would be recognized as 'Bombs) from airplanes counts as dropping bombs. Nice double standard. Note: A Hand Grenade, which is arguably a bomb, has 0.4 lbs of explosive in it (M67). That's a bomb. Oh, but 1lb breaching charges dropped from an airplane, not a bomb. Right.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:35
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Dropping Breaching Charges (which, let's be honest, by Federal Law would be recognized as 'Bombs) from airplanes counts as dropping bombs. Nice double standard. his point was that the bomb was one of the less hosed up parts of that whole situation
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:36
|
|
|
buttcoinbrony posted:his point was that the bomb was one of the less hosed up parts of that whole situation That I can agree with.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:37
|
|
|
prefect posted:Completely agree here. I was surprised to find out that they gave up entirely on arresting Cliven Bundy. Because his case is still ongoing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:38
|
|
|
They really should have just driven up an armored vehicle, teargassed the militia fuckers out, kept the media behind a roadblock X miles from the scene, and been done with it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
quite frankly as an oregon taxpayer im on the hook for OSP overtime either way, id rather we let this play out hilarious and slow
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
Venom Snake posted:Because his case is still ongoing. Is it just a matter of appeals and legitimate fighting in court? If so, that's good to hear.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
Venom Snake posted:Because his case is still ongoing. His case, sure. What about the dozens of armed lunatics pointing guns at Federal agents? They're the ones who should have already been arrested.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:42
|
|
|
Have there been any sort of legal repercussions for any of the people who participated in Bundy Ranch 1.0 as a result of their actions there? Besides the government trying unsuccessfully to build a solid case against Cliven Bundy after almost two years since the standoff, of course.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:42
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Yeah, people saying the militia should be raided like it's a game of Rainbow Six or CS:GO are retarded. The people saying "just let them go without any consequences at all" are also retarded. The former I can at least understand as being a knee-jerk visceral reaction, the latter I can't see any justification for, though. Sure, but I don't see why those consequences would be substantially different from what usually happens (or we feel should happen) when people illegally occupy a public space (such as a park or campus building) as a means of political protest and civil disobedience. Waiting them out and then hitting a few of the ringleaders with a couple trespassing or vandalism charges seems perfectly appropriate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:42
|
|
|
buttcoinbrony posted:its a crime, but going in WACO TACTICAL STYLE is a PR misstep at this point and the FBI has a bit of institutional knowledge about making this exact mistake Yeah, that's fine, I'm happy to let them wait miserably in the dark and cold, and wasting their time and money to do so. Popular Thug Drink posted:"i for one just don't understand how these guys who believe the government is trying to rob them of their land rights could end up at two individual anti-government protests. it just doesn't add up" Yes, that is indeed what you are saying. I understand perfectly well that the outcome of the first "protest" informed their decision to start the second and not that they just happened to be there by coincidence.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
UV_Catastrophe posted:Have there been any sort of legal repercussions for any of the people who participated in Bundy Ranch 1.0 as a result of their actions there? That couple went to a walmart and shot some people (including a good guy with a gun) before realizing they were baddies with guns and offing themselves.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:45
|
|
|
Talmonis posted:His case, sure. What about the dozens of armed lunatics pointing guns at Federal agents? They're the ones who should have already been arrested. Yes they should be arrested but crimes don't exist in a vacuum. If we can wait for them to run out of snacks then arrest them quietly one by one that is far better than rolling up in armored cars and kicking off the Waco Memorial Race War. The government is actually being smart for once, yes it sucks that these white idiots are getting treated more gently than OWS/BLM protesters but as someone said earlier: Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah it's a little disturbing how many people are correctly identifying the racial disparity in dealing with peaceful protests and come to the conclusion "i wish the police would treat these white guys as harshly as they treat black guys" instead of "i wish the police would treat black guys as gently as they treat white guys"
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:46
|
|
|
Looks like the Bundy Bro's have occupied another building.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
LGD posted:Sure, but I don't see why those consequences would be substantially different from what usually happens (or we feel should happen) when people illegally occupy a public space (such as a park or campus building) as a means of political protest and civil disobedience. Waiting them out and then hitting a few of the ringleaders with a couple trespassing or vandalism charges seems perfectly appropriate. Well usually those other protests aren't outright armed sedition by the groups' own words. So that's one difference.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
Vienna Circlejerk posted:The standoff is only 4 days old and already infighting is threatening to destroy the thread.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:well when these dudes take up arms against the government i might agree with you So what are they doing then?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
LeoMarr posted:Looks like the Bundy Bro's have occupied another building. Someone's house?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:48
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Yes, that is indeed what you are saying. I understand perfectly well that the outcome of the first "protest" informed their decision to start the second and not that they just happened to be there by coincidence. You're getting low effort trolled real hard right now. Anyway, I think we should probably just wait it out, but blockade the roads, and then arrest people when they leave. Thanks for reading my post, I hope you enjoyed it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:49
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Someone's house? Looks like a local residents house was just "liberated". CNN posted a picture of the inside of the house, Apparently they stripped off the wood finish. of the flooring. Before:  After: 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:50
|
|
|
What could the Bundy ranch militia be charged with? Is there any recording of them pointing weapons at law enforcement? I know some guy bragged that he did but it'd be hard to convict just based on that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Someone's house? https://youtu.be/taBYlRvYU5I
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:52
|
|
|
LeoMarr posted:Looks like a local residents house was just "liberated". CNN posted a picture of the inside of the house, Apparently they stripped off the wood finish. of the flooring. If the homeowner didn't volunteer this for them, I hope the Feds start looking at this in a different light. Is that the house of load-bearing drywall?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:52
|
|
|
Flavahbeast posted:What could the Bundy ranch militia be charged with? Is there any recording of them pointing weapons at law enforcement? I know some guy bragged that he did but it'd be hard to convict just based on that. Sowing Discontent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:52
|
|
|
Also we can't raid yet, not before PETA shows up.http://www.peta.org/blog/vegan-jerky-to-be-hand-delivered-to-oregon-cattle-ranching-militia/ posted:Vegan Jerky To Be Hand-Delivered to Oregon Cattle-Ranching Militia
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 17:11 |
|
|
LeoMarr posted:Looks like a local residents house was just "liberated". CNN posted a picture of the inside of the house, Apparently they stripped off the wood finish. of the flooring.  In a tragic case of stockholm syndrome, the homeowner has joined up with the militia and began building a series of trenches to defend against the eventual raid
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 20:54
|
|