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quote:(including stuff like setting up checkpoints on nearby roads) On public roads? I thought that was just a rumor. Astrofig posted:Serious question----do none of these 'bird watchers' own a high-powered rifle? See, if we were arresting people for speech at the drop of a hat like some posters salivate over, you might be in deep poo poo under a Republican admin. The judge in the Hutaree militia case had the right idea. But I guess it's different when your team does it. 
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Jan 7, 2016 18:12
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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DeathSandwich posted:They aren't on municipal water lines. Their water is fed by a private well (which, in case of a burst you turn the pump off) and their sewer is a septic tank. You can't sabotage either without being on the premises. I call bullshit on this here. Are you telling me there is no powerlines running from the road? Is this the only place in existence where the power is daisy chained like loving Christmas lights from house to house and then just ends at the last local farm in the chain instead of off shooting from a string of power lines? Not from the neighbors. How does this thing even work?
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Jan 7, 2016 18:16
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I agree it's time to upgrade that poo poo. Then Cut it off.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:18
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DeusExMachinima posted:On public roads? I thought that was just a rumor. You might have half a point if the above poster and his friends were training and arming themselves in preparation for action. Words are just pissing into the wind, it's the prep that makes it a problem to be solved before they can act. The judge was wrong.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:21
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Also militias forfeited their right to not be made fun of when thy killed hundreds in Oklahoma City. That little fact isn't going to go away, they will always be responsible.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:23
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DeusExMachinima posted:See, if we were arresting people for speech at the drop of a hat like some posters salivate over, you might be in deep poo poo under a Republican admin. The judge in the Hutaree militia case had the right idea. But I guess it's different when your team does it.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:24
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the trump tutelage posted:Now, now. I'm sure the posters calling for excessive state violence to be perpetrated against these militia guys are the same ones who dissemble about "justified" shootings in the police brutality threads. but i'm not asking for a raid! i just want hundreds of agents to physically cordon off the site, costing millions and giving the militia the theatrical camera grabbing standoff they so desperately crave
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Jan 7, 2016 18:29
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"I think all the fines should be forgiven and the dudes who committed arson fully pardoned. I mean, why spend law enforcement resources on these peaceful white men? They're white, they mean no harm." - half the posters in this thread
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Jan 7, 2016 18:29
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:I think they would jump at the chance to justify the extra thousands of dollars they spent for 4 wheel drive. Also some of these people really are ranchers and probably actually use their vehicles off road all the time. I think the strategic reason for closing roads off would be to prevent resupply. They've been sleeping in their trucks too and eventually somebody's gonna need to go to the store for gas. Prevent outside people from coming in and then detain/arrest anyone that goes into town and through attrition something will give without needing to even set foot in the place.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:30
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Radbot posted:"I think all the fines should be forgiven and the dudes who committed arson fully pardoned. I mean, why spend law enforcement resources on these peaceful white men? They're white, they mean no harm." - half the posters in this thread
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Jan 7, 2016 18:30
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the trump tutelage posted:[citation needed] See the post above mine. Apparently we should stop enforcing laws if it's too inconvenient. I'm sure PTD will then post "why do you want nazi jackbooted cops STORMING in there at the cost of BILLIONS and just giving them everything they want you loving fascist"
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Jan 7, 2016 18:31
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Nonsense posted:Also militias forfeited their right to not be made fun of when thy killed hundreds in Oklahoma City. That little fact isn't going to go away, they will always be responsible. Speaking of which, I was really young when the OKC bombing happened, what was the right-wing reaction during the time?
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Jan 7, 2016 18:32
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DeusExMachinima posted:On public roads? I thought that was just a rumor. We are arresting people for speech at the drop of a hat, BTW, there are people facing years in prison for tweets the government considers pro-ISIS, right this moment.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:32
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Radbot posted:"I think all the fines should be forgiven and the dudes who committed arson fully pardoned. I mean, why spend law enforcement resources on these peaceful white men? They're white, they mean no harm." - half the posters in this thread Also this. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 7, 2016 18:33
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DeusExMachinima posted:On public roads? I thought that was just a rumor. The local Congressional representative said so, at least. As far as I can tell, the media had largely lost interest by then, so no journalist actually went and confirmed it for themselves one way or the other.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:33
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Duke Igthorn posted:I call bullshit on this here. Are you telling me there is no powerlines running from the road? Is this the only place in existence where the power is daisy chained like loving Christmas lights from house to house and then just ends at the last local farm in the chain instead of off shooting from a string of power lines? Not from the neighbors. How does this thing even work? From what I can see, it's a legit claim. I work in the GIS department of a major electric utility, specifically mapping the distribution network. I have worked on a couple of massive data clean up projects where we end up relying on Street view & aerial imagery to verify facilities in the field. Since we serve a huge portion of the middle of nowhere Western US, the imagery available to us for these areas isn't very high quality. As a result I have become really good at identifying equipment on poles, and how power is delivered from grainy rear end photos. When the claim was made that they couldn't shut off power to the Visitor's Center without affecting other customers I was leery. Without looking, I assumed they were on a single phase tap line. Those lines are usually protected by a fuse at the tap, so to kill power you'd just open the fuse. I decided to see if Google had driven those roads or not, they did, in 2009. So the data is 6 years old and the photos are not great. From what I can see they get service from transformer on a 3 phase trunk line. This means that there is no easy way to cut service that does not affect other customers. And since this is a small, rural coop utility with little growth in the area, I don't expect much has changed in 6 years.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:36
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Radbot posted:See the post above mine. Apparently we should stop enforcing laws if it's too inconvenient. Your entire argument boils down to "police overreact in all of these other cases, so they should do it now" which is really solving the wrong problem.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:37
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The Feds should just camp out in their abandoned homes on the prairie.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:38
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Radbot posted:See the post above mine. Apparently we should stop enforcing laws if it's too inconvenient. I dunno if you're elaborating based on what he's said elsewhere in the thread, but on its face, it doesn't say what you say it's saying.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:38
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Salt Fish posted:Your entire argument boils down to "police overreact in all of these other cases, so they should do it now" which is really solving the wrong problem. no, it neatly solves the problem of "i want my ideological opponents to be punished on television, giving me spiritual catharsis"
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Jan 7, 2016 18:39
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Popular Thug Drink posted:no, it neatly solves the problem of "i want my ideological opponents to be punished on television, giving me spiritual catharsis" Or even "white militias are dangerous and should be suppressed with violence"
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Jan 7, 2016 18:41
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SedanChair posted:Or even "white militias are dangerous and should be suppressed with violence" Or even "I can't get my rocks off without seeing someone shot on live TV"
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Jan 7, 2016 18:42
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Radbot posted:"I think all the fines should be forgiven and the dudes who committed arson fully pardoned. I mean, why spend law enforcement resources on these peaceful white men? They're white, they mean no harm." - half the posters in this thread If the law enforcement didn't stupidly allow people to bring them food and other supplies they would probably stand down after a couple of days.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:46
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"Excessive state violence is a problem, but a more pressing problem is that excessive state violence isn't directed at my opponents."
