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Tesseraction posted:Shut off the water mains and enjoy them slowly gassing themselves to death by unflushable toilet. The property is well-supplied, and even if the water went down, you can still flush via bucket, or at the least set up a mouldering/pit toilet. The latter may or may not actually occur to these guys.
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Jan 7, 2016 15:44
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Okay, back-up plan: block the sewer so it reaches an overflowing toilet scenario.
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Jan 7, 2016 15:46
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Nothing more fun than digging a hole in frozen ground to poo poo in. Probably won't shut off the water though, same as electricity. It'll shut it off for surrounding farms and blah blah blah.
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Jan 7, 2016 15:47
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Tesseraction posted:Okay, back-up plan: block the sewer so it reaches an overflowing toilet scenario. I would imagine it is more a septic tank situation.
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Jan 7, 2016 15:51
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I thought pipes like that had to have localised shut-offs in case of a burst?
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Jan 7, 2016 15:53
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Tesseraction posted:I thought pipes like that had to have localised shut-offs in case of a burst? Do you know how a septic tank and field works? It's totally self contained on the property. poo poo runs into settling tank, solids fall to bottom and are broken down by bacteria, liquid runs out into pipes that discharge into a sand filter field which drains to groundwater. You have to clean out the settling tank on occasion, but that's on the course of 5-10 year intervals or something.
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Jan 7, 2016 15:58
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Tesseraction posted:I thought pipes like that had to have localised shut-offs in case of a burst? They aren't on municipal water lines. Their water is fed by a private well (which, in case of a burst you turn the pump off) and their sewer is a septic tank. You can't sabotage either without being on the premises. They can't shut the power off on the compound because there are other homesteads in the area they would be shutting off as well. You'd be punishing everyone on that power line who isn't a militia chucklefuck.
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Jan 7, 2016 15:58
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Tesseraction posted:I thought pipes like that had to have localised shut-offs in case of a burst? They almost certainly have water that comes from a well on site and a septic tank for waste. I'm a city person too but come on.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:01
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Just drop a small JDAM on the tower running to the compound. That gives you the bonus of watching these idiots try to do electrical repair work in negative temperatures. 
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Jan 7, 2016 16:02
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Zamboni_Rodeo posted:Wait a minute. Wait just a goddamned minute. You don't get to discount the federal [read: American] government as a "foreign entity" and then call yourself an "American," you loving asshat. If you're a "sovereign citizen," then you're a visitor on American soil, which makes you an immigrant. Do you have paperwork allowing you to be here? I bet not. The "United States of America" are just that, the United States, while the federal government, aka United States, Inc., is a foreign business incorporated in Puerto Rico (???). Or something.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:04
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Gorilla Salad posted:A whole lot of people are asking why the government isn't blocking off the roads and therefore letting every chucklehead pass freely to and from the reserve. As someone who does a lot of off-roading to hiking spots in desert areas like this (and coincidentally is also surrounded by dumb hicks like these) I'd like to weigh in here. Off roading in places like this usually means at the very least a well beaten path. If you just try to drive over the wilderness there's a huge chance you'll get your fancy 4x4 stuck in a ditch you didn't see or some soft sandy spot. It looks flat, but there are washes everywhere that get dug out by rainfall that can come out of nowhere and can easily be six feet deep. They'll eat just about anything that isn't equipped with tank tracks. As long as they shutoff any existing dirt roads too, I think a blockade would be effective.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:06
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Captain Bravo posted:Just drop a small JDAM on the tower running to the compound. That gives you the bonus of watching these idiots try to do electrical repair work in negative temperatures. But then you have to fix it when you finally clear it out. The more collateral damage you cause is the more collateral damage that needs to be repaired. If you're going fantasy land and want to airdrop anything, you may as well blanket the area in tear gas canisters. If these idiots are begging for snacks and socks I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they didn't pack functioning gas masks.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:07
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As a Millennial I posted:The "United States of America" are just that, the United States, while the federal government, aka United States, Inc., is a foreign business incorporated in Puerto Rico (???). Or something. I like that Dale Gribble, a caricature designed to lampoon sovereign citizens and conspiracy nuts, somehow makes more sense in his ramblings about gold-fringed flags and naval courts than the real deal.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:08
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LogisticEarth posted:septic tank DeathSandwich posted:their sewer is a septic tank Vienna Circlejerk posted:septic tank for waste. I'm a city person too but come on. Well fair enough, I didn't know for certain they had a septic tank. As the building was reported abandoned I wasn't sure what state of disrepair it's in. I just liked the idea of them having to put up with a lovely-liquid covered floor.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:10
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The real reason the feds/state is not going out of their way to cut off power is probably because: 1) The militia has class they have several generators and enough fuel to run them for an extended period. This is potentially true. 2) Shutting off power to the preserve without affecting other neighbors is possible, but time consuming and expensive. 3) Given #1, and #2, shutting off the power won't terribly inconvenience the militia, and also be a costly hassle. All it will do is make them burn fuel. Therefore shutting off the power is a bit of a waste unless we're expecting this to go on into next winter.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:12
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Seeing that photo of the tower from a distance makes me think they really did hatch their plan on the drive to the protest, when they spotted it and got to thinkin'.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:17
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NPR this morning aired soundbites from the concerned citizens. I don't know what I expected. They definitely want the militia out, but they are also definitely sympathetic to their cause. I have no idea how the US manages to have any public lands, national parks or preserves at all since it seems no one can grasp that there is value in natural landscapes other than the resources you can crudely extract from them.Vienna Circlejerk posted:Seeing that photo of the tower from a distance makes me think they really did hatch their plan on the drive to the protest, when they spotted it and got to thinkin'. This is the kind of "common sense" that the right wants to run the country with.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:17
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Don't know if this was posted yet, but the Daily Mail confronted that bodyguard guy who claimed to be a Marine. I love the direct quotesquote:During several encounters with Cavalier - who on one day wore a hat with a badge stating 'major league sniper' on the front - he gave off an air of a long-time serviceman. Adorable.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:18
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quote:head count can't be divulged for security purposes 
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Jan 7, 2016 16:22
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There's only 12 of them in there now aren't there?
