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Talmonis posted:Heavily armed men threatening violence to anyone who tries to stop their actual crime in progress warrants a larger response than unarmed protestors yelling about how police murder them indiscriminately. This shouldn't be controversial. It's mind-boggling that this is controversial. Are some of you guys robots?
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Jan 7, 2016 19:12
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Popular Thug Drink posted:in this reality there's actually a lot of precendent for allowing armed militias who hole up in the middle of nowehere to remain holed up until they decide taking themselves hostage is boring. turns out cops don't like getting shot at and if someone's like "we're going to stay here in this little bunker miles from nowhere and if you try to come dig us out we'll shoot at you" the most rational response is "ok have fun" Additionally the 1 thing these men want most is to get into a violent confrontation. Why would you give a criminal the thing they want most? Just arrest them later once they've gone back to work.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:13
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SocketWrench posted:then after they disperse the fines and punishments can be leveled on the fuckers sure they will
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Jan 7, 2016 19:13
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Salt Fish posted:Additionally the 1 thing these men want most is to get into a violent confrontation. Why would you give a criminal the thing they want most? Just arrest them later once they've gone back to work. but it's not faaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Jan 7, 2016 19:14
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Popular Thug Drink posted:"hey, if you try to stop me from staying in this place where i'm And yeah, the place where they're at is completely unimportant, except that some native Americans claim it has important documents held for them. But why should you give a poo poo about them?
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Jan 7, 2016 19:16
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Talmonis posted:Heavily armed men threatening violence to anyone who tries to stop their actual crime in progress warrants a larger response than unarmed protestors yelling about how police murder them indiscriminately. This shouldn't be controversial. How about we don't give them the confrontation they want, or create the martyrs their movement needs, and deal with this situation sanely and with a view to winning the long game. 
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Jan 7, 2016 19:17
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Who What Now posted:And yeah, the place where they're at is completely unimportant, except that some native Americans claim it has important documents held for them. But why should you give a poo poo about them? Because it doesn't make sense to put dozens of lives in danger over some papers?
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Jan 7, 2016 19:20
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Who What Now posted:And yeah, the place where they're at is completely unimportant, except that some native Americans claim it has important documents held for them. But why should you give a poo poo about them? Have those documents been harmed in any way? Are you incredibly upset when OWS protesters and students conducting sit-ins disrupt local commerce, institutional functions, private events, and local enjoyment of public spaces? Armed civil disobedience is apparently the only genuinely transgressive form of political protest left. LGD fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 19:21
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zeal posted:sure they will Yeah, we know, because the law should move quick, build a lovely case, and then fall on their face when they fail so we can yell at them for doing what we told them to do.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:21
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Popular Thug Drink posted:"hey, if you try to stop me from staying in this place where i'm no threat to anyone and i can't go anywhere, i'll shoot you" So if a group of Chinese nationals decides to raise the PRC flag over the Alamo, claiming it in the name of China and threatens to shoot anyone who goes near the place, the Federal government and law enforcement should just let them be until they get bored? How about if a mass group of radicalized Muslim-Americans decide that ISIS is the beez neez, and take over Yellowstone National Park. Best to ignore it eh? Because this is little different. Nobody is hurt in any case depicted here. All claim Federal property as theirs at gunpoint.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:22
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the trump tutelage posted:How about we don't give them the confrontation they want, or create the martyrs their movement needs, and deal with this situation sanely and with a view to winning the long game. Apparently if you just say "I want you to arrest me!" before committing a crime police are powerless to stop you or even inconvenience you in any way. Who would have thought that SovCits were right all along and there are in fact magic words to make cops go away*. *magic words only apply to white people
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Jan 7, 2016 19:23
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Talmonis posted:So if a group of Chinese nationals decides to raise the PRC flag over the Alamo, claiming it in the name of China and threatens to shoot anyone who goes near the place, the Federal government and law enforcement should just let them be until they get bored? How about if a mass group of radicalized Muslim-Americans decide that ISIS is the beez neez, and take over Yellowstone National Park. Best to ignore it eh? Because this is little different. Nobody is hurt in any case depicted here. All claim Federal property as theirs at gunpoint. Hm, what if we were human beings with brains and could intelligently appraise each situations pros and cons? Nah, rules are rules, kill them all, obey or die.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:23
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SocketWrench posted:Yeah, we know, because the law should move quick, build a lovely case, and then fall on their face when they fail so we can yell at them for doing what we told them to do. Seems to work just fine against unarmed college students and black men.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:23
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Popular Thug Drink posted:but it's not faaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrr Only the thought of white men being arrested appears to inflame you with thoughts of fairness.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:24
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Talmonis posted:Seems to work just fine against unarmed college students and black men. Why can't we raise the bar up instead of lowering all situations down to the most flagrant human rights violations?
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Jan 7, 2016 19:24
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Salt Fish posted:Hm, what if we were human beings with brains and could intelligently appraise each situations pros and cons? Good thing nobody is calling for violence. But a response beyond "no no no, please don't do that you naught boys." on TV would be nice.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:24
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Talmonis posted:Good thing nobody is calling for violence. But a response beyond "no no no, please don't do that you naught boys." on TV would be nice. What non-violent outcome is possible if police decide that they must end this stand off today?