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Jan 7, 2016 18:48
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MaxxBot posted:If the law enforcement didn't stupidly allow people to bring them food and other supplies they would probably stand down after a couple of days. I'm gonna be fair here, and say that the police consider these people to be huge whiny jerks, who's whining will lead them to ending in less than 20 days. I think if they had the local community's overall support, and you started seeing more and more fools like this pull a similiar stunt, then I would agree with you, and wonder why the gently caress they aren't hamburger yet, but I think this is the correct approach, they can't kill boredom with snacks and boring meat.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:49
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the trump tutelage posted:"Excessive state violence is a problem, but a more pressing problem is that excessive state violence isn't directed at my opponents." "Black Lives Matter and white militias are equal, and merit equal responses."
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Jan 7, 2016 18:51
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highme posted:From what I can see, it's a legit claim. Popular Thug Drink posted:no, it neatly solves the problem of "i want my ideological opponents to be punished on television, giving me spiritual catharsis"
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Jan 7, 2016 18:53
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the trump tutelage posted:"Excessive state violence is a problem, but a more pressing problem is that excessive state violence isn't directed at my opponents." State violence is directed at unarmed non-lawbreakers, rather than heavily-armed crazy people.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:54
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cheerfullydrab posted:State violence is directed at unarmed non-lawbreakers, rather than heavily-armed crazy people. This, plus; If you don't see that as a problem, you're hosed in the head.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:56
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cheerfullydrab posted:State violence is directed at unarmed non-lawbreakers, rather than heavily-armed crazy people. yes i also don't understand why the police may be more hesitant to confront quote heavily armed crazy people unquote
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Jan 7, 2016 19:01
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MaxxBot posted:If the law enforcement didn't stupidly allow people to bring them food and other supplies they would probably stand down after a couple of days. What? You want law enforcement to spend money doing their job? Look at Hitler Jr. over here, thinking these poor, misunderstood, gentle white folks should be inconvenienced in the slightest.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:02
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yes i also don't understand why the police may be more hesitant to confront quote heavily armed crazy people unquote That is, quite literally, their job.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:04
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SedanChair posted:"Black Lives Matter and white militias are equal," quote:"and merit equal responses."
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Jan 7, 2016 19:06
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yes i also don't understand why the police may be more hesitant to confront quote heavily armed crazy people unquote Well then they need to return all those MRAPs and SWAT teams
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Jan 7, 2016 19:06
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Radbot posted:See the post above mine. Apparently we should stop enforcing laws if it's too inconvenient. Why not, you did the same thing to him. It's the middle of loving nowhere where they're doing absolutely gently caress poo poo nothing and will eventually disperse because all of them are ranchers, businessmen, etc. While they might get supplies, being away from their work is severely loving up their lives and they all know it. Wasting millions to escalate this is kind of stupid. All it'd do is give these fuckers the attention they want while doing exactly what's already happening on its own. then after they disperse the fines and punishments can be leveled on the fuckers
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Jan 7, 2016 19:07
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Heavily armed men threatening violence to anyone who tries to stop their actual crime in progress warrants a larger response than unarmed protestors yelling about how police murder them indiscriminately. This shouldn't be controversial.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:09
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Talmonis posted:That is, quite literally, their job. in this reality there's actually a lot of precendent for allowing armed militias who hole up in the middle of nowehere to remain holed up until they decide taking themselves hostage is boring. turns out cops don't like getting shot at and if someone's like "we're going to stay here in this little bunker miles from nowhere and if you try to come dig us out we'll shoot at you" the most rational response is "ok have fun" it's not like there's nazi gold or the on/off button for rule of law hidden in that welcome center. the only thing they're really accomplishing is driving authoritarian liberals up the wall so i hope this plays out as long as possible
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Jan 7, 2016 19:09
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Guys I don't think the people who are are the ones advocating for deescalation of police violence in all cases are the ones being logically and ethically inconsistent here.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:09
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Talmonis posted:Heavily armed men threatening violence to anyone who tries to stop their actual crime in progress warrants a larger response than unarmed protestors yelling about how police murder them indiscriminately. This shouldn't be controversial. "hey, if you try to stop me from staying in this place where i'm no threat to anyone and i can't go anywhere, i'll shoot you" "ok, sounds good to me, let me go try and stop you so you can shoot at me"
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Jan 7, 2016 19:11
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