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Jan 7, 2016 16:23
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Bast Relief posted:NPR this morning aired soundbites from the concerned citizens. I don't know what I expected. They definitely want the militia out, but they are also definitely sympathetic to their cause. I have no idea how the US manages to have any public lands, national parks or preserves at all since it seems no one can grasp that there is value in natural landscapes other than the resources you can crudely extract from them.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:25
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Bast Relief posted:NPR this morning aired soundbites from the concerned citizens. I don't know what I expected. They definitely want the militia out, but they are also definitely sympathetic to their cause. I have no idea how the US manages to have any public lands, national parks or preserves at all since it seems no one can grasp that there is value in natural landscapes other than the resources you can crudely extract from them. The funny/sad part is, you can extract resources from much of them, you just have to pay for the right to do so. What these people want is the right to swarm over land like locusts, deplete everything, and leave the mess for someone else without paying a dime. There's no shortage of land that you can buy if you just want a farm or whatever, and people buy mining/grazing/logging rights on federal land all the time.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:28
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As a Millennial I posted:Don't know if this was posted yet, but the Daily Mail confronted that bodyguard guy who claimed to be a Marine. I love the direct quotes According to police records, Cavalier, from Arizona, has been arrested several times for DUI and one case of 'extreme DUI' in Arizona. Does that mean he got drunk on a skateboard?
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Jan 7, 2016 16:31
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Protip: It's going to be difficult to conceal your identity with tattooed eyelids.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:36
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Yeah when you listen to these guys it's clear that they consider "public" to mean anyone can do whatever they want to these lands without oversight. Since everyone "owns" them, if they want to gently caress them up for personal gain they should be able to and can't comprehend that other people who "own" those lands might want the exact opposite so you can't have both. Like with most of these kinds of people it's a purely selfish ideology with no thought in it other than MINE.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:38
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prefect posted:According to police records, Cavalier, from Arizona, has been arrested several times for DUI and one case of 'extreme DUI' in Arizona. I never heard of this so I looked it up. Apparently "extreme dui" is a BAC of .15 to .1999, and there's even a "super extreme dui" for over .2 BAC. Not sure if this is just Arizona or if other states have it.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:39
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It's funny when you think about how much privatization of federal lands would gently caress over most of the people who are demanding it. If you're a rancher and you own a lot of land, you're going to be loving your freedom when the bottom drops out of the local real estate market and you lose most of the equity you've been building. Maybe ranching is different but farmers basically make their money by paying off their mortgages.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:47
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DeathSandwich posted:If these idiots are begging for snacks and socks I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they didn't pack functioning gas masks. They're militia. They each brought their favorite gasmask and a backup, and forgot how to learn how to build a fire.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:55
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Mormon Star Wars posted:The issue isn't that people want a raid to happen for redneck blood, the issue is that the "and a couple of months afterwards they will be arrested or fined" never happens. In the Bundy Ranch incident people literally threatened reporters and townsfolk and there were no arrests or fines, everyone just went home realizing that they can do whatever the gently caress they want with no consequences at all. Well, the Bundy militia people didn't go home after the standoff. They stuck around for at least a month, camping out on Bundy's ranch to protect him and running wild in the local area (including stuff like setting up checkpoints on nearby roads) while the local sheriff refused to get involved and loudly blamed everyone but himself for the standoff. Most of them went home after they ran out of money and crowdfunding sites shut down their attempts to crowdfund their expenses, but there's probably a couple still hanging around. Federal investigations take a long time, and the feds typically refuse to confirm or deny their existence until charges are filed. The FBI investigation of the Alaska Peacemakers Militia (whose founder was eventually sentenced to 26 years for various weapons charges and conspiracy to commit murder) took 20 months, and that was a centralized group with a defined structure and their own weapons caches. On the other hand, they're almost certainly wary of pulling the trigger too early, since the Bundy standoff people didn't actually do anything more than stand around with guns and chat about shooting federal agents. Many would argue that that is more than enough, but the Feds are likely wary of a repeat of the Hutaree militia case (a two-year investigation into a radical Christian militia which believed that law enforcement was "Satan's Army", was amassing a cache of illegal weapons, and talked about going to war to overthrow the tyranny of the government), where a judge disagreed and dismissed the charges as not concrete, saying that "Vague antigovernment hate speech simply does not amount to an agreement [to violently overthrow the government] as a matter of law". It's likely that the government is monitoring the Bundy standoff guys and looking for something more solid to charge them with, since they have a federal judge's ruling that a shared "strong dislike – perhaps hatred – of the Federal Government and law enforcement at every level", "desire to spark a war with the federal government", and a desire to "harm or kill law enforcement agents" do not amount to "concrete agreement to forcibly oppose the United States Government". Failing to charge militia members may hurt the government's image, but hauling them into court only for a judge to throw the whole thing out as "protected speech" is a whole lot more damaging, and there's no way the FBI will risk that again anytime soon. They won't charge anyone till there's an ironclad case. Iowa Snow King posted:Why is the Sheriff the level of authority they're willing to accept? Sheriffs are usually locally-elected good old boys who went to the same high school as them and therefore are much more likely to cut them a break or look the other way or hold the same fringe beliefs they do.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:12