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Jan 7, 2016 19:25
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Talmonis posted:Good thing nobody is calling for violence. But a response beyond "no no no, please don't do that you naught boys." on TV would be nice. I'm calling for their immediate arrest and hoping there is no violence. However, them being arrested is more important than there being no violence.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:26
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Salt Fish posted:What non-violent outcome is possible if police decide that they must end this stand off today? who, precisely, is arguing in favor of that approach with you?
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Jan 7, 2016 19:27
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SedanChair posted:I'm calling for their immediate arrest and hoping there is no violence. However, them being arrested is more important than there being no violence. Why is arresting them today more valuable then arresting them in a month? They serve the same sentence but one outcome is far less likely to involve people being killed. Do you place no value at all on the life of a criminal or the life of a police officer?
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Jan 7, 2016 19:27
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No reason to confront them directly but I also see no particular reason to stand idly by as people truck food and supplies in there.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:29
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zeal posted:who, precisely, is arguing in favor of that approach with you? SedanChair posted:I'm calling for their immediate arrest and hoping there is no violence. However, them being arrested is more important than there being no violence.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:29
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Salt Fish posted:Why can't we raise the bar up instead of lowering all situations down to the most flagrant human rights violations? Prosecuting rioters is not a rights violation. If they've broken the law, they get prosecuted. That should go for anyone, and works pretty swiftly for unarmed college students and black men who actually break the law. Salt Fish posted:
Who put "Today" as an arbitrary condition? No, you prohibit their movement and ability to retain supplies. Find a way to cut the power to them without hurting the rest of the community. Actually show that you give a gently caress about what they're doing, instead of just letting them run ramshod all over the community and make a mockery of the Federal Government.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:29
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They're not trucking supplies in, calm down. It's like a few boxes, and blogs sending them garbage, people do want them to leave.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:30
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Salt Fish posted:Why can't we raise the bar up instead of lowering all situations down to the most flagrant human rights violations?
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Jan 7, 2016 19:31
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Who What Now posted:And yeah, the place where they're at is completely unimportant, except that some native Americans claim it has important documents held for them. But why should you give a poo poo about them? i'm such a racist, not considering the feelings of the paiute nation's tax returns
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Jan 7, 2016 19:33
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Salt Fish posted:Why is arresting them today more valuable then arresting them in a month? To keep things fresh in a bigot's head. quote:They serve the same sentence but one outcome is far less likely to involve people being killed. Do you place no value at all on the life of a criminal or the life of a police officer? I place no value on the lives of white militia members. Do you?
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Jan 7, 2016 19:33
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These guys don't have anti-tank mines and RPG's as far as I know so I don't see why they couldn't be taken peacefully by just driving an APC up and unload a bunch of cops in riot gear to pacify them.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:35
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SedanChair posted:To keep things fresh in a bigot's head. Has the revolution started? No? Then yes, I still value human life.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:36
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LGD posted:Are you incredibly upset when OWS protesters and students conducting sit-ins disrupt local commerce, institutional functions, private events, and local enjoyment of public spaces? If they were armed, I'd have had a serious problem with it...That and they'd all be dead right now.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:37
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Jan 7, 2016 19:37
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Gorilla Salad posted:A whole lot of people are asking why the government isn't blocking off the roads and therefore letting every chucklehead pass freely to and from the reserve. Mad max was a good game
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Jan 7, 2016 19:37
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Venom Snake posted:These guys don't have anti-tank mines and RPG's as far as I know so I don't see why they couldn't be taken peacefully by just driving an APC up and unload a bunch of cops in riot gear to pacify them. Exactly, there's little risk. They'd be too busy crying and recording vlogs about how "this isn't America anymore" to shoulder a weapon. Perhaps a few of the most unhinged hangers-on like that serial drunk-driving tattoo artist would try to fight, that's what bullets are for.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:40
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Edit: wrong thread
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Jan 7, 2016 19:41
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I bet that tarp is selling like crazy on amazon.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:42
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Nonsense posted:I bet that tarp is selling like crazy on amazon. I've already started work on my Tarp Guy Halloween costume
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Jan 7, 2016 19:43
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Talmonis posted:If they were armed, I'd have had a serious problem with it...That and they'd all be dead right now. Why do you have such a serious problem with it given that it isn't doing demonstrable harm or actually endangering public safety? And actual history would indicate that isn't necessarily the case- moreover why do you seem to want it to be the case?
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Jan 7, 2016 19:44
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None of the goofy teahadists have anything larger than a .50 bmg. Drive up an MRAP or other armored vehicle and tear gas them, queue "patriots" puking their guts out and weeping.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:46
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Potential BFF posted:None of the goofy teahadists have anything larger than a .50 bmg. Drive up an MRAP or other armored vehicle and tear gas them, queue "patriots" puking their guts out and weeping. Hmm yes no precedent for this tactic resulting in a massacre with deaths on both sides. Nope, not at all.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:51
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At the risk of appropriating PTD's gimmick from another thread. .. Considering their demographics and the number of guns they have with them, there is a good chance these guys will just shoot themselves given enough time.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:53
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