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Main Paineframe posted:Well, the Bundy militia people didn't go home after the standoff. They stuck around for at least a month, camping out on Bundy's ranch to protect him and running wild in the local area (including stuff like setting up checkpoints on nearby roads) while the local sheriff refused to get involved and loudly blamed everyone but himself for the standoff. Most of them went home after they ran out of money and crowdfunding sites shut down their attempts to crowdfund their expenses, but there's probably a couple still hanging around. Eh, you're making the Bundy Ranch incident more complicated than it actually is. They weren't just a bunch of hillbillies with guns walking around. They specifically said they were planning on using them on any one who tried to show up on the ranch. Bundy owed $1 million in grazing fees to the government, so they were already justified in taking his dumb rear end to court/jail. The fact that he and his ilk threatened blatantly threatened violence to any law enforcement should just be icing.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:28
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Main Paineframe posted:
Pretty much this. They don't respect state/federal authority because "You ain't from 'round here, boy."
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Jan 7, 2016 17:30
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Serious question----do none of these 'bird watchers' own a high-powered rifle?
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Jan 7, 2016 17:31
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Astrofig posted:Serious question----do none of these 'bird watchers' own a high-powered rifle? Because that's what this situation needs: Vigilante-on-militia frontier justice.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:32
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Photographers generally use their equipment to bludgeon people to death.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:33
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DeathSandwich posted:Because that's what this situation needs: Vigilante-on-militia frontier justice. They are a parasitic species; killing them removes nothing of value. Also, somebody set up a site to help send these inbreds lube. http://www.sendky.com/
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Jan 7, 2016 17:35
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fosborb posted:They're militia. They each brought their favorite gasmask and a backup, and forgot how to learn how to build a fire. I had a roommate in college who was convinced that Obama would bring about the end times. He had a pyramid of 20 cans of pork and beans next to his stack of Left Behind: The Kids books, a stockpile of silver, and although we never saw his gun, I did find several ziploc baggies full of loose ammunition in his desk drawer. He tried to cook literally once the entire year. He put unseasoned steaks in a 450 degree oven for half an hour. As I tried to saw through the vulcanized meat, he proudly boasted that his friend was going to throw them out, but they had only expired a week ago. I don't know if this is really relevant. I just love telling this story. DeathSandwich posted:Because that's what this situation needs: Vigilante-on-militia frontier justice. As long as the vigilantes are We The People of Oregon, they're simply protecting their land when their Sheriff won't, in his Dereliction Of Duty.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:51
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Watching this story plummet in online news coverage makes me think the feds are onto something with their lack of response. These guys want headlines but how do you get headlines when there isn't anything to take a picture of, not even a barricade, for this "standoff", just some jackass hiding under a tarp?
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Jan 7, 2016 17:54
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Mormon Star Wars posted:The issue isn't that people want a raid to happen for redneck blood, the issue is that the "and a couple of months afterwards they will be arrested or fined" never happens. In the Bundy Ranch incident people literally threatened reporters and townsfolk and there were no arrests or fines, everyone just went home realizing that they can do whatever the gently caress they want with no consequences at all. Because the case is still ongoing.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:03
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Mr Interweb posted:Eh, you're making the Bundy Ranch incident more complicated than it actually is. They weren't just a bunch of hillbillies with guns walking around. They specifically said they were planning on using them on any one who tried to show up on the ranch. Bundy owed $1 million in grazing fees to the government, so they were already justified in taking his dumb rear end to court/jail. The fact that he and his ilk threatened blatantly threatened violence to any law enforcement should just be icing.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:07
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"Oh man I can't wait until the hammer comes down on these guys! Boy howdy are they facing SERIOUS prison time and fines!!" *four days later* "Oh man I hope that guy eventually reads these forums and sees how we made fun of his cowboy hat!!"
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Jan 7, 2016 18:10